Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

[Red Pheonix]

It'd be really cool (and cute) if that scene was shown in Ash's perspective: a crying Serena, pleading to him, "You can't leave me like this! Stay with me Ash! I love you!", and with that, Ash's eyes shoot open, and we have cheesy moment in the heart of an intense, destructive battle.

*cue the blushes, cue the tears, cue the hugs, and cue the handholding (doubt it, probably a long hug)*

*and the subsequent nuclear explosion in this thread*

As for why we like Serena, actually, that's an off-topic question. Serena's merit as a charecter isn't necessarily tied to Amourshipping.

Oh and I used that phrase a long time ago.

 

[Johtohfiller]

Ash promised to win the League for all those who didn't win 8 badges to the Furfrou Trainer, Takeru. They spent a whole subplot on it...and then he lost to Alain. It invalidated that subplot, making one wonder why it was even there. If they can do that to this moment, who's to say they can't to something else?

I wouldn't say completely invalidated. It was an important characterization moment for Ash, showing that he isn't fighting just for himself. He didn't pull off the victory and thus it didn't give a big payoff, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a real motivation for him. I hope we get some reflection on the League results after the Flare conflict is done though. I'm still disappointed with Ash's loss, not just because it's a loss but because they didn't handle it well. It felt deliberately un-dramatic to me.

As far as age goes Ash seems like a vague 10 to 13 to me. My headcanon is that Pokeworld humans are similar to Tolkien's elves and age very slowly. Their stated ages are what they're roughly equivalent to in our years.

I'm late to the party again but I think the Candy Girl line about rescuing the hero could be a reference to the Flare arc. Tomioka probably had at least a rough outline of the series from the beginning. Lysandre was revealed in the first Mega Evolution episode, and that was only a few months into the series.

 

[lane]

*and the subsequent nuclear explosion in this thread*

As for why we like Serena, actually, that's an off-topic question. Serena's merit as a charecter isn't necessarily tied to Amourshipping.

True enough, though her character does make the shipping a bit more fun than if she wasn't the female lead.

If a scene like that happened, and there's a blatant "I love you" in there, then there wouldn't just a be nuke on the thread. It'd probably have to shut down for a bit because the traffic is gonna be so ridiculous.

Very much high hopes but low expectations.

I wouldn't say completely invalidated. It was an important characterization moment for Ash, showing that he isn't fighting just for himself. He didn't pull off the victory and thus it didn't give a big payoff, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a real motivation for him. I hope we get some reflection on the League results after the Flare conflict is done though. I'm still disappointed with Ash's loss, not just because it's a loss but because they didn't handle it well. It felt deliberately un-dramatic to me.

As far as age goes Ash seems like a vague 10 to 13 to me. My headcanon is that Pokeworld humans are similar to Tolkien's elves and age very slowly. Their stated ages are what they're roughly equivalent to in our years.

I'm late to the party again but I think the Candy Girl line about rescuing the hero could be a reference to the Flare arc. Tomioka probably had at least a rough outline of the series from the beginning. Lysandre was revealed in the first Mega Evolution episode, and that was only a few months into the series.

Mm, I think the League was not dramatic at all because they needed to focus attention on the other major plot of the story: Flare. I think that writers probably made Ash lose with the intention of creating such a ridiculous storm of "dude did he just lose again #offthehypetrain", because they could then redeem Ash by making him curbstomp Alain's overpowered MCX in a proper battle under real circumstances of life or death. Disappointing, for sure, but again, as for nearly everything else that's up for speculation in the series insofar, high hopes, low expectations.

Not sure about the Candy Girl song's lyrics, but it wouldn't be too shocking that the song's lyrics are actually a prophesy of what's gonna happen. Apparently, many of the lines have had some form of representation in the anime as of now (or so I hear).

 

[pokesrini]

snip

Oh boy. Someone's taken the league loss deeply hasn't he? xD Dude. It's fine. Let the season finish and then let's see if the league is rigged or not. Personally for me, if AmourShipping is canon, I don't give a damn whether the league is rigged or not. That's just me.

Ash promised to win the League for all those who didn't win 8 badges to the Furfrou Trainer, Takeru. They spent a whole subplot on it...and then he lost to Alain. It invalidated that subplot, making one wonder why it was even there. If they can do that to this moment, who's to say they can't to something else?

Atsuhiro Tomioka is the head writer on the series, so he's pretty much cultivated everything from the general plot structure to Flare to Greninja to Showcases initial setup and to, indeed, Amourshipping. He's the man on the show. Though, of course, subject to executives' whims like everyone else.

