My greater point is that it doesn't matter if it is Christianity or any other that is offended by it, it is still against Church and State, maybe I did stay it wrong.
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American Politics: THANKS OBAMA
- Thread starter ccangelopearl1362
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My greater point is that it doesn't matter if it is Christianity or any other that is offended by it, it is still against Church and State, maybe I did stay it wrong.
Actually, I consider myself a Christian, and I still support homosexuals and abortion to an extent (no problem with it up until the fetus has a beating heart). Don't try to play the victim just because two people don't agree with your opinion.
I find the whole "Obama's War on Religion" thing a tad ridiculous. The man is sticking for what he believes in and what he thinks will improve the country. He isn't personally attacking religion at all. Frankly, those who think he is are a bit oversensitive in my opinion.
EDIT:
BigLutz said:
Exactly, which is why I don't get why lots of Christians make a big deal about the government allowing homosexuals to get married. Two other people who affect your life in no way, shape, or form getting married does not interfere with your religious practice (using your as a general term here), so why get all mad about it?
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Thomas Elliot
I AM HUSH
The separation of church and state is why we don't have a national religion, yet there are amendments posted on court houses, our money is printed with In God We Trust, we (or we used to when I was in school) pledge allegiance to one nation under god, we have congressional amendments and bills introduced which are based in religion/religious views, we have corporate churches allowed to act as individuals and contribute to political campaigns.
The Admiral
the star of the masquerade
Actually, I consider myself a Christian, and I still support homosexuals and abortion to an extent (no problem with it up until the fetus has a beating heart). Don't try to play the victim just because two people don't agree with your opinion.
I find the whole "Obama's War on Religion" thing a tad ridiculous. The man is sticking for what he believes in and what he thinks will improve the country. He isn't personally attacking religion at all. Frankly, those who think he is are a bit oversensitive in my opinion.
Not only is he playing the victim, he's claiming, with his Medieval beliefs, that he speaks for all religious persons, and that the OFFERING of contraceptive medicines will destroy freedom of religion. I think preventing folks from taking advantage if they want to does the same thing, honestly, because not everyone's religion says they can't take those.
The difference being, of course, that it's a personal act as opposed to a law, and therefore, not subject to the provisions of the First Amendment.
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Thomas Elliot said:
Just curious for a moment, is there anyone here whose school does not pledge allegiance to "one nation, under God"?
At my school (in Pennsylvania), that's what we do. You're not required to say the pledge, however you have to put your right hand over your heart and stand, if you're able to. And it seems like that's what every school for miles around does. I've actually never personally heard of a school where this wasn't the case, so I'm curious to see what other people do.
TheWatersGreatGuardian
Legendary Trainer
Whatever. I think I am done on the debate forum. Tired of being scoffed at for my "medieval beliefs"
The Admiral
the star of the masquerade
I have never heard a case where the Pledge of Allegiance, as it exists, excludes "under God." I've heard about complaints about it, but it's also just as easy to not say it. By a young age, I didn't say it at all, because I consider it a cheesy symbolic gesture.
Thomas Elliot
I AM HUSH
The Pledge has existed since 1892, it was not until 1942 that it was formally adopted as our pledge and it was not until 1954 that the phrase
"Under God" was used with the pledge.
"Under God" was used with the pledge.
The Admiral
the star of the masquerade
Also true. Maybe I wasn't clear. To restate, though, I can't say I've heard a version outside the "under God" variant used in my lifetime, but I've heard complaints about it. I think the earliest one in recent memory dates back to around 2004?
Thomas Elliot
I AM HUSH
Without any research at all but from pure memory, wasn't it more from the fact that there was no way you could opt out from engaging in the pledge rather than the usage of the actual phrase itself?
When I say opt out, I mean as a child you were required to stand up every morning and recite it with your classmates, or else you had the potential to get in trouble.
When I say opt out, I mean as a child you were required to stand up every morning and recite it with your classmates, or else you had the potential to get in trouble.
