Amourshipping (Ash x Serena) General Discussion (SPOILER WARNING)

[kj93]

I still think that she thanked him with a kiss on the cheek so... I want another flashback.

About the Parfum Palace episode, I'm looking forward to it, the episode has a good chance, so I'm optimistic.

I just wonder (question) How can they (Ash and Serena) be alone?

I think Bonnie will be sleepy another time lol.

And another question. What kind of SatoSere scene you think that will happen (if it happens)? Realistic please.

I think Serena will take a step to be near him and then she will tell him that she is comfortable around him or something like that, I guess.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

Ya that's creepy...
- childhood
- Ash offering his hand and lifts her up when she's in distress
- the cookies to repay him for his efforts (like when she baked him some in XY007 as a thank-you)
- Her searching to find him, years after
- THE SAME NAME!! seriously... Out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of possible names to choose from, the writer chose Serena.

Anything else? I must say, cudos to the author

Dang, dude, I swear to God...my mind just EXPLODED. That writer must be very proud of himself or herself. I'm gonna go read that story now, for the fun of it!

 

[YonaNoveau]

Is the writter the current Doctor Who or something. The amount of things spot on is just... wow. That or she became a writter of the show.... nah, the doctor theory is more plausible.

Say anyone has good fanart of Ash and Serena?

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

Say anyone has good fanart of Ash and Serena?

I've got this. It's totally lol's-worthy.

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2014/017/4/1/pkmn_v___serena_s_swimsuit_by_blue90-d72m40s.jpg

 

[taeuknam]

Speaking of Fanfics, Ch. 4 of Serena's Many Heartbreaks is up! (link in signature below)

Also, hopefully she holds onto ash when she is scared. and then she can blush for a moment before breaking away.

also @Geo-Oblivion Hopefully that happens at cyllage city. did you draw that?

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

also @Geo-Oblivion Hopefully that happens at cyllage city. did you draw that?

No, I didn't, sorry. I just realized that I forgot to credit the artist. The art was drawn by Blue90.

 

[Navin]

*shrugs* Because the writers wanted to incorporate those scenes, and then they decide later on to shoehorn another flashback? Really, what's gonna stop them from doing that? That's probable and logical too.

The probability and logic refers to the fact that we haven't seen any other flashbacks other than Serena recalling the forest meeting. Not whether the writers will or will not include another flashback. They have all the power of doing that whenever they want. If they opt to do so however, it would be bad writing. In fact, you yourself just admitted that it would be a shoehorn on their part.

I'm really not seeing any other implication the flashback offered except for Serena liking Ash. We really didn't know much about the camp, so we can't rule out the possibility that Serena at least spotted Ash again.

If Serena spotted Ash later at the camp, why didn't she return the handkerchief then? She washed it and kept it for a long time and saw the opportunity to finally return it when she saw him on TV.

WHY is it silly?

I can understand stumbling over sentences and blushing incessantly. Refusing to say your name is silly because it really is not a big deal, no matter how old she is and how shy she was. Heck, she could be extremely shy and stumble her sentences, and still it is not very difficult to say, "Sssee--Seeerena." It doesn't take much ATP to do that.

How many more times do I have to say it? SHE COULD'VE BEEN SHY AT THE TIME. It's perfectly natural for someone like her to act around someone who just saved him or her.

You don't have to repeat it. And you don't need to caps lock either.

No, it actually is not natural. Introducing yourself is one of the most basic things you learn in life, and it really is not "perfectly natural."

The whole basis behind this line of argument was that if Ash and Serena interacted multiple times, he would have at least gotten her name. Y'know what the problem with what you are saying is? If she really was *that* tremendously shy that she couldn't even speak a universal greeting like telling her name, how would she be remotely comfortable doing anything else around him?

To advance the episode's plot, if anything.

How would a random flashback shoehorned in episode 56 or 75 or 114 advance the plot? I am being serious here - by then, you would hope that SatoSere has gotten some development already. What would a flashback possibly add at that point? Absolutely nothing.

Okay, you're being rude right here.

In what way was that paragraph remotely rude? If backing my argument = being rude and getting negative reputation, then I might as well not bother continuing this debate.

OF COURSE we would love to see hints happen in the present. Most of the questions that have been asked on the forum revolve around hints that we'd like to see anytime soon. Why do you think we keep anticipating hints in future episodes that are more than likely to not incorporate any shoehorned flashbacks?

Thank you for basically proving my point.

A scenario of a new flashback is just only one of many things we'd like to see coming out of AmourShipping, that's all.