This is another reason I feel it is rigged. That trainer who challenged Ash with the sole motive of trying to get him disqualified; not even getting the badges. Question is why? Anyhow, the point here is AmourShipping and its future.

Then there's the other theories like Malva using Sunny Day and all. I don't buy it. She didn't have a Pokemon outside, nor is it possible to modify the battlefield weather from so far away. So let's leave that aside for the writers to explain it in the later episodes, if at all.

I'm pretty sure that conventional Earth things don't apply to the Pokemon world. Clemont's a genius, so he went to college at, what, 5 years old?

+ Ash is easily the densest 13 year old I've ever seen. Serena acts exactly like a really, really infatuated middle/high school girl during the beginning of the series, but is really mature, if not one of the most mature, leads in the the series. She's so relatable compared to everyone else.

Why do you all like Serena?

Credits for that phrase loljk

It'd be really cool (and cute) if that scene was shown in Ash's perspective: a crying Serena, pleading to him, "You can't leave me like this! Stay with me Ash! I love you!", and with that, Ash's eyes shoot open, and we have cheesy moment in the heart of an intense, destructive battle.

*cue the blushes, cue the tears, cue the hugs, and cue the handholding (doubt it, probably a long hug)*

Yes, conventional earth things definitely don't apply there. No parent would ever allow their kid to go on a Pokemon catching journey around the whole damn country at the age of 10. Heck, a ten year old will probably get mugged by the time he reaches the outskirts of the city!

I do think that will happen. I'm pretty sure it isn't TRio who's saving Ash. Their role is something different. Serena will save Ash, or by a stretch, Alain. I doubt it's Alain either. If his heart could be changed so easily, then why did he allow Ash to get captured in the first place? Nope.

And I do expect a dramatic scene, with Serena crying over his motionless self and all. After all, it seems like his energy has been drained before he was crucified. So he won't just get back up and save the day immediately. It will take him a short while. I think this week's episode is going to be great; and the Team Flare crisis as a whole is going to be fantastic. It will more than make up for the league. So I feel that this crying about waiting 20 years for it and all that can be annulled. You made your point disliking the video, and I'm sure they received it. Face the fact, Greninja was never hyped to win the league. It was supposed to save the world- which is upcoming. I can't blame you for thinking he would win the league, since he went so far into the final with arguably the most powerful team he's had yet. I thought so too, and I was disappointed as well. But then I realized that it isn't necessarily the case. There are still a few possibilities, which I think we should wait and watch. If it doesn't settle by the end of the XY saga, then you're free to do what you like.

 

[Johtohfiller]

Honestly for me it's more "high hopes, ???? expectations". Who knows how it might all turn out.

 

[lane]

And I do expect a dramatic scene, with Serena crying over his motionless self and all. After all, it seems like his energy has been drained before he was crucified. So he won't just get back up and save the day immediately. It will take him a short while. I think this week's episode is going to be great; and the Team Flare crisis as a whole is going to be fantastic. It will more than make up for the league. So I feel that this crying about waiting 20 years for it and all that can be annulled. You made your point disliking the video, and I'm sure they received it. Face the fact, Greninja was never hyped to win the league. It was supposed to save the world- which is upcoming. I can't blame you for thinking he would win the league, since he went so far into the final with arguably the most powerful team he's had yet. I thought so too, and I was disappointed as well. But then I realized that it isn't necessarily the case. There are still a few possibilities, which I think we should wait and watch. If it doesn't settle by the end of the XY saga, then you're free to do what you like.

^THIS. Saving the world pales in comparison with winning a league, and I'm sure that the audience can appreciate that.

Sure, overpowered MCX is able to nerf Ash-Greninja in a duel, but there could be a scenario that could cause Ash-Greninja to get even more powerful. From what I recall, Ash-Greninja became a thing when Ash was under extreme duress because of a Naruto-esque invasion on the Ninja Village. He was losing against that Bisharp, and after being nearly crushed by it, Ash and Greninja synced together. If something similar happens because Ash is again under extreme duress, Greninja could possible transform into something even cooler!

Anyway, many possibilities, everything is up in the air, and the hype train for stopping a terrorist is pretty high. It's not the same as winning a League, but it'll surely be on par, if not higher, than the League itself.

 

[Omegaz]

I really want that moment between Ash and Serena to be super emotional. I don't know, it just makes sense. Just Serena trying to get through to an unconscious or half-conscious Ash. We see Serena's pokemon trying to hold the enemies off and Serena possibly takes a hit or two from a pokemon. I could see this being what triggers Ash's realization. Then he goes into serious mode and with Serena's help just goes ham.