I believe you can get out of it by merely staying seated on religious liberty grounds. The reason I say that is the Jehovah's Witnesses are required by religion not to pledge allegiance to anything
BJPalmer85
Well-Known Member
We used the under god version when I was in school and everyone was required to stand up during the pledge. Though I also went to a catholic grade school and high school so my opinion is skewed.
B
B
WizardTrubbish
much more beastly
Nobody was attacking Christianity, they were attacking your claim that Obama was waging war on religion because he doesn't give Christianity special treatment.
7 tyranitars
Well-Known Member
Interesting, you seem to speak for all christians. People aren't attacking Christianity and if you really think we are then I will just pity you. Look we here are taking your "attacks" aswell, but when we attack your views you start overreacting, like how we are hating on christians. If you can't take that, then for your own good please don't visit this place, because people are going to disagree with you wether you like it. And people are going to attack your views like you do with us.
ccangelopearl1362
Well-Known Member
Special treatment… in reverse? After everything I mentioned in both that earlier thread and Silver Soul’s “Islamophobia and McCarthyism” thread – especially David Goldman’s warning(s) – one might think it safe to assume that I’m far beyond the point of pondering various clashes of cultures worldwide, including attacks against Judeo-Christianity, whether it’s of the kind prevalent in North America, Europe, Africa, or Asia. America’s defense of globalization and modernity should be able to set the stage for the prosperity of these diverse groupings.:
YouTube: The Agenda with Steve Paikin: Christianity Goes Global
Pew Research Center: Phillip Connor: Faith on the Move: The Religious Affiliation of International Migrants
Canadian journalist Steve Paikin’s team invited four religious experts to discuss a shift in global Christian statistics from the so-called “Global North” to the “Global South”, as reported by the Pew Research Center at about this time last year.:
• 82.2% of Christians in north plus Australia vs. 17.8% in south as of 1910
• 39.2% of Christians in north plus Australia vs. 60.8% in south as of 2010
• Ethno-religious faiths most common in Africa in 1910, but almost completely gone by 2010, replaced by Christianity and Islam
Anglican Bishop Patrick Yu cited continuity from the original missionaries’ job, including proclamation and discipleship, changes to unjust societies, and care for the environment, while Conrad Grebel University College professor James Pankratz pointed to adaptations to more local forms of cultural expressions, such as music and social services, with the effect of making the overall church more dynamic. Perhaps most interestingly, University of Toronto anthropologist Kevin O’Neill pointed to democratization and free-market capitalism as factors meshing well with these diverse forms of Christianity, going on to question the divisions used as a matter of comparison and contrast. While Christianity can thrive in difficult environments, as Jarvis Street Baptist Church senior pastor Glendon Thompson suggested, it also ennobles the individual, offering a message of hope against any level of despair, which could very well appeal to more marginalized people. Even during colonial periods, Christian missionaries provided hospitals to take care of sickened people, so they’ve logically done well there. For Pew’s part, it tracked similar patterns of movement for migrants worldwide. The United States was the top destination cited for Christians and Buddhists alike, at 31,880,000 and 1,730,000, while the top destination for Muslim migrants is… Saddle, er, Saudi Arabia, at 5,620,000. Mexico, India, Russia, China, and Bangladesh are the countries with the highest numbers of originating migrants. Other statistics could be informative on their own.:
• 2,880,000 Muslim migrants originating from Turkey, 2,850,000 from Morocco, and 2,600,000 from Egypt
• 4,030,000 Muslim migrants heading to Russia, 3,230,000 to Germany, and 2,090,000 to the United Arab Emirates
• 1,340,000 Buddhist migrants originating from Vietnam, 840,000 from Thailand, and 250,000 from Cambodia
• 1,730,000 Buddhist migrants heading to America, 340,000 to Australia, and 290,000 to Canada
As these migrations continue, religious liberty looks likely to surface more and more often, but of course, we’re assuming that some of the countries situated along especially volatile, read bloody, civilizational fault lines won’t just spiral out of control in the coming years and decades. As I see it, at least one is unstable enough to do so already.:
Freedom House: Jo-Anne Prud’homme: Policing Belief: The Impact of Blasphemy Laws on Human Rights
Christian Post: Alex Murashko: Coptic Christians Asking Free World to Cut Ties with Egypt under Morsi
