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American Gun Control

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by chess-z, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    Some people might consider it insensitive to the memory of the victims who died in this, the new largest mass shooting in United States history, but this is an issue that we clearly need to talk about. There should be no more haphazard dancing around this continuing crisis, no more letting it fade back into our collective unconscious until, a year from now, the newest largest mass shooting takes place.

    We need to talk about this now, while we still have impetus to do so, because failure to address this is failure to honor the victims and their deaths.

    It's should be relatively clear that I support gun regulation. It should also be relatively clear that record breaking mass shootings have become an annual event. It seems all to obvious to me that simply increasing regulations on tools literally designed to kill people will result in less people dying, but perhaps that is too presumptuous of me (it isn't).

    I can see no downsides to prohibiting the sale of assault weapons. I can see no downside to increasing background checks to purchase weapons anywhere. I can only see the lives that could be saved every day if we had some common ****ing sense.
  2. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    The myth of the 'responsible gun owner' needs to go away. Everyone is a responsible gun owner right up until the point where they unload on a shopping mall, or leave their gun on a nightstand while the kids are playing in the room, or decide to shoot at some shoplifters in a crowded carpark, or have a bad day and get cut-off on their drive home, or get into an argument with their neighbour about the property line, or have a disturbed family member who knows where the guns are safely stored, or get mad at an armadillo. Or any one of the thousands of stupid, tragic and unremarkable reasons every year that people die from gunfire in the US.

    I'm all for some kind of action, but we need to deal with the cultural aspect as well.
  3. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    One can hope that policy changes will impact the culture, but I completely agree. There is little way for guns to be safe, and gun owners should be obligated to take responsibility for the toxic culture that they have created. We, as a people, need to look at the uncomfortable reality of guns. It's hideous that we keep on allowing this to fade from our memory, because this is abhorrent. I cried tears of rage and despair when I heard about this, because it always seems like nothing will be done, and people will continue to defend doing nothing, because as long as it isn't them who is dying, their guns are perfectly safe.
  4. Gamzee Makara

    Gamzee Makara Let people enjoy things...

    The problem is that the assault weapons industry heavily profits(along with the NRA and their politician lapdogs) seconds after a mass tragedy as people buy the same weapons a killer uses in order to match a potential killer's arsenal. This window of profit is what the gun companies fear being shut down, and that's what they use the NRA for.

    Blood money is thicker than truly safe waters in their eyes.

    Luckily there is a tool now to see which politicians took money from the NRA and, by proxy, gun companies such as Remington.

    Bonus:A bill is going through Congress that will fully legalize silencers AND armor-piercing bullets for private use. Where's those thoughts for the victims now? If they were actually thinking about the victims, that crap would be shut down immediately.
  5. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    The NRA is full of racists who aren't even hiding it anymore.

    "Gun safety advocates are the real racists. Now, please watch this video from the nra about how we should murder nfl players who kneel during the anthem. We're not going to even bother to pretend this is about guns, it's just about those uppity negroes. We figure the very idea of them will make you go buy another gun."
  6. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    The NRA is the evil that Trump was talking about when he condemned this, the most recent (and deadly) mass shooting. The NRA enables these murderers at in institutional level, just to make a quick profit. They figure that by riling up racial tensions, they can sell more guns to the most disgusting of our populace.
  7. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    Actually, the largest mass shooting in U.S. history is Wounded Knee but no one cares when it's Native Americans being unjustly killed.

    Considering assault weapons are already illegally produced and distributed, banning them would only increase that production and distribution, thus increasing the crime associated. I don't recall a time when the prohibition of anything has led to satisfactory results. The prohibition of cocaine has not decreased the amount of cocaine addicts, but has increased the amount of crime in this country. The prohibition of alcohol led to a resistance so strong the government was forced to remove the ban.

    I cannot understand why people always seem to jump on the "get rid of it" solution. Getting rid of guns won't get rid of killers, nor will it get rid of massacres. These tragedies rest within the people who commit them, not the weapons they use. I am all for strict firearm regulations, but that is not enough, and it does not solve the problem. We need to get to the source of what leads to these shootings and stop it, whether it's a racist agenda, being bullied, mental illness, or simply being a massive a**hole.

    We need to figure out why they are committing these shootings, not what they're committing them with.
  8. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    I think you need to look for modern context, as in the numerous countries with sensible gun laws, rather than prohibition, when we're talking about gun violence.

    Frankly, it doesn't matter why they're committing these atrocities, the result is the same no matter the motive. The means and opportunity are the same, so let's work on that first.
  9. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    Mental Heath services need to just be better in general. Congress has been cutting it for years, and has even made it even easier for troubled individuals to buy guns. Just banning all guns won't solve the problem, but that and a few extra steps should help a lot.

