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American Politics: THANKS OBAMA

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by ccangelopearl1362, Dec 16, 2012.

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  1. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    You have every right but if there is no truth behind it then it is purely political slander

    I mean to put it another way if I came on here and said that Obama is a Muslim and that he was not born in this country I don't think anyone on here would write it off as a simple personal belief that I was free to state.

    By the way your original statement is worded in a way that Obama is preventing these things from happening as if they were fact
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  2. LDSman

    LDSman Banned

    You presented it as facts, then backtracked when called on it. You lied.
  3. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

    it's funny because given enough time maedar could probably find a congressional roll-call vote supporting all but 25-27.

    (well, assuming maedar even knows where to find roll-call votes without a huffington post writer holding his hand the entire way.)

    and apparently "political slander" doesn't apply to the comical exaggeration of flaws in current non-NSA/CIA policy that has made up every page of this thread since mid-october, to say nothing about the general mockery of anything resembling liberalism.
  4. Remorph

    Remorph Alone With Everybody

    Ugh... Most of those are RADICAL TEA PARTY Republicans... Us normal Republicans hate those guys.
    Maedar likes this.
  5. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

    unfortunately for you normal republicans, you seem to make up a minority even of the republicans in this thread.

    (granted the tea party radicals are a minority in congress, but they're enough of a power bloc that the rest of the elected ones are still absolutely terrified of primary challenges)

    ...and speaking of which.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  6. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    To be fair, the Tea Party's power is not in numbers, but in loudness. They just refuse to be ignored.

    I really think, though, that "old guard Republicans" (as it were -- not the literal old guard Republicans of centuries past, obviously) need to tell people that the Tea Party does not speak for them.
  7. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

    now, back to discussion of the unmitigated disaster that is obamacare's rollout

    wait, did i say "unmitigated disaster that is obamacare's rollout"? because i clearly meant to say "intransigence by the majority of GOP-held states refusing to actually participate in the law so they can help fix it later"

    intransigence like that of mitch mcconnell, the "about to lose to grimes next year" senator from kentucky.

  8. ((JAWS))

    ((JAWS)) Johto Boy

    "To be fair, the Tea Party's power is not in numbers, but in loudness. They just refuse to be ignored.

    I really think, though, that "old guard Republicans" (as it were -- not the literal old guard Republicans of centuries past, obviously) need to tell people that the Tea Party does not speak for them.

    When most people (at least that I know of) think of republicans they think of radicals. Obviously there needs to be more "positive" and more "sensible" republican leaders represented in the media. So far I, along with most of society fail to see that.
  9. LDSman

    LDSman Banned

    Most of those are either strawman statements or flat out lies.

    Fixing it is not dismantling it. How many times do we need to hear "it'll go broke in x years if we don't do something!!!"
    Debatable. Some say yes, some say no, some say don't care, does it impact the troops?

    Most I've seen is let the individual states handle it, don't force churches who don't wish to perform said marriages.

    This one is complete crap. Gov't actually makes more money when taxes on all individuals are reduced.

    True in that people want to reduce the amount of waste and corruption in said programs.

    Half crap. Repeal ACA, yes. It's a crap program that is already negatively affecting people. No one wants to block medical assistance to those that want insurance. Part of that 30 mill don't want or need insurance and shouldn't be forced to spend their hard earned money.

    Just certain ones. Like the ones the Palestinians use to reward their terrorists. Too much money is going to help corrupt gov'ts stay in power and it doesn't aid the people who need it.

    Illegal immigrants. Here illegally. Do what other countries do and kick them out.

    First I've heard of this.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-schram/abolish-the-sec_b_152748.html Huffpo seems to want the SEC abolished too. Though it is an old article.

    The DOE was supposed to make the US energy independent and has instead become a bloated agency.
    The EPA strangles business by introducing arbitrary regulations that are often impossible to meet and is currently trying to take control over all the waterways in the US, including your ditch. Some of the enviromental regulations are crap, other are not. EPA keeps trying to fine people regardless of actual pollution.