The blasphemy law in Egypt has a provision calling for steps to build a case by a Muslim against another Muslim for perceived Sharia violations, resulting in apostasy charges – and subsequent discrimination from the broader society. Naturally enough, global human rights standards don’t mix with this law, and since there are no safeguards against abuse, people with political or even personal vendettas have used it for their own purposes, such as a case in which two Middle East Christian Association activists were detained in August 2007 while defending Coptic Christians. With the Muslim Brotherhood now racing through Egypt’s institutions, other Coptic groups, such as Voice of the Copts, are alarmed, rallying Copts worldwide. One wonders whether any differences were in effect across Egypt as its military commanders, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Salafis work to preserve their visions of an idealized Egypt, completely locking out Copts, but also other religious groups, in the process, persuading them to join the broader migration process. Attacks from various Sharia terror groups, such as Al-Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba, could likely follow, necessitating intervention from various parts of the world. Fortunately, as an information society pops up, an unusual source could reflect globalization’s best traits.:
BusinessWeek: Caroline Winter: How the Mormons Make Money
The Mormons have a holding company through which they can manage their investments, and their business interests are diverse, such as 11 radio stations, a digital media company, an insurance business worth $3.3 million so far, and real estate firms for malls, parking lots, and residential buildings, among other areas. They’ve copied more secular businesses in running the companies they’ve set up, but overall, their church leadership has the final say on any major transactions. Thus, Mormon values and profits are intertwined, and after former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney’s prominence throughout this past presidential election, curiosity about Mormonism’s approach to financial and fiscal matters could increase. It might be all that President Barack Obama can do for the next four years, giving us political junkies some new views to digest.
YouTube: The Agenda with Steve Paikin: Christianity Goes Global
Pew Research Center: Phillip Connor: Faith on the Move: The Religious Affiliation of International Migrants
Canadian journalist Steve Paikin’s team invited four religious experts to discuss a shift in global Christian statistics from the so-called “Global North” to the “Global South”, as reported by the Pew Research Center at about this time last year.:
• 82.2% of Christians in north plus Australia vs. 17.8% in south as of 1910
• 39.2% of Christians in north plus Australia vs. 60.8% in south as of 2010
• Ethno-religious faiths most common in Africa in 1910, but almost completely gone by 2010, replaced by Christianity and Islam
Anglican Bishop Patrick Yu cited continuity from the original missionaries’ job, including proclamation and discipleship, changes to unjust societies, and care for the environment, while Conrad Grebel University College professor James Pankratz pointed to adaptations to more local forms of cultural expressions, such as music and social services, with the effect of making the overall church more dynamic. Perhaps most interestingly, University of Toronto anthropologist Kevin O’Neill pointed to democratization and free-market capitalism as factors meshing well with these diverse forms of Christianity, going on to question the divisions used as a matter of comparison and contrast. While Christianity can thrive in difficult environments, as Jarvis Street Baptist Church senior pastor Glendon Thompson suggested, it also ennobles the individual, offering a message of hope against any level of despair, which could very well appeal to more marginalized people. Even during colonial periods, Christian missionaries provided hospitals to take care of sickened people, so they’ve logically done well there. For Pew’s part, it tracked similar patterns of movement for migrants worldwide. The United States was the top destination cited for Christians and Buddhists alike, at 31,880,000 and 1,730,000, while the top destination for Muslim migrants is… Saddle, er, Saudi Arabia, at 5,620,000. Mexico, India, Russia, China, and Bangladesh are the countries with the highest numbers of originating migrants. Other statistics could be informative on their own.:
• 2,880,000 Muslim migrants originating from Turkey, 2,850,000 from Morocco, and 2,600,000 from Egypt
• 4,030,000 Muslim migrants heading to Russia, 3,230,000 to Germany, and 2,090,000 to the United Arab Emirates
• 1,340,000 Buddhist migrants originating from Vietnam, 840,000 from Thailand, and 250,000 from Cambodia