But the moment someone mentions it, you suddenly spring up and state that it's a bad idea.

It *is* a bad idea. I more than enough explained why it is a bad idea. I am the one who initially said another flashback was "awful," and I got several responses to that opinion. And I replied back in kind why I think this way.

 

[Lorde]

I just wonder (question) How can they (Ash and Serena) be alone?

Assuming that the fireworks scene happens during the Parfum Palace episode, I could see Ash and his friends being spread out wherever the fireworks are being shown, like on a wide balcony. I'd love for Serena to get closer to Ash while Clemont and Bonnie are distracted and I'd just like for them to hang out together and watch the fireworks while Serena reminisces about their adventure so far or something. That's my down-to-earth prediction for that situation.

 

[taeuknam]

I can understand stumbling over sentences and blushing incessantly. Refusing to say your name is silly because it really is not a big deal, no matter how old she is and how shy she was. Heck, she could be extremely shy and stumble her sentences, and still it is not very difficult to say, "Sssee--Seeerena." It doesn't take much ATP to do that.

i think what he meant was, not that she'd refuse to say her name, but wouldn't introduce herself unless ash asked, which, he probably didn't.
Also, she could have told him, and he could've forgotten it, but still remembered her as the straw-hat-girl, if that was her most prominent feature.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

The probability and logic refers to the fact that we haven't seen any other flashbacks other than Serena recalling the forest meeting. Not whether the writers will or will not include another flashback. They have all the power of doing that whenever they want. If they opt to do so however, it would be bad writing. In fact, you yourself just admitted that it would be a shoehorn on their part.

Doesn't mean I'll dislike it. I personally won't be able to know if I'll like it or not until I see it and determine its true relevancy to AmourShipping for myself.

If Serena spotted Ash later at the camp, why didn't she return the handkerchief then? She washed it and kept it for a long time and saw the opportunity to finally return it when she saw him on TV.

Not really sure. I guess we're gonna need a flashback to clarify that for us, then.

I can understand stumbling over sentences and blushing incessantly. Refusing to say your name is silly because it really is not a big deal, no matter how old she is and how shy she was. Heck, she could be extremely shy and stumble her sentences, and still it is not very difficult to say, "Sssee--Seeerena." It doesn't take much ATP to do that.

I've seen people who are so shy that they don't even say their names to strangers, both in fiction and real-life. Some of them might even run away if they have no one to hide behind. Considering that she was saved by a technical white knight, it'd be perfectly understandable if Serena was part of that crowd.

You don't have to repeat it. And you don't need to caps lock either.

No, it actually is not natural. Introducing yourself is one of the most basic things you learn in life, and it really is not "perfectly natural."

The whole basis behind this line of argument was that if Ash and Serena interacted multiple times, he would have at least gotten her name. Y'know what the problem with what you are saying is? If she really was *that* tremendously shy that she couldn't even speak a universal greeting like telling her name, how would she be remotely comfortable doing anything else around him?

WHAT DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU? THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN BE SO SHY THEY CAN'T EVEN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES! AND SERENA WAS A LITTLE GIRL AT THE TIME; ONE CAN BE MORE INSECURE AS A CHILD, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE OR SHE'S AT A CAMP SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO!

Y'know what the problem with what you are saying is? You refuse to believe that there are different kinds of people, and people can change over time. Serena could've been overly shy and not interact with anyone as a child, but grew more social as the years went along.

How would a random flashback shoehorned in episode 56 or 75 or 114 advance the plot? I am being serious here - by then, you would hope that SatoSere has gotten some development already. What would a flashback possibly add at that point? Absolutely nothing.

How am I supposed to know? Episodes 56, 75, and 114 haven't aired yet, so we don't know their plots.

In what way was that paragraph remotely rude? If backing my argument = being rude and getting negative reputation, then I might as well not bother continuing this debate.

You're accusing others of not appreciating hints that occur in the present, which has been completely proven to be the contrary ever since this thread was created. We've got almost 460 pages of this thread, and we only started talking about the possibility of more flashbacks a couple of pages ago. What do you think has been filling up all of that remainder?

Thank you for basically proving my point.

You're welcome.

It *is* a bad idea. I more than enough explained why it is a bad idea. I am the one who initially said another flashback was "awful," and I got several responses to that opinion. And I replied back in kind why I think this way.

Well, unfortunately for you, that means that you're currently the only one who finds it a bad idea. Everyone else is being open and accepting of all of the possibilities, especially considering major AmourShipping hints are obviously being distanced by several episodes.