    The Department of Ed is wasteful and produces poor results.
    Many people on both sides called for FEMA to be shuttered after Katrina.

    Not even the Republicans can agree on this. Most favor more limitations, others favor letting the states decide for themselves.

    They are a business, let them support themselves.

    Most I've seen is pushing it back to being doctor's prescription required.
    Everytime the min wage goes up, the cost of goods go up.

    Eliminating the mandatory enrollment is not destroying unions. Unless the unions are incapable of getting members any other way. Then that is the fault of unions.

    Meh. Just the ones that suck.

    Too bad voter ID laws actually increase voter turnout.
    that's the dems actually.

    Stop funding NPR and PBS is not "destroying it." PBS certainly makes enough money with Sesame Street that they don't need the money and NPR is quite biased for a supposedly neutral program.
    Why should taxpayers pay for things like "Piss Christ"?

    Eliminate pork projects.

    Oppose gun regulations that don't work or had nothing to do with the recent shooting. Remove regulations that are ineffective.

    Only a few extremists go for this.

    See above. Most want the gov't to stop trying to restrict the free exercise of religion.

    This one is one hundred percent crap.

    Crap. Most people want to just stay out of it and let them screw themselves over.
  10. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

    speaking of sensible republican leaders, guess what this link isn't a story about?

  11. ((JAWS))

    ((JAWS)) Johto Boy

    ^Surprise, surprise.^
  12. Maedar

    Maedar Banned

    Well, it's about time.

    They had enough chances. And like I said, they should have kept their word.
  13. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    And Obamacare continues to crash and burn the website only getting 50,000 selections up to mid November with the original projection being 700,000 there is no way they will get anywhere close to that number, it would even be surprising if they made 1/10th of that.


    And now Reid is threatening the nuclear option which I completely welcome with the possibility of a Republican take over in the Senate in less than a year's time it will be nice to be able to block any Democratic filibuster

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  14. Maedar

    Maedar Banned

  15. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Great for them but for the exchange to work it needs healthy people to sign up enmass to offset the sick ones and by doing this the company is taking away from some of those healthy individuals
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  16. ccangelopearl1362

    ccangelopearl1362 Well-Known Member

    Daily Caller: Josh Peterson: Tech problems plague Obama’s ObamaCare conference call
    US News and World Report: Rebekah Metzler: Chris Christie Knocks Republicans, Obama at CEO Council

    One could imagine the dropped jaws as the news about that particular glitch raced throughout the Internet. The audio quality and user broadcast connections went awry, all after the fiasco behind that website. For their part, the group volunteers who put this call together estimated about 200,000 listeners, a striking contrast to the tally conducted by the live broadcasting platform they enlisted, namely 16,000 listeners. One of the comments in the article stated that “computers are becoming self aware, and even they do not want to have anything to do with this administration”. The benefactors rallying behind New Jersey Governor Chris Christie could share the sentiment, as could the Wall Street Journal, which helped sponsor the event in question. He proved consistent in citing support from blacks and Hispanics for his broader message of prosperity, but his online team could need every pointer they can get, right alongside other prospective 2016 candidates, of course. I’ll call this a self-inflicted stalemate for President Barack Obama and his advisors, incredibly enough, after last year’s presidential election, no less, and it could very well reflect some new shifts overseas.:

    Daily Beast: Eli Lake: Blackwater Founder Erik Prince: War on Terror Has Become Too Big
    Ahram: Anti-military, anti-Brotherhood protesters enter Tahrir for 1st time since Morsi’s ouster

    It would appear that even private security companies couldn’t quite imagine the self-destruction they were witnessing around them after September 11, 2001. Erik Prince is writing a book with details of his own surrounding the company that he built in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and he evidently disapproves of the National Security Agency’s global surveillance program(s). He included an anecdote in which an Internal Revenue Service auditor told his accountant that he hadn’t seen anywhere near as much pressure to audit any individual or entity as he had in the now-former contractor’s case. He didn’t speak highly of our worldwide drone attacks, either, but one could imagine that it would be a matter of time before the instability across North Africa intensifies, especially should certain groups inside Egypt escalate their preferences for violence. The protesters this time demanded attention for some of their dead associates throughout the upheaval in that country in the past couple of years, as well as an end to anyone they perceive as having betrayed their mission, from acting Prime Minister Hazem Al-Beblawi to… the Muslim Brotherhood. There was a clash between security teams and demonstrators two years ago – right in the middle of a certain convergence on my part – that left hundreds injured, and it looks like Defense Minister Abdul-Fatah Al-Sisi and his fellow officers have other hints to inform their decisions, starting with their new benefactors.:

