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All Eyes on the Future! (896)

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
this late in the region Ash having a pokemon with type immunity in a gym is a no-no.

They want Ash to have a challenging time getting his badges, from what I saw if we got Greninja here, those two kitties would've been dead to rights since their best moves would've been sealed to do any damage.

Of course there's always the alternative...remember what happened when Ash sent Torterra against Volkner?
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Ash and Serena are using the ORAS Pokedex now which is somewhat weird. You'd think the connection to X&Y with Z coming would reestablish the Kalos game's inspiration.

I don't think the third versions pokedex design was ever different from the first versions designs...
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand why you think an evolution during a gym battle is the ONLY way Frogadier evolving could have meaning.
Because its the only way that it could have impact.

Not going to care if it evolves against Byrony's Bisharp, not going to care if it evolves against Grovyle/Sceptile, against Tierno. Evolving to save Ash might be expected but not really impactful.

Look at what everyone is saying the battle in of itself was amazing. There will never be any of this type of battle any time soon. Olympia was the BEST way Frogadier could evolve, but....now? I only perceive a lesser quality evolution serving no ultimate purpose then to "state" what we already knew.


However, do you realize that if it had happened we'd have people complaining that Ash only won because he happened to suddenly gain a pokemon immune to Psychic attacks in the middle of the gym match? I'm glad the writers avoided that at least this time.
Not my fault people don't understand how Pokemon Anime works.

But as I've said, evolving after defeating Meowstic would've just been fine, an ultimate reward, for defeating Meowstic.

But my point for evolving mid battle, was to show the bond between Ash and Frogadier in the only impactful way that it could've happened.

Now we won't get a battle that actually hinges on Ash's participation and winning until Wulfric, and we all can conclude Ash will have Greninja by that point.

Olympia was a very big obstacle to overcome, but they didn't use that to reward Frogadier or to show off the strength between Pokemon and trainer by there being an evolution.

Instead all we got was an amazing double battle, which would've been even more amazing had they not shoved Ash Greninja in my face.
 
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Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
XY is definitely the new AG, there even was something similar to thunder armor, as well as it being a tag battle in this gym battle episode

After watching this episode, I have to admit even I liked this gym battle; it's probably the best in XY as of right now. the ending of the battle reminded me of the Gohan/Goku Kamehameha struggle against Cell in DBZ. The bgm and animation in this episode was great as well. The only problem I have with the episode was Pikachu timing the future sight attack when Ash asked it to; isn't that technically cheating?

Anyways I rate this episode 8.5/10
 
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Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
It was fantastic, so much that I really wpnder how Wulfric can top this.
That may be a tall order, after all I think Wulfric is the ONLY gym leader in-game to tell the player their gym can be the easiest one to beat. ^_^

I hope though that Avalug gets presented as a defensive juggernaut that only goes down through a ton of super effective moves.

Now we won't get a battle that actually hinges on Ash's participation and winning until Wulfric, and we all can conclude Ash will have Greninja by that point.
Okay, so you're saying the evolution is only meaningful if attached to a battle that hinges on league participation? That seems to be an awfully narrow definition. You also mention it can be meaningful as a display of the strength of a bond, but that can occur in a variety of battle and non-battle situations.

Frankly if it evolves to save Ash's life for instance would be more meaningful than any gym match.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
The only problem I have with the episode was Pikachu timing the future sight attack when Ash asked it to; isn't that technically cheating?

I don't see how, Pikachu didn't directly influence the gym battle.

It'd be no different then if Clemont was to shout to Ash "Time's Up!" and then Ash doing the same thing he did.

All Pikachu was time Future Sight and tell Ash when it was done. I can't imagine how that would be considered cheating in regards to Pokemon Battling.
 

phanpycross

God-king
OKAY BUT REAL TALK? BEST GYM BATTLE I THINK (If I ignore the emotional impact Clemont vs Ash had on me) so far.