 

[Navin]

Doesn't mean I'll dislike it. I personally won't be able to know if I'll like it or not until I see it and determine its true relevancy to AmourShipping for myself.

I am not saying you won't like it - you could love it for all I care. But do you see how a shoehorn itself would be bad practice in story writing?

Not really sure. I guess we're gonna need a flashback to clarify that for us, then.

Let us assume for a moment that she did see Ash later at camp, and she wanted to return the handkerchief then. If that is what happened, why didn't she mention that she planned to return the handkerchief in Flashback #2 but wasn't able to? The way it was entirely presented heavily implied that she didn't see Ash again after the forest meeting.

I've seen people who are so shy that they don't even say their names to strangers, both in fiction and real-life. Some of them might even run away if they have no one to hide behind. Considering that she was saved by a technical white knight, it'd be perfectly understandable if Serena was part of that crowd.

WHAT DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU? THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN BE SO SHY THEY CAN'T EVEN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES! AND SERENA WAS A LITTLE GIRL AT THE TIME; ONE CAN BE MORE INSECURE AS A CHILD, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE OR SHE'S AT A CAMP SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO!

Relax - there is absolutely no reason for you to become this flustered that you need to caps lock your sentences for added emphasis.

And now you're directing the argument to something that doesn't really need to be argued. I'll explain below.

Y'know what the problem with what you are saying is? You refuse to believe that there are different kinds of people, and people can change over time.

Attempting to ad hominem and then pull a straw man is not going to help your argument.

Serena could've been overly shy and not interact with anyone as a child, but grew more social as the years went along.

You did not address the original point behind this line of argument. I initially stated that there was no way Ash interacted with Serena beyond the forest meeting because otherwise he would have gotten her name and remembered her. You said it was reasonable for Ash and Serena to have interacted 2-5 times without him getting her name. I argued why that doesn't make any sense. You countered by speculating she might be too shy to reveal her name. I told you if she was *that* shy that she is struggling to even say her name, how could she be comfortable interacting with him? And now you're suggesting that "she could've been overly shy and not interact with anyone." Welp, do you see now? If she obviously was too shy to interact with anyone, especially someone she has developed a crush towards, how did Ash and Serena theoretically interact multiple times?

How am I supposed to know? Episodes 56, 75, and 114 haven't aired yet, so we don't know their plots.

You're ignoring the point. Fact remains that a flashback shoehorned into those episodes would be unnecessary because SatoSere would have already gotten development. There is no need to reference the past at that point.

You're accusing others of not appreciating hints that occur in the present, which has been completely proven to be the contrary ever since this thread was created. We've got almost 460 pages of this thread, and we only started talking about the possibility of more flashbacks a couple of pages ago. What do you think has been filling up all of that remainder?

Whoa, hold up cowboy. You're going from calling me rude and giving me negative rep to now saying I am accusing others of not appreciating hints? Disagree with my arguments all you want, but don't start insulting someone with false accusations. It's bad form.

Well, unfortunately for you, that means that you're currently the only one who finds it a bad idea. Everyone else is being open and accepting of all of the possibilities, especially considering major AmourShipping hints are obviously being distanced by several episodes.

Ad populum doesn't validate your argument.

 

[silverluigi98]

If Serena was being made fun of would Ash back her up like he would any fruend or would he because she's one of his friends from his childhood?

 

[taeuknam]

You did not address the original point behind this line of argument. I initially stated that there was no way Ash interacted with Serena beyond the forest meeting because otherwise he would have gotten her name and remembered her. You said it was reasonable for Ash and Serena to have interacted 2-5 times without him getting her name. I argued why that doesn't make any sense. You countered by speculating she might be too shy to reveal her name. I told you if she was *that* shy that she is struggling to even say her name, how could she be comfortable interacting with him? And now you're suggesting that "she could've been overly shy and not interact with anyone." Welp, do you see now? If she obviously was too shy to interact with anyone, especially someone she has developed a crush towards, how did Ash and Serena theoretically interact multiple times?

Well, actually, it was me who said 2-5 times. What if she never told him her name because he didn't ask for it, or maybe she did, and he just forgot?
Also, when you say "bad writing", do you mean writing that is logically inconsistent, or subjectively plot-worsening?
If you are arguing the former, then we can refute that objectively. If you are arguing the latter, then ad-hominem sorta does help his argument, because if you base the answer to a subjective question on anything other than consensus, then there's no reason for it to be right. shouldn't good writing be writing that lots of people enjoy?

 

[Navin]

Well, actually, it was me who said 2-5 times.