    I'm also for disarming the police, because that's not helping.
  10. Jb

    Jb Tsun in the streets

    Not gonna lie, I'd be for "gun checkups"

    Where you need to have your gun "verified" every now and again through a check list. To make sure if have no modifications, proper loco space, and the like.

    I know it seems harsh but a lot of these shootings aren't done but Criminals thsy get guns off the street. They are from usually legally own guns. Iirc they said the shooters gun was modified for full auto. A check could of caught that and thus greatly lessened the Lost of life as the dude would of needed more time in-between shots
  11. Mordent99

    Mordent99 Banned

    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  12. Gamzee Makara

    Gamzee Makara Let people enjoy things...

    A new constitution wouldn't have a non-lobbyist and/or non-bipartisan approved Bill of Rights or any amendments to adjust it due to babbling-for-profit lawmakers, partisan propaganda and government gridlock.
    Better to just amend but not repeal the 2nd Amendment and others to account for modern life than to outright tear it up.

    And yeah, screw Pat Robinson. He's such a phony Christian that Father Guido Sarducci is more qualified to give religious advice.
  13. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army

    I am stuck in the middle of where I stand on gun control. I personally am terrified of guns but I am okay if people own guns as long as I don't have to see them. I have nothing against people who own guns. I also don't think dangerous criminals should have easy access to guns either. But I believe that trying to restrict who can purchase a gun won't solve a thing. If anything it'll be made worse. Look at the Prohibition and how outlawing alcohol sales and manufacturing was supposed to cut down crime. It didn't and made things worse in the long run. Bootleggers kept making tons of money and organized crime rates skyrocketed. A felon is going to get a gun if he really wants it one way or another whether it's from a gun store or the black market. Total gun restrictions won't solve the problem at all.
  14. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    The American cultural attachment to guns is what makes the situation unique in contrast to pretty much every other Western state. It's not as if other countries don't have thousands of guns used both professionally and for recreation, but the desire to amass troves of heavy weaponry seems uniquely American.

    We'd all love to be in a position where this is politically feasible, but it seems impossible considering the saturation of weapons in the civilian populace; there are some neighbourhoods that police have every right to be fearful of. Much better vetting of recruits and a much harsher public line on those who mess up would be a better start, as it takes huge goodwill from the entirety of society to de-escalate this.
  15. Mordent99

    Mordent99 Banned

    Prohibition was another conservative brainchild. They thought outlawing liquor would lead to moral purity. Thing is, they don't tell you that despite the high rise in crime it resulted in, it drastically reduced the sale and consumption of liquor

    Now think about that. No matter how you slice it, the black market did NOT make liquor cheaper or easier to obtain, quite the opposite.

    And liquor is not something you intentionally use to kill people. Guns, on the other hand, are. If sales of guns were reduced as much as the sale of liquor was, there'd be less use of guns.

    And less death.

    I'm not for a total ban on guns, we should just follow the example set by countries like Japan. In Japan, hunting rifles can be bought by civilians after an application process that includes training and thorough background checks. Civilians can't own handguns, only the police are allowed to. Assault weapons? Forget it. Collectors can only buy them once they're rendered harmless by the barrels and magazine chambers being filled with lead.

    And their murder rate is very, very low. No mass shootings at all. (And this is the country where violent anime and video games originated. Go figure.)

    I'm a security guard. Know what it takes to gain a license for armed guard? Two weeks of classes and training, psychiatric evaluation, and a clean record. You also have to take an annual eight hour seminar, in addition to the one taken by normal guards.

    And that's for security guards, btw, not police. Their tests are harder.

    WHY should civilians be able to gain them easier??

    You're way too generous. The man is a lying charlatan and a snake-oil salesman.

    Compensation for something they were made fun of in high school gym locker rooms, if you get my drift.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  16. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    Get a modern context on the situation. I want you to google how many mass shootings Australia has had in the past 5 years vs us in the good old U S of A.
  17. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    I'm generally favored to not a complete disarmament where they have no weapons, but more where they're not going to have over the top weapons when the situation doesn't require it.
  18. chess-z

    chess-z campy vampire

    And here's another thing: restricted access to guns would cut suicide rates dramatically. Most people consider using guns because it's a very quick and effective way of killing yourself. While it certainly won't deter the most determined, ease of access to death is a major factor in suicide. I know this is an appeal to emotion, but I want you to imagine defending a pro-gun stance to someone whose loved one killed themself with an easily obtained firearm.

    It's bitter, isn't it?
  19. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    You really went all out with those scenarios. I heard about the armadillo story recently. Quite funny.
  20. Auraninja

    Auraninja Try to understand.

    I never saw any of the Constitutional amendments as absolute rights. Just as you can shout out harmful comments out in the street (or fire in a crowded theater), you don't have the unconditional right to own every gun you wish without regulation.

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