Also, I've been imagining this one scene for a while in my personal head canon:
Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie watch the monitor where Lysandre reveals his intentions. Then he reveals Ash. The 3 are stunned. Clemont and Bonnie are talking when suddenly they turn and look and the camera pans over to a motionless Serena. The atmosphere is dark, she's got her hat down so you can't see much of her face (her eyes mostly). You see some tears slide down her face. Then you just see her go, clearly enraged (a lot like Alain in the last ME Special) and it becomes apparent to Clemont and Bonnie (at least Bonnie) that Serena is going to stop at nothing to save Ash.

Keep in mind, this probably won't happen to that extent, but I'd love if it did.

 

[Epicocity]

In response to my whole thing about the Furfrou trainer being invalidated is a fear that, if they set all this up to lead to Ash winning, only for him to lose, who's to day they can't for Amourshipping? it's a fear, and I feel a well-founded one. of course, we'll just have to see where it goes. I'm personally along for the ride regardless, but I don't want to be trolled regarding this stuff. There's a fine line between ignoring a plot point and outright not even pulling a plot point through.

 

[lane]

I really want that moment between Ash and Serena to be super emotional. I don't know, it just makes sense. Just Serena trying to get through to an unconscious or half-conscious Ash. We see Serena's pokemon trying to hold the enemies off and Serena possibly takes a hit or two from a pokemon. I could see this being what triggers Ash's realization. Then he goes into serious mode and with Serena's help just goes ham.

Also, I've been imagining this one scene for a while in my personal head canon:
Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie watch the monitor where Lysandre reveals his intentions. Then he reveals Ash. The 3 are stunned. Clemont and Bonnie are talking when suddenly they turn and look and the camera pans over to a motionless Serena. The atmosphere is dark, she's got her hat down so you can't see much of her face (her eyes mostly). You see some tears slide down her face. Then you just see her go, clearly enraged (a lot like Alain in the last ME Special) and it becomes apparent to Clemont and Bonnie (at least Bonnie) that Serena is going to stop at nothing to save Ash.

Keep in mind, this probably won't happen to that extent, but I'd love if it did.

It actually sounds really plausible that the writers are going to do something like that. Perhaps while Clemont and Bonnie rush off after Serena, they run into Sawyer, the Furfrou guy, and heck, maybe even the Professor. That could form the basis of the team that rushes towards Prism Tower to save Ash, stop Lysandre, and defeat Zygarde.

 

[Red Pheonix]

I really want that moment between Ash and Serena to be super emotional. I don't know, it just makes sense. Just Serena trying to get through to an unconscious or half-conscious Ash. We see Serena's pokemon trying to hold the enemies off and Serena possibly takes a hit or two from a pokemon. I could see this being what triggers Ash's realization. Then he goes into serious mode and with Serena's help just goes ham.

Also, I've been imagining this one scene for a while in my personal head canon:
Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie watch the monitor where Lysandre reveals his intentions. Then he reveals Ash. The 3 are stunned. Clemont and Bonnie are talking when suddenly they turn and look and the camera pans over to a motionless Serena. The atmosphere is dark, she's got her hat down so you can't see much of her face (her eyes mostly). You see some tears slide down her face. Then you just see her go, clearly enraged (a lot like Alain in the last ME Special) and it becomes apparent to Clemont and Bonnie (at least Bonnie) that Serena is going to stop at nothing to save Ash.

Keep in mind, this probably won't happen to that extent, but I'd love if it did.

Somebody say ham? Now someone needs to write down a hammy Serena confession.

Actually, that doesn't seem completely out of question. Lysandre in order to cause terror, can show they locked up one of the most strongest traininers and the gang will be able to learn about Ash's wearabouts. The thing that's a bit murky is Serena's reaction to it. She can suddenly serious or shocked or on the verge of tears. Difficult to say.

In response to my whole thing about the Furfrou trainer being invalidated is a fear that, if they set all this up to lead to Ash winning, only for him to lose, who's to day they can't for Amourshipping? it's a fear, and I feel a well-founded one. of course, we'll just have to see where it goes. I'm personally along for the ride regardless, but I don't want to be trolled regarding this stuff. There's a fine line between ignoring a plot point and outright not even pulling a plot point through.