Oh, was it really? Oops, my bad GOW...

What if she never told him her name because he didn't ask for it, or maybe she did, and he just forgot?

I can understand not asking her name for a one-time thing like the forest meeting. But, if they are interacting multiple times, how do you not ask something as fundamental and basic as a person's name? That doesn't make sense.

Also, when you say "bad writing", do you mean writing that is logically inconsistent, or subjectively plot-worsening?

I feel like I made a case for both, honestly.

If you are arguing the former, then we can refute that objectively.

Except it has not been refuted objectively. I don't mind losing a debate, but I am not going to just concede my points when they haven't been proven wrong.

If you are arguing the latter, then ad-hominem sorta does help his argument,

Surely, you have to recognize the irony behind saying a logical fallacy is helping someone's argument.

because if you base the answer to a subjective question on anything other than consensus, then there's no reason for it to be right.

I do not quite understand what you are saying here.

shouldn't good writing be writing that lots of people enjoy?

Do you admit then that Twilight is good writing?

 

[Lorde]

If Serena was being made fun of would Ash back her up like he would any fruend or would he because she's one of his friends from his childhood?

I think Ash sees all his friends as equals, so he would rush to Serena's defense like he would to any of his friends. I'd like to see him defend her at some point if only because it would show that he really cares about her. I don't want Serena to be made fun of per se, but if it leads to Ash protecting her then I think it would be a good AmourShipping moment especially since it would be an AmourShipping hint from Ash instead of just Serena for a change.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

I am not saying you won't like it - you could love it for all I care. But do you see how a shoehorn itself would be bad practice in story writing?

It really depends on how it all turns out in the end. The shoehorned material might be unexpectedly good. I honestly wouldn't care about consistency if something was so well-executed.

Let us assume for a moment that she did see Ash later at camp, and she wanted to return the handkerchief then. If that is what happened, why didn't she mention that she planned to return the handkerchief in Flashback #2 but wasn't able to? The way it was entirely presented heavily implied that she didn't see Ash again after the forest meeting.

Just because that is so doesn't mean the writers won't shoehorn something in.

You did not address the original point behind this line of argument. I initially stated that there was no way Ash interacted with Serena beyond the forest meeting because otherwise he would have gotten her name and remembered her. You said it was reasonable for Ash and Serena to have interacted 2-5 times without him getting her name. I argued why that doesn't make any sense. You countered by speculating she might be too shy to reveal her name. I told you if she was *that* shy that she is struggling to even say her name, how could she be comfortable interacting with him? And now you're suggesting that "she could've been overly shy and not interact with anyone." Welp, do you see now? If she obviously was too shy to interact with anyone, especially someone she has developed a crush towards, how did Ash and Serena theoretically interact multiple times?

I am pretty sure I made it clear that that would've changed over time. People can change their personalities as time goes along.

You're ignoring the point. Fact remains that a flashback shoehorned into those episodes would be unnecessary because SatoSere would have already gotten development. There is no need to reference the past at that point.

Whatever. I'd still love to see a flashback in the future at some point.

Whoa, hold up cowboy. You're going from calling me rude and giving me negative rep to now saying I am accusing others of not appreciating hints? Disagree with my arguments all you want, but don't start insulting someone with false accusations. It's bad form.

Um, I called you rude and gave you a neg-rep BECAUSE you were accusing others of not appreciating certain hints. Here's proof of what you said:

Scenes like that are what I would imagine you Amourshippers would want to see - of her accepting his faults and admiring his strengths. Not meaninglessly returning to the past.

If you were meant otherwise, then you have a funny way of wording your sentences, because it seems to me you're being a bit derisive of the rest of us because we want to see more flashbacks.

Ad populum doesn't validate your argument.

I'm not the only one who would love to see more flashbacks, judging by the response you got for calling more flashbacks an awful idea. That's what matters in my point.

Whatever, I'm done arguing with you. I'm now heavily rooting for more flashbacks now, so thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Navin]

It really depends on how it all turns out in the end. The shoehorned material might be unexpectedly good. I honestly wouldn't care about consistency if something was so well-executed.

Basically, you conceded that a future flashback would be a shoehorn and would be inconsistent. That's all what I wanted to prove here.

Just because that is so doesn't mean the writers won't shoehorn something in.

Yup, it would be a shoehorn, and it would be bad writing. Agreed.

I am pretty sure I made it clear that that would've changed over time. People can change their personalities as time goes along.

Again, you're pulling a straw man. I am not arguing whether people change over time. In fact, that has absolutely nothing to do with original point behind this line of argument. Basically, you are offering nothing to prove me wrong.