    Reuters: Suicide bombings kill 23 near Iran embassy in Beirut
    Daily Beast: Josh Rogin: John Kerry Defies the White House on Egypt Policy
    Voice of America: Cecily Hilleary: Are Saudi Arabia, Israel Behind France Scuttling Nuclear Talks?

    What an awakening this morning I ended up having once that new attack flew over Twitter, and as it turned out, a Lebanon-based, Al-Qaeda-linked jihad group ended up claiming responsibility rather quickly, through its main Sharia guide, calling for a complete withdrawal of Iranian units, whether Islamic Revolutionary Guards or Hezbollah, from the national battlefield that used to be Syria. The security camera footage showed a man with a belt of explosives rushing over the wall before blowing himself up, followed by a car bomb “parked two buildings away from the compound”. With the Putinists readying their weapons and money flows, I suppose the Sunnis will have plenty of reasons to make certain that their position remains what it is. A cameraman for Reuters counted six bodies outside one of the compound’s entrances, and perhaps naturally, the Iranians blamed Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations for the attack, with fires engulfing cars, tearing off some of the buildings’ facades, and uprooting some trees. British Ambassador to Lebanon Thomas Fletcher offered to donate some of his blood to assist the injured agents there, which could complement Secretary of State John Kerry’s current outreach. It was National Security Advisor Susan Rice who urged the man to speak more openly in support of the Muslim Brotherhood during former President Muhammad Morsi’s recent trial proceedings, pitting the White House against the State Department. Whereas Kerry avoided the trial during his meetings with Egyptian officials, Rice went out of her way to call for constant participation in the country’s supposed transition, which could say quite a few things about the current state of the maelstrom in that part of the world. If anyone would wonder just what could get Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, French President Francois Hollande, United Arab Emirates Prime Minister Muhammad bin Rashid Al-Maktoum, and the House of Saud to attempt their own alignment for the Middle East, then between Iran’s societal suicide and President Barack Obama’s ensuing campaign of spite, it would appear that we, at least for now, have a justifiably grim answer. Indeed, a lawmaker who happens to be a close friend to the first official there reportedly phoned Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius to warn him of preemptive strikes unless the tougher sanctions against that special unit and its clerical captives held steadily. France has a deal to overhaul Saudi Arabia’s ships and tankers and wants to discuss anti-aircraft missile sales in the future, alongside new fighter pets for, of all places, Qatar. Since we’ve no way to truly verify that any facilities oriented toward nuclear production and refinement have been dismantled, the relevant activists remain on alert. An expert at the University of South Carolina said that more and more officials in the region sense that this administration intends to wash its hands of as many problems as it can, making David Goldman’s warning about this maelstrom that much eerier, I would think.
  17. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

    The "fix" proposals I've seen coming from the Republican Party since 2002 amount to chained CPI - which amounts to real cuts in benefits and measurable increases in poverty for seniors and the disabled and any of their possible dependents in the long run - and tying the program to "retirement accounts" akin to 401Ks, which is a whole new problem for reasons I don't think I need to articulate here.

    Fixing it within its current bounds could also include a lifting of the payroll tax limit beyond $250,000 - a policy that would affect a whopping 1% of people while by itself guaranteeing the program's solvency well into the 22nd century.

    And the second sentence of this quote, according to the overwhelming majority of economists and historical evidence of wide-ranging cuts in American taxes, is also complete crap, not the least of which because tax cuts are not the only causal actor in annual federal tax revenue.