Which is why we keep spamming-

High hopes, low expectations

 

[Manqoba]

I think it would be really cool if Serena found Ash injured in some way and she brings him out and we get to see her take care of him, a little bit like Battling At Full Volume. Maybe a scene between them when Ash is worsening or just unconscious and Serena is trying desperately to help him, but she gets frusterated and eventually just sits down by his side and lets all of her feelings come out.

 

[lane]

I think it would be really cool if Serena found Ash injured in some way and she brings him out and we get to see her take care of him, a little bit like Battling At Full Volume. Maybe a scene between them when Ash is worsening or just unconscious and Serena is trying desperately to help him, but she gets frusterated and eventually just sits down by his side and lets all of her feelings come out.

Change "brings him out" to "drags him out of rubble while all hell is breaking loose", and "taking care of him" to pleading and crying with him to stay with her, and that's a recipe for completely good havoc on this thread. Actually, anything like that, regardless of how the writers do it, will be toeing the fine line between canonised Amour and really, really big teasing hints.

 

[pokesrini]

I really want that moment between Ash and Serena to be super emotional. I don't know, it just makes sense. Just Serena trying to get through to an unconscious or half-conscious Ash. We see Serena's pokemon trying to hold the enemies off and Serena possibly takes a hit or two from a pokemon. I could see this being what triggers Ash's realization. Then he goes into serious mode and with Serena's help just goes ham.

I had thought of a similar thing in my fanfic. Just in a slightly different way xD Do check it out if you like. Chapter 7- a Bump on the Road. xD

Also, I've been imagining this one scene for a while in my personal head canon:
Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie watch the monitor where Lysandre reveals his intentions. Then he reveals Ash. The 3 are stunned. Clemont and Bonnie are talking when suddenly they turn and look and the camera pans over to a motionless Serena. The atmosphere is dark, she's got her hat down so you can't see much of her face (her eyes mostly). You see some tears slide down her face. Then you just see her go, clearly enraged (a lot like Alain in the last ME Special) and it becomes apparent to Clemont and Bonnie (at least Bonnie) that Serena is going to stop at nothing to save Ash.

Keep in mind, this probably won't happen to that extent, but I'd love if it did.

Not at all improbable. Lysandre is going up on TV after all. So he might show Ash (and Alain on his side) as well. I mean, Serena has to know somehow that Ash has been abducted (and where he is taken). This is probably how she knows.

In response to my whole thing about the Furfrou trainer being invalidated is a fear that, if they set all this up to lead to Ash winning, only for him to lose, who's to day they can't for Amourshipping? it's a fear, and I feel a well-founded one. of course, we'll just have to see where it goes. I'm personally along for the ride regardless, but I don't want to be trolled regarding this stuff. There's a fine line between ignoring a plot point and outright not even pulling a plot point through.

Nah. Once again, there was never a circumstance which even hinted a league win. Even the titles probably had a different interpretation in pure Japanese which was lost in translation. Whereas AmourShipping has only one possible outcome. I mean, can you see any other interpretation for it such that it need not end up in a confession at all, and can just be slid away like something else? It directly points towards some resolution at the end at the very least. Whereas there was no foreshadowing whatsoever regarding the league. Like I mentioned, Ash-Greninja was never supposed to win the league. If it did so, it would be secondary. The primary purpose was, is and always will be to save the world. And that's to happen.

 

[Manqoba]

So here's a question:

If and when Serena finds Ash during the TF arc, would you rather her be upset, emotional, and sensitive about his condition, or furious and ready to make some heads roll?

 

[Red Pheonix]

Change "brings him out" to "drags him out of rubble while all hell is breaking loose", and "taking care of him" to pleading and crying with him to stay with her, and that's a recipe for completely good havoc on this thread. Actually, anything like that, regardless of how the writers do it, will be toeing the fine line between canonised Amour and really, really big teasing hints.

Combine with a nice Ash hint, and it's "practically" canon. Meaning not officially canon but very strong reason to be considered canon.

 

[pixcalibur]

Honestly, winning a league is just a label. Wouldn't change Ash's direction any, as he would still continue travelling because that's what he wants to do. Shipping or not, just have to wait and see.

Kind of like reading a long novel. You're somewhere in the middle of it and just have to keep reading to see the plot twists that develop on its way to the end. So it's ok to make some possible predictions on what's next, but not to jump to rash conclusions and criticisms. Now if at the end of XYZ there are still unanswered questions and a confusing ending, then I'd have my questions to ponder.