Ash was probably at his best here, constantly keeping on his toes and thinking of new ways to counter the **** Olympia sets up (LIKE DEFLECTING SAID ATTACKS AND REDIRECTING THEM TO HIT THE OPPONENTS AHH SO GOOD), I think the thing he did with Pikachu was interesting and a smart idea but im not sure about the f. Olympia herself was very well shown here I think, she was threatening, never letting Ash rest with her relentless attacks, I was honestly on the edge of my seat the entire time watching this because I genuinely did not know how the match would end. Im glad it ended how it did tbh, I had my worries Talonflame would eat **** and they would put Frogadier on a pedestal but no they got equal badassery fueled moments.

Speaking of, im glad to see that Talonflame and Frogadier worked so well together, they made for a powerful team. there were so many badass combinations and such that I couldnt list them all here but my favorite has to be the flame charge/cut combination, that was glorious. Not even the Ash Greninja moment I dreaded was anything worth complaining about because it didnt have an actual factor in the battle and was just more XYZ foresadowing. And im fine with that.

Like I honestly not think of a bad thing to say about this Gym, everything was done PERFECTLY to me. The animation, the music, the strategy, the intensity, just all 10/10, god bless this episode. I dont know how the hell Wulfric will top this.
Amen to all this, I dont think Im even able to count how many sick moments this battle had. The Cut-Flame Charge, slinging the meowstics, Talonflame going through the fog with BB, the two eating attacks for each other, the dbZ(Clever) references, everything had me in pure bliss.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Okay, so you're saying the evolution is only meaningful if attached to a battle that hinges on league participation?
Does it matter if the very next episode were to hypothetically be Ash vs Tierno? No, will it have any meaningful impact? No. Will Ash have to re-challenge Tierno for a gym badge, no? Did Tierno make a life or death condition that if Ash loses the entire world will be destroyed, so Ash must win.....no.

You also mention it can be meaningful as a display of the strength of a bond, but that can occur in a variety of battle and non-battle situations.
Except it wouldn't, the bond between Pokemon and trainer only matters on the value and how vital a battle/situation truly is. Olympia was a gym leader, Ash needed a badge from Olympia (in this example) to move on with his own current goal of entering the Pokemon league.

True Ash could lose and rechallenge Olympia, but rematches tend to have less impact only in "certain" cases does the rematch fare better than the original match (if the original wasn't good to begin with).

Take this battle, any rematch would've been lesser quality. This battle was already top notch that it would've been an amazing loss had Frogadier and Talonflame not made it.

But the rematch wouldn't have been able to top it, it would have to be pretty much exactly the same but with a different outcome, and as a result NOT as meaningful.

Frankly if it evolves to save Ash's life for instance would be more meaningful than any gym match.
It wouldn't be as meaningful because they could've easily made it so Frogadier didn't have to evolve to save Ash. There's no instance I can think of where Frogadier needs to evolve to legitimately save Ash. Thus not meaningful. Now if we were talking about Ash's hypothetical Ivysaur evolving into Venusaur, and we know that Ivysaur can't save Ash on its own because Ash weighs more than Ivysaur can lift, then I can see your point.

Unfortunately does not apply to Frogadier/Greninja. At best, Frogadier would have to evolve to avoid "dying" kind of like Fletchinder into Talonflame.

But the issue comes from we've already seen, been done before "THIS" series. Thus loses meaning.
 

Hero of Truth

Lillie Fan
I guess this confirms there will be no third versions and Ash-Greninja is just an anime-only thing to keep Ash fro touching Mega Evolution?

A bit late to reply to this, but no way in heck they will leave us without a third version. It's probably Z won't feature a redesigned Pokedex, so they went with the ORAS ones.

Ash-Greninja doesn't mean Ash will never master Mega Evolution. It's too early to tell, anyway.
 

Oshawotter

Well-Known Member
Did the female Meowstic used five moves? Psychic, Thunder Wave, Dark Pulse, Future Sight and Psyshcok?

I had the same question, except I swear she used 6 moves. Didn't they both use Protect at the very start?

Anyway, DEAR GOD this was probably the most well thought out gym battle I've ever seen in the anime, honestly! The strategy used and the teamwork between Frogadier and Talonflame was incredible! I loved how Ash turned the Meowstic's attacks against them by the end and just seeing Frogadier and Talonflame dodge and fly through those Psychocks and Dark Pulses was just amazing. I like how he used Pikachu also to time the Future Sight, which could be considered cheating, but still very clever!

