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Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

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Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
I just saw XY092/093, and it doesn't seem totay impossible after that. Granted, they were talking about a Pokemon loving Ash, but at least he wasn't like "You mean best buddies right?"
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
I just saw XY092/093, and it doesn't seem totay impossible after that. Granted, they were talking about a Pokemon loving Ash, but at least he wasn't like "You mean best buddies right?"

He's much more mature than BW Ash and frankly that Ash was not very smart (sorry BW fans). I wouldn't find it that hard for a mature Ash to understand love.
 

lane

A Giant Goldfish
He's much more mature than BW Ash and frankly that Ash was not very smart (sorry BW fans). I wouldn't find it that hard for a mature Ash to understand love.

There's fans for BW? :3

You know, I think it would be a realization based off of something Serena does. Once he has that realization, it will be easier to get stuff out of him.

It'd also serve as a springboard for real canonical stuff, because there's no excuse to cut Serena off, as something real has happened between Ash and Serena.

Another scenario: Serena pulls Ash up a la Pokemon Summer Camp in Pallet Town, when Ash wakes up from his floating cross thing. "Don't give up 'til it's over", and Serena pulls Ash up, hugs him, and stays in a hug until someone attacks them. Cue the shocked Ash.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
He's much more mature than BW Ash and frankly that Ash was not very smart (sorry BW fans). I wouldn't find it that hard for a mature Ash to understand love.

AG Ash said the exact same thing. And I'll defend the first two seasons of BW as legitimately average. The season 3 was just stupid though.
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
There's fans for BW? :3



It'd also serve as a springboard for real canonical stuff, because there's no excuse to cut Serena off, as something real has happened between Ash and Serena.

Another scenario: Serena pulls Ash up a la Pokemon Summer Camp in Pallet Town, when Ash wakes up from his floating cross thing. "Don't give up 'til it's over", and Serena pulls Ash up, hugs him, and stays in a hug until someone attacks them. Cue the shocked Ash.

Lol there are some BW fans.

I definitely want references to the summer camp for sure. Hopefully the Pallet episode could give us more to that. What if we get even more flashbacks?!?!?!?!?!?!?1?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? OMG!?!?!!?!?!

AG Ash said the exact same thing. And I'll defend the first two seasons of BW as legitimately average. The season 3 was just stupid though.

Ok, but even then XY Ash is still more mature than AG Ash. This is the most mature season we've seen.
 

pakimon

Well-Known Member
Ok guys, sorry for going a little off topic but there is something i can't get off my mind. We know the real enemy of this shipping is Yashio (Palermo), and we know that Serena is going to call her to be mentored, the question is when? Are we going to get semi-cannon amour after TF arc and Serena stays in Kalos while Ash goes to Alola? Canon amour but Serena stays in Kalos? No amour, she goes to Alola and they develop it there? I hate to say it but afterall Yashio's character only purpose is to be Serena's possible exit from the series. How do you think the writers are going to handle this after the TF arc?
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
Ok guys, sorry for going a little off topic but there is something i can't get off my mind. We know the real enemy of this shipping is Yashio (Palermo), and we know that Serena is going to call her to be mentored, the question is when? Are we going to get semi-cannon amour after TF arc and Serena stays in Kalos while Ash goes to Alola? Canon amour but Serena stays in Kalos? No amour, she goes to Alola and they develop it there? I hate to say it but afterall Yashio's character only purpose is to be Serena's possible exit from the series. How do you think the writers are going to handle this after the TF arc?

You know, I think she decides that she'd rather stay with Ash and thus if she calls Palermo, it's to tell her that she is rejecting the offer or that she is not satisfied with her journey yet. She'll certainly come up in the end, but she doesn't necessarily have to call her. It would more be that she rejects the offer, but she already did that once.
 

lane

A Giant Goldfish
Ok guys, sorry for going a little off topic but there is something i can't get off my mind. We know the real enemy of this shipping is Yashio (Palermo), and we know that Serena is going to call her to be mentored, the question is when? Are we going to get semi-cannon amour after TF arc and Serena stays in Kalos while Ash goes to Alola? Canon amour but Serena stays in Kalos? No amour, she goes to Alola and they develop it there? I hate to say it but afterall Yashio's character only purpose is to be Serena's possible exit from the series. How do you think the writers are going to handle this after the TF arc?

I've got a feeling that Grace, Serena's mum, is gonna play a role in this. I say this because right after Palermo left Serena's room after Serena lost the Master Class Showcase (still callin' it BS that Aria won, just saying). She could be the one who talks Serena in (or out) of staying with Palermo, because being Kalos Queen still is Serena's dream. Palermo's request would probably come the day after Clemont and Bonnie leave (I hope they don't leave) to fix up Lumiose City and the gym due to it being trashed by Flare and Zygarde; this would allow for Ash and Serena to have some alone time for discussing the future of being Kalos Queen vs going to Alola with Ash vs staying home and being a Rhyhorn Racer (just kidding).