So next episode will be like reading the next chapter so see what's progressed and how the TF thing fits together. Actually kind of glad Ash gets captured, as that gives the other characters a chance to shine rather than Ash doing all the work. But Ash should get his kicks in at the end of things.

 

[lane]

So here's a question:

If and when Serena finds Ash during the TF arc, would you rather her be upset, emotional, and sensitive about his condition, or furious and ready to make some heads roll?

All of the above, though I think that an angry and crying Serena has much more emotional impact on the audience and Ash, because it just shows resolve in a pure, uncut manner. Her feelings are pure at that particular moment in time, and there's only one logical reason why she'd be crying: Ash has been captured and tortured. The audience would be thrilled, and Ash would most likely realise that she's crying because of him.

Bonus points if Serena shows up alone, and Serena blocks Ash from an attack. 3-inch dense skulls can be cracked after all.

Combine with a nice Ash hint, and it's "practically" canon. Meaning not officially canon but very strong reason to be considered canon.

What would be a good Ash hint that's not completely implausible? I really don't see him doing anything outrageous, though I can picture a scene like so:

There's beams of fiery attacks coming from all sides, and the audio suddenly fades away as Ash looks directly in Serena's eyes. The background turns white, and Ash and Serena both realise that they are pretty much screwed because of the deluge of attacks coming their way. In a slo-mo fashion, both of them begin to hug each other, and as the attacks come closer, they hug even closer. Serena, in that last desperate moment, whispers to Ash, "I really like you."

*explosions*

Sylveon uses a broken Protect to save them, but faints. Both Serena and Ash look at each other, both blushing, and then face off against the threats at hand.

End episode.

 

[Omegaz]

I think it would be really cool if Serena found Ash injured in some way and she brings him out and we get to see her take care of him, a little bit like Battling At Full Volume. Maybe a scene between them when Ash is worsening or just unconscious and Serena is trying desperately to help him, but she gets frusterated and eventually just sits down by his side and lets all of her feelings come out.

You know I totally thought of her bringing out the handkerchief, but I forgot she gave it back to Ash, lol. Anyways, I could see something like this being plausible.

So here's a question:

If and when Serena finds Ash during the TF arc, would you rather her be upset, emotional, and sensitive about his condition, or furious and ready to make some heads roll?

A little bit of both. She should be upset, but use that frustration to motivate her to save him.

Combine with a nice Ash hint, and it's "practically" canon. Meaning not officially canon but very strong reason to be considered canon.

Just add a small moment when the arc is done and boom canon official. And the world loses it minds. And the writers are immediately pardoned of all previous sins

Not at all improbable. Lysandre is going up on TV after all. So he might show Ash (and Alain on his side) as well. I mean, Serena has to know somehow that Ash has been abducted (and where he is taken). This is probably how she knows.

Nah. Once again, there was never a circumstance which even hinted a league win. Even the titles probably had a different interpretation in pure Japanese which was lost in translation. Whereas AmourShipping has only one possible outcome. I mean, can you see any other interpretation for it such that it need not end up in a confession at all, and can just be slid away like something else? It directly points towards some resolution at the end at the very least. Whereas there was no foreshadowing whatsoever regarding the league. Like I mentioned, Ash-Greninja was never supposed to win the league. If it did so, it would be secondary. The primary purpose was, is and always will be to save the world. And that's to happen.

1. Yeah I was basing it off what we saw, the Serena reaction is where maybe I'm thinking too far, but also maybe not.

2. I do agree about the writing interpretation. The furfrou thing is a little like Ash telling his mom he'd win the Kalos league. However, it still is a little weird why they included it then, unless the furfrou trainer turns out to be related to TF in some way

 

[lane]

Just add a small moment when the arc is done and boom canon official. And the world loses it minds. And the writers are immediately pardoned of all previous sins

It's actually pretty difficult to see what kind of hint Ash would show, because he's such a tough nut to crack in regards to love, unless we're talking about Giselle. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but making Ash show some hints is like trying to squeeze from a turnip: possible, but it'll take a hydraulic press or something to do so. If the writers can pull this off, then they're obviously the writers that need to be hired for a new season of the anime.

 

[Omegaz]

It's actually pretty difficult to see what kind of hint Ash would show, because he's such a tough nut to crack in regards to love, unless we're talking about Giselle. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but making Ash show some hints is like trying to squeeze from a turnip: possible, but it'll take a hydraulic press or something to do so. If the writers can pull this off, then they're obviously the writers that need to be hired for a new season of the anime.

You know, I think it would be a realization based off of something Serena does. Once he has that realization, it will be easier to get stuff out of him.