    SNAP waste and corruption amounts to less than 5% of annual receipts yet we're seeing cuts in SNAP (both enacted and proposed) significantly greater than 5%, and that's just the program with the most "controversy" surrounding it.

    Your arguments toward this end appear to be "the federal site isn't 99.999% functional" and "people are [were?] losing substandard policies that were by and large bankrupting them to begin with", but I digress...

    ...because from the party that made "repeal and replace" part of its 2010 platform, I've seen no compelling "replacement" that would actually address any cost problems in the healthcare sector. Torts are negligible as a contributor to cost inflation, the "across state lines" policy would have the same end result as when that was enacted for credit cards (i.e., every company moves its headquarters to the state with the least regulations so the consumer's ****ed even harder), and nothing else has so much as been discussed beyond worthless campaign platitudes.

    Don't want insurance, yes; in order to demonstrate a lack of need for it, you'll have to first demonstrate that 1) those people purchasing insurance would not lead to lower health-care costs in the long run (for both them and the combined sector) and 2) that segment of the 30 million is not high-risk to begin with.

    And the DoE has "produced poor results" contingent with public policy that has exacerbated poverty (and education policy that has all but ignored the strong and extremely blatant causal link between student poverty and educational results). The solution isn't to abolish the federal body; the solution is to pursue policy solutions that do not exacerbate student poverty, which are wholly incoherent with what the Republican Party has presented at any point in the last fifteen years.

    This, at least, I'll agree is bull - the only concerted push to weaken child labor laws that I've seen has been coming from just Missouri and Maine Republicans, not the federal party.

    Equally bull, at least at the levels you're thinking of. Cost increases with a 10% minimum wage increase are statistically negligible at the state level[SUP]2,3[/SUP] and no econometric analysis at the federal level shows a statistically significant impact on such a price increase[SUP]1[/SUP] - at 10% you're looking at an increase of a dime on a $10 product.

    [SUP]1*[/SUP]“A Survey of the Effects of Minimum Wages on Prices,” by Sara Lemos, Journal of Economic Surveys 22(1): 187–212, 2008.[SUP]
    2*[/SUP]"Economic Analysis of the Arizona Minimum Wage Proposal," by Robert Pollin and Jeannette Wicks-Lim, Political Economy Research Institute, 2006.
    3*"Economic Analysis of the Florida Minimum Wage Proposal," by Robert Pollin, Mark D. Brenner and Jeannette Wicks-Lim, Political Economy Research Institute, 2004.

    Eliminating the requirement that you be in a union to enjoy union-provided benefits will, in the long run, remove all incentive to actually join that union, which effectively means that union is destroyed in the long run.

    And if their constant filibustering of judicial nominees regardless of actual qualifications (and, hell, constant filibustering of every initiative to the left of pre-2009 policy when it's not a lame-duck Congressional session) is any indication, "the ones that suck" equates to "every single one of them."

    Ex post facto fallacy - increased turnout is not these laws' intended consequence.

    It's the same thing as "destroying" it for anyone outside a well-funded urban or suburban area.

    I'll allow a British man to make the argument for funding of federal arts programs on British terms - namely, the cuts that started hitting early last year:

    Pork? Non-partisan civil engineering studies find we need an additional $800 billion in capital in the next seven years (i.e., both private and public-sector investment) just to keep up with road infrastructure deficiencies. The House GOP has thus far steadfastly refused to provide any of that.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  18. Maedar

    Maedar Banned

    Do you not understand that the exchanges are there for people to sign up en masse for private insurance, and that by trying to pick up business by making fun of healthcare.gov in its marketing, this Iowa insurance company is kind of doing the ACA's job by getting people insured?
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  19. John Madden

    John Madden resident policy guy

  20. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    And with out the healthy people signing up en mass with the exchanges then the premiums in the exchanges go up as there is no one there to balancing it out. The Iowa Insurance Company may be getting business but it does not help cover those that will be inside the exchanges using subsidies to buy insurance from the companies in there.

    Also I noticed you have not said anything about the horrible sign up the exchanges have OR Harry Reid engaging in the Nuclear Option and thus hurting his party
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