• 1,730,000 Buddhist migrants heading to America, 340,000 to Australia, and 290,000 to Canada
As these migrations continue, religious liberty looks likely to surface more and more often, but of course, we’re assuming that some of the countries situated along especially volatile, read bloody, civilizational fault lines won’t just spiral out of control in the coming years and decades. As I see it, at least one is unstable enough to do so already.:
Freedom House: Jo-Anne Prud’homme: Policing Belief: The Impact of Blasphemy Laws on Human Rights
Christian Post: Alex Murashko: Coptic Christians Asking Free World to Cut Ties with Egypt under Morsi
The blasphemy law in Egypt has a provision calling for steps to build a case by a Muslim against another Muslim for perceived Sharia violations, resulting in apostasy charges – and subsequent discrimination from the broader society. Naturally enough, global human rights standards don’t mix with this law, and since there are no safeguards against abuse, people with political or even personal vendettas have used it for their own purposes, such as a case in which two Middle East Christian Association activists were detained in August 2007 while defending Coptic Christians. With the Muslim Brotherhood now racing through Egypt’s institutions, other Coptic groups, such as Voice of the Copts, are alarmed, rallying Copts worldwide. One wonders whether any differences were in effect across Egypt as its military commanders, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Salafis work to preserve their visions of an idealized Egypt, completely locking out Copts, but also other religious groups, in the process, persuading them to join the broader migration process. Attacks from various Sharia terror groups, such as Al-Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba, could likely follow, necessitating intervention from various parts of the world. Fortunately, as an information society pops up, an unusual source could reflect globalization’s best traits.:
BusinessWeek: Caroline Winter: How the Mormons Make Money
The Mormons have a holding company through which they can manage their investments, and their business interests are diverse, such as 11 radio stations, a digital media company, an insurance business worth $3.3 million so far, and real estate firms for malls, parking lots, and residential buildings, among other areas. They’ve copied more secular businesses in running the companies they’ve set up, but overall, their church leadership has the final say on any major transactions. Thus, Mormon values and profits are intertwined, and after former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney’s prominence throughout this past presidential election, curiosity about Mormonism’s approach to financial and fiscal matters could increase. It might be all that President Barack Obama can do for the next four years, giving us political junkies some new views to digest.
BJPalmer85
Well-Known Member
every religion is flawed. People within the same religious groups are going to disagree about many things.
The problem that most people have with religion is that they feel their beliefs are antiquated and out dated and are generally unwilling to change. What most people fail to realize is that religion is all about belief. If you are Catholic and you believe in God and that Jesus was resurrected and that someone means that gay people shouldnt get married, than great that is what you believe. Are you right or wrong? who gives a ****!!! it is your belief so it needs to stay that way. Say that you dont agree in gay marriage, say that your opinion is based in religious contexts and then walk away.
Conversely, if you are Catholic and believe in everything I stated above, but feel that it has no bearing what so ever on whether gay people can get married than great that is what you believe. Are YOU right or wrong? again, who gives a ****!!! it is you belief so it needs to stay that way. Say that you think that gay people should be allowed to be married, say you religion doesnt way in on your opinion and then walk the **** away.
mini rant...sorry
To whoever said that Obama was trying to change Christmas to anything other than Christmas, you have got to be kidding me.... There is no way that would ever happen and if it did, I would hate to see what happens
B
The problem that most people have with religion is that they feel their beliefs are antiquated and out dated and are generally unwilling to change. What most people fail to realize is that religion is all about belief. If you are Catholic and you believe in God and that Jesus was resurrected and that someone means that gay people shouldnt get married, than great that is what you believe. Are you right or wrong? who gives a ****!!! it is your belief so it needs to stay that way. Say that you dont agree in gay marriage, say that your opinion is based in religious contexts and then walk away.