I think that Palermo was introduced just to give Amourshippers a scare because I think that the writers realised, after the warm reception of the first couple of episodes of XY, that Serena was a good character that meshed well with Ash, Clemont, and Bonnie. Sure, the writers wrote the episodes "6 months" prior to the airing, but in half a year, Serena must have received some wonderful praise from the audience, so she probably wouldn't be cut as a consequence of wanting to not lose fans (again).

//end rant

tl;dr: Ash and Serena discuss going with Palermo vs. going to Alola to develop and grow even more (as a couple?) as a human being after Clemont and Bonnie leave [I don't want them to leave because they're just so fun] ;_;
 

Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
So here's a question:

If and when Serena finds Ash during the TF arc, would you rather her be upset, emotional, and sensitive about his condition, or furious and ready to make some heads roll?

I'm with lane here as she should be crying. Considering her personality, the most she would be worried about is Ash's condition and getting Ash back. After getting Ash back, she would be crying from happiness and Ash would see this. Perhaps he would change after seeing Serena like that?
 

MegaScyther

Bug trainer
Question, would it be harder to get over say a death of greninja by Jim sacrificing himself to save Kalos or for serena to confess everything to ash and him not reciprocate the same feelings and they go there separate ways never to talk again to each other?
 

_Dog

Well-Known Member
Nah. Once again, there was never a circumstance which even hinted a league win. Even the titles probably had a different interpretation in pure Japanese which was lost in translation. Whereas AmourShipping has only one possible outcome. I mean, can you see any other interpretation for it such that it need not end up in a confession at all, and can just be slid away like something else? It directly points towards some resolution at the end at the very least. Whereas there was no foreshadowing whatsoever regarding the league. Like I mentioned, Ash-Greninja was never supposed to win the league. If it did so, it would be secondary. The primary purpose was, is and always will be to save the world. And that's to happen.

2. I do agree about the writing interpretation. The furfrou thing is a little like Ash telling his mom he'd win the Kalos league. However, it still is a little weird why they included it then, unless the furfrou trainer turns out to be related to TF in some way

What you two carry is a little thing called hindsight bias. Prior to the league there wasn't anything that supported your notion while there did exist stuff that supported mine's and Epicocity's. There were plenty of circumstances and subplota that pointed to an Ash win. The fact that both the promise to Ash's mom and the Furfrou punk (and we'll go add the vow tree from the famous "date" episode) ended up becoming unfulfilled. Plenty of things pointed to an Ash win. I have explained so in my previous post.

With the massive letdown from the league, the Team Flare arc has a heavy burden on it to make it up. Hopefully there will also be Amour moments too, as this is an oppurtune time to do so.
 
What you two carry is a little thing called hindsight bias. Prior to the league there wasn't anything that supported your notion while there did exist stuff that supported mine's and Epicocity's. There were plenty of circumstances and subplota that pointed to an Ash win. The fact that both the promise to Ash's mom and the Furfrou punk (and we'll go add the vow tree from the famous "date" episode) ended up becoming unfulfilled. Plenty of things pointed to an Ash win. I have explained so in my previous post.

With the massive letdown from the league, the Team Flare arc has a heavy burden on it to make it up. Hopefully there will also be Amour moments too, as this is an oppurtune time to do so.

What you have is just plain bias. Enlighten me. What did foreshadow the league victory? Olympia's prophecy? No. The battle against Diantha? Not really. The promise to his mom, well. He's been promising for years. As to that Furfrou guy, we don't even know what his purpose was. For that matter, Serena also said, "We won't lose". What happened? I don't know. Do you expect them to say, "Oh realistically, I might lose. So yeah..."? Come on. And as for the date episode, I watched the episode again just to see what you're on about. There was no mention about him wanting to win/expecting to win the league whatsoever. Do prove me wrong if you find something though.

In case it skipped you, the league actually played second fiddle this time to something else. I'd much rather have Ash win that than the league- which isn't even concluded yet completely. But I expect to see you on Thursday or Friday on this thread anyway. I know of one other person who said that he was fed up at a certain point well before the stage we are in now. He said he'd quit. And he's been posting intermittently, indicating he is still following the anime. You're here till this point- with just 7 episodes or so left for XY to end. Why not just stick with it without jumping to any rash conclusions or putting too much weight on a single event? I'm no one to stop you from doing otherwise of course.