10/10
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Top class Gym Battle. The teamwork, Olympia's strategy, etc... People on here have already echoed my thoughts.
Solid A from me.
Viola>=Olympia>Ramos>=Korrina>Clemont>Grant>Valerie
Let's hope the finale with Wulfric tops even this
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Top class Gym Battle. The teamwork, Olympia's strategy, etc... People on here have already echoed my thoughts.
Solid A from me.
Viola>=Olympia>Ramos>=Korrina>Clemont>Grant>Valerie
Let's hope the finale with Wulfric tops even this

I still dont know what about Viola made it so amazing to you man XD
 

Pteranodonte

Well-Known Member
I had the same question, except I swear she used 6 moves. Didn't they both use Protect at the very start?

Anyway, DEAR GOD this was probably the most well thought out gym battle I've ever seen in the anime, honestly! The strategy used and the teamwork between Frogadier and Talonflame was incredible! I loved how Ash turned the Meowstic's attacks against them by the end and just seeing Frogadier and Talonflame dodge and fly through those Psychocks and Dark Pulses was just amazing. I like how he used Pikachu also to time the Future Sight, which could be considered cheating, but still very clever!

10/10

The male Meowstic used Light Screen at the start. Like in the game, it worked on both allies.
 

nameman

Well-Known Member
I still dont know what about Viola made it so amazing to you man XD

I think it's because they were the first Gym battles that introduced the new dynamic style of battling. So it imprints more on people's minds. That battle, like today's, also got high acclaim.

Back to topic? BEST. GYM BATTLE. EVER. Or at least you can legitimately argue that. It was just amazing. Everything was just perfect. Olympia lived up to all of her hype and proved Ash's toughest Gym Battle in Kalos, if not in his career. I don't believe he could have won this if this were at any other point in his career except maybe late Sinnoh.

Awesome performance by Ash. Bravo!
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
I'm not surprised that Frogadier didn't evolve here: nothing really implied he would tbh. I was unimpressed by the Gym battle itself especially the Future Sight abuse, but Ash and Serena getting new Dexes was interesting.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
I still dont know what about Viola made it so amazing to you man XD

The only gym that made Ash open his eyes to battling her.

The next gyms all had some glaring flaws: specifically, Grant having just two Pokemon but still letting Ash use three which in turn only made Fletching utter cannon-fodder to Tyrunt, Korrina and her Lucario suffering a massive power down despite all the fuzz about their personal quest (not to mention how many of us got sick of them just because she has the blue jackal and she sounds like Amy Rose), Clemont's Gym being a copy-and-paste of Korrina's, and Valerie degrading her Sylveon to non-important status despite her in-game favorite pick over a hax Spritzee.
 

nameman

Well-Known Member
I'm not surprised that Frogadier didn't evolve here: nothing really implied he would tbh. I was unimpressed by the Gym battle itself especially the Future Sight abuse, but Ash and Serena getting new Dexes was interesting.

It's called a theme. Olympia is portrayed as a seer. She can see the future. Future Sight is an attack that strikes in the future. It's one of the things which makes this battle great: Olympia's theme is used in sync with her battling style.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
The only gym that made Ash open his eyes to battling her.

The next gyms all had some glaring flaws: specifically, Grant having just two Pokemon but still letting Ash use three which in turn only made Fletching utter cannon-fodder to Tyrunt, Korrina and her Lucario suffering a massive power down despite all the fuzz about their personal quest (not to mention how many of us got sick of them just because she has the blue jackal and she sounds like Amy Rose), Clemont's Gym being a copy-and-paste of Korrina's, and Valerie degrading her Sylveon to non-important status despite her in-game favorite pick over a hax Spritzee.

Well with the exception of Grant I disagree with all of this so *shrug*
 

phanpycross

God-king
It's called a theme. Olympia is portrayed as a seer. She can see the future. Future Sight is an attack that strikes in the future. It's one of the things which makes this battle great: Olympia's theme is used in sync with her battling style.

Im fairly sure it's called obvious bait, but whatever.
 
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