Conversely, if you are Catholic and believe in everything I stated above, but feel that it has no bearing what so ever on whether gay people can get married than great that is what you believe. Are YOU right or wrong? again, who gives a ****!!! it is you belief so it needs to stay that way. Say that you think that gay people should be allowed to be married, say you religion doesnt way in on your opinion and then walk the **** away.
mini rant...sorry
To whoever said that Obama was trying to change Christmas to anything other than Christmas, you have got to be kidding me.... There is no way that would ever happen and if it did, I would hate to see what happens
B
ccangelopearl1362
Well-Known Member
I suppose that these global advancements have made any prospects for leaving other belief systems alone completely meaningless by this point, leaving religious crackdowns as the only viable path to either preserving some semblance of such traditions, unleashing a perceived paradise, or, failing both options, ensuring as high a body count as possible. It’s why the Muslim Brotherhood has been overrunning Egypt, attempting to outmaneuver the Salafis and the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, which could be monitoring an upcoming verdict against President Muhammad Morsi’s recent decree. Interestingly, even a few Muslim Brotherhood operatives are expressing disapproval of Morsi, doubtlessly opening up a few new fronts with that group, which I’ll be certain that they can’t afford as they issue calls to defend mosques across Egypt leading up to the second round of that referendum on its new constitution. On a different note, this despair against modernity is also why Iran has been racing toward nuclear bombs, supporting Hezbollah and Syria’s Bashar Assad, and even imprisoning American pastors.:
Fox News Channel: American Pastor Imprisoned without Notice of Charges while Visiting Family in Iran
Reverend Saeed Abedini was visiting some family members still in that country and developing new communities for converts to Christianity when some Islamic Revolutionary Guard operatives arrived at his parents’ residence in Tehran, placed the other members of his family present under house arrest, and stuck him in Evin Prison… all this past September, evidently. Abedini’s movement has grown to “about 100 churches in 30 Iranian cities with more than 2,000 members”, and according to his wife, he converted after depression from training to become a suicide bomber. For the Iranian regime’s part, it has a bail set at about $410,000, but they’ve yet to accept any arrangements with the Abedinis. The American Center for Law and Justice is mobilizing to set him free, working with members of Congress, other countries, and leaders in the United Nations, and should it succeed, a view could be implanted that Iran – and Shiism, by extension – is succumbing to total corruption by elements in the American Empire, leaving either the Muslim Brotherhood, the Salafis, Al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, or the Islamic Liberation Party to appeal to sympathetic Muslims, presumably Sunnis, throughout North Africa, the Middle East, or Central and South Asia. At least some of these groups could join forces against the others, whether out of purity or personal power, which would make any American activities to inject further instability into such alliances quite imperative. Continuity with the Kurds might be the safest bet for this course of action.:
Washington Institute: Simon Henderson and David Pollock: Iraqi President’s Stroke Rekindles Fears of Kurdish/Arab Split
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has worked with Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki in holding the country together, but tensions between Iraqi Kurds and the capital have escalated over matters such as invitations to foreign energy companies to explore and extract various reserves scattered in Iraq and, more recently, the Syrian civil war. Unfortunately, this stroke broadens that challenge, leaving Kurds and Arabs, whether Sunni or Shiite, further split among themselves and each other. As fault lines go, the one between both Islamic branches looks likely to spill between both Iraq and Syria, and with weapons of mass destruction among the probable targets, some even here in this country may start to pay attention more quickly than before.:
[IMG139]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/2012-12-19-Syria-intervention-support.jpg[/IMG139]
Washington Post WorldViews: Scott Clement: Poll: Americans also see chemical weapon ‘red line’ in Syria
That poll was set up from December 13-16, and as Assad’s regime crumbles, the Obama administration could be likely to see concentration on those chemical weapons as an optimal path to pursue. If it’s any help, the margin of people opining that American interests have been hurt rather than helped since these protests started is 55% to 23%, and Republicans are most likely to oppose recognition for those rebelling jihadists, namely the Al-Nusra Front. As Islam’s borders get bloodier and bloodier with each passing day, the United States and its allies will need all the determination that they can muster to defend freedom and modernity as antidotes to this nihilism.