Whatever. I'd still love to see a flashback in the future at some point.

Sure, that's fine.

Um, I called you rude and gave you a neg-rep BECAUSE you were accusing others of not appreciating certain hints. Here's proof of what you said:

If you were meant otherwise, then you have a funny way of wording your sentences, because it seems to me you're being a bit derisive of the rest of us because we want to see more flashbacks.

Why don't you read what I read I wrote again? I am talking about scenes, not Amourshippers :/ Basically, you misinterpreted my statement and then wildly assumed I am insulting all Amourshippers, even though I frequently post here and want, like you, to see the pairing work out if developed properly. ::Thumbs up::

Look back at what you just said a few posts ago:

OF COURSE we would love to see hints happen in the present. Most of the questions that have been asked on the forum revolve around hints that we'd like to see anytime soon. Why do you think we keep anticipating hints in future episodes that are more than likely to not incorporate any shoehorned flashbacks?

That is basically validating everything in that post by the way.

I'm not the only one who would love to see more flashbacks, judging by the response you got for calling more flashbacks an awful idea. That's what matters in my point.

Once again, you're appealing to the masses. If you didn't know, that's a logical fallacy and it doesn't make your argument better.

Whatever, I'm done arguing with you. I'm now heavily rooting for more flashbacks now, so thanks for the encouragement.

Cool. Good debate - appreciated your tenacity. Although, I am slightly disappointed by your decision to neg rep me twice.

 

[taeuknam]

Do you admit then that Twilight is good writing?

Ummm... I haven't read it yet, but if its praised more than hated, then sure.
Also, what I'm saying about the ad populum is that if it were an objective claim, then it would be a fallacy (like saying that the earth is flat because lots of people believe it.) but if it is a purely opinion based, then the opinion of the majority should carry more weight.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

Basically, you conceded that a future flashback would be a shoehorn and would be inconsistent. That's all what I wanted to prove here.




Yup, it would be a shoehorn, and it would be bad writing. Agreed.




Again, you're pulling a straw man. I am not arguing whether people change over time. In fact, that has absolutely nothing to do with original point behind this line of argument. Basically, you are offering nothing to prove me wrong.




Sure, that's fine.




Why don't you read what I read I wrote again? I am talking about scenes, not Amourshippers :/ Basically, you misinterpreted my statement and then wildly assumed I am insulting all Amourshippers, even though I frequently post here and want, like you, to see the pairing work out if developed properly. ::Thumbs up::

Look back at what you just said a few posts ago:

OF COURSE we would love to see hints happen in the present. Most of the questions that have been asked on the forum revolve around hints that we'd like to see anytime soon. Why do you think we keep anticipating hints in future episodes that are more than likely to not incorporate any shoehorned flashbacks?

That is basically validating everything in that post by the way.





Once again, you're appealing to the masses. If you didn't know, that's a logical fallacy and it doesn't make your argument better.




Cool. Good debate - appreciated your tenacity. Although, I am slightly disappointed by your decision to neg rep me twice.

Yeah, cool debate. Enemies? Enemies.

Ummm... I haven't read it yet, but if its praised more than hated, then sure.

More people hate it than love it from what I've seen (and I'm part of the hater crowd), so I don't recommend praising it if you wanna get bashed on by people, if not here, then in the outside world.

Also, what I'm saying about the ad hominem is that if it were an objective claim, then it would be a fallacy (like saying that the earth is flat because lots of people believe it.) but if it is a purely opinion based, then the opinion of the majority should carry more weight.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. I didn't even know what ad hominem was, so I'm glad you could point that out.

 

[Navin]

Ummm... I haven't read it yet, but if its praised more than hated, then sure.

Haha, well my point was that just because something is popular doesn't automatically equate it to being "good."

Also, what I'm saying about the ad hominem is that if it were an objective claim, then it would be a fallacy (like saying that the earth is flat because lots of people believe it.) but if it is a purely opinion based, then the opinion of the majority should carry more weight.

Whoa there homeslice, I think you are referring to ad populum, not ad hominem. Ad hominem is attacking a person's character in an attempt to undermine their argument. Ad populum is basically appealing to the masses.

Saying:

"Many Amourshippers want a flashback, therefore your argument of it being a bad idea isn't true" is ad populum.

Yeah, cool debate. Enemies? Enemies.

No, you're not my enemy I'm afraid.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. I didn't even know what ad hominem was, so I'm glad you could point that out.

Except from the way he stated his sentence, I don't believe he was talking about ad hominem...