Fox News Channel: American Pastor Imprisoned without Notice of Charges while Visiting Family in Iran
Reverend Saeed Abedini was visiting some family members still in that country and developing new communities for converts to Christianity when some Islamic Revolutionary Guard operatives arrived at his parents’ residence in Tehran, placed the other members of his family present under house arrest, and stuck him in Evin Prison… all this past September, evidently. Abedini’s movement has grown to “about 100 churches in 30 Iranian cities with more than 2,000 members”, and according to his wife, he converted after depression from training to become a suicide bomber. For the Iranian regime’s part, it has a bail set at about $410,000, but they’ve yet to accept any arrangements with the Abedinis. The American Center for Law and Justice is mobilizing to set him free, working with members of Congress, other countries, and leaders in the United Nations, and should it succeed, a view could be implanted that Iran – and Shiism, by extension – is succumbing to total corruption by elements in the American Empire, leaving either the Muslim Brotherhood, the Salafis, Al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, or the Islamic Liberation Party to appeal to sympathetic Muslims, presumably Sunnis, throughout North Africa, the Middle East, or Central and South Asia. At least some of these groups could join forces against the others, whether out of purity or personal power, which would make any American activities to inject further instability into such alliances quite imperative. Continuity with the Kurds might be the safest bet for this course of action.:
Washington Institute: Simon Henderson and David Pollock: Iraqi President’s Stroke Rekindles Fears of Kurdish/Arab Split
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has worked with Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki in holding the country together, but tensions between Iraqi Kurds and the capital have escalated over matters such as invitations to foreign energy companies to explore and extract various reserves scattered in Iraq and, more recently, the Syrian civil war. Unfortunately, this stroke broadens that challenge, leaving Kurds and Arabs, whether Sunni or Shiite, further split among themselves and each other. As fault lines go, the one between both Islamic branches looks likely to spill between both Iraq and Syria, and with weapons of mass destruction among the probable targets, some even here in this country may start to pay attention more quickly than before.:
[IMG139]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/2012-12-19-Syria-intervention-support.jpg[/IMG139]
Washington Post WorldViews: Scott Clement: Poll: Americans also see chemical weapon ‘red line’ in Syria
That poll was set up from December 13-16, and as Assad’s regime crumbles, the Obama administration could be likely to see concentration on those chemical weapons as an optimal path to pursue. If it’s any help, the margin of people opining that American interests have been hurt rather than helped since these protests started is 55% to 23%, and Republicans are most likely to oppose recognition for those rebelling jihadists, namely the Al-Nusra Front. As Islam’s borders get bloodier and bloodier with each passing day, the United States and its allies will need all the determination that they can muster to defend freedom and modernity as antidotes to this nihilism.
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Thomas Elliot
I AM HUSH
^I see your posts and you just bulldoze all my interest in discussing this topic.
I truly mean no offense when I say this, but there is a bit of decorum when it comes to being concise.
Either way, you really know your stuff OR you are fantastical bullsh***er. Respect.
Iran's race towards nuclear arms has been severely hindered since before mid 2010 and they didn't even know it.
Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
I truly mean no offense when I say this, but there is a bit of decorum when it comes to being concise.
Either way, you really know your stuff OR you are fantastical bullsh***er. Respect.
Iran's race towards nuclear arms has been severely hindered since before mid 2010 and they didn't even know it.
Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
Silver Soul
Well-Known Member
So, John Boehner's Plan B didn't work out well with the House Republicans as they postponed the vote due to lack of support. Not good for the House Speaker as he can't control his own caucus.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/fiscal-cliff-house-boehner-plan-b_n_2341539.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/fiscal-cliff-house-boehner-plan-b_n_2341539.html
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WizardTrubbish
much more beastly
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-nominates-kerry-secretary-state-185444917--politics.html
So, it looks like it's official, if the Senate approves, John Kerry will replace Hillary Clinton as Obama's Secretary of State.
So, it looks like it's official, if the Senate approves, John Kerry will replace Hillary Clinton as Obama's Secretary of State.
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