As for Amour though, I would agree with you. This is an opportune moment for that. And honestly, I can't wait for Thursday. I just wish I put more effort into learning Japanese xD
 

matthew11

8000 MMR
What you two carry is a little thing called hindsight bias. Prior to the league there wasn't anything that supported your notion while there did exist stuff that supported mine's and Epicocity's. There were plenty of circumstances and subplota that pointed to an Ash win. The fact that both the promise to Ash's mom and the Furfrou punk (and we'll go add the vow tree from the famous "date" episode) ended up becoming unfulfilled. Plenty of things pointed to an Ash win. I have explained so in my previous post.

With the massive letdown from the league, the Team Flare arc has a heavy burden on it to make it up. Hopefully there will also be Amour moments too, as this is an oppurtune time to do so.

Well then, what did those circumstances brought you? Salt?

Beatle, not all promises can be fulfilled, remember that. Can you fulfill a promise? No? Yes? It's possible, but the possibility of failing to do so also lies there. All those that supported your ideas only lead you to think that way. And right now, there's absolutely no point in complaining about Satoshi losing because It. Just. Happened.

I must remind everyone though, be careful not to get your hopes and expectations too high regarding Amour in the TF arc. Don't let history repeat itself. I haven't seen the 2nd trailer for the next episode, but I did see some images about it. Too vague to call on Serena saving Satoshi just because she's on a helicopter doing a battle pose. But hey, anything can happen.
 

Minios

Smoke weed everyday
What you have is just plain bias. Enlighten me. What did foreshadow the league victory? Olympia's prophecy? No. The battle against Diantha? Not really. The promise to his mom, well. He's been promising for years. There was no mention about him wanting to win/expecting to win the league whatsoever. Do prove me wrong if you find something though.
I disagree. I don't recall seeing him promising about winning the League since Kanto with that much genuine with his mom like that, and how he kept mentioning about winning the League at the beginning of every series except this one and Kanto.
As to that Furfrou guy, we don't even know what his purpose was.
That right there is bad writting. At first we thought that the writers added him in order to imply that this time is different. Unlike any other League, Ash carries the burden of the trainers who couldn't participate. Heck, they also made that moment serious and intense to the point I thought that was the breaking point for Ash. Now that Ash lose, his addition is almost pointless.

Now, I don't think this thread is appropriate for discussing about the League, so I won't mention about this topic any longer since we need to move on from this lost.

Regarding Amour, since Ash got captured by TF, we will probably get tons of worry or even angry shot from Serena. About Ash though, I wonder if they want to give Ash hint, how would they do that?

EDIT: reply to CelebiAS : the difference between Ash and Serena is, Ash is a veteran trainer who has traveled 6 regions while Serena has just started her career almost MIDWAY of the series. On a positive note though, that similarity in their story writting is another hint for us haha.
 
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CelebiAS

Well-Known Member
I disagree. I don't recall seeing him promising about winning the League since Kanto with that much genuine with his mom like that, and how he kept mentioning about winning the League at the beginning of every series except this one and Kanto.

That right there is bad writting. At first we thought that the writers added him in order to imply that this time is different. Unlike any other League, Ash carries the burden of the trainers who couldn't participate. Heck, they also made that moment serious and intense to the point I thought that was the breaking point for Ash. Now that Ash lose, his addition is almost pointless.

Now, I don't think this thread is appropriate for discussing about the League, so I won't mention about this topic any longer since we need to move on from this lost.

Regarding Amour, since Ash got captured by TF, we will probably get tons of worry or even angry shot from Serena. About Ash though, I wonder if they want to give Ash hint, how would they do that?
And it did, like Serena carried the burden of her rivals. I think their stories are similar, to that extent.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
I was talking with someone about the possibility of Serena's confession, and he brought up a point that I don't think I've heard anyone mention before. The Pokemon Showcases weren't simply materialized out of thin air, but they're based on the Japanese idol phenomenon. This actually makes a lot of sense, they are fairly similar. There's just one problem with it for us. In almost all cases, it is illegal for idols to date. Almost all of them sign contracts that prohibit them from dating, because it hurts their image to all of their fans that want them for themselves. This clause is not consistently held up in Japanese courts, but it is ruled against the idol enough to still hold weight. It's considered an expectation in Japan. Now, obviously, Serena hasn't signed a contract with anyone yet. It's entirely possible that all of her performances are simply considered amateur and her name carries no real weight in Kalos like Aria's does. If that is the case, Serena going with Palermo would almost certainly mean a "no relationships" contract, either on-screen (not going over the contents, but it's implied), or assumed by the Japanese audience. That's the best case scenario. Worst case scenario, the expectation is already on her by the Japanese fans, her fans in-universe, and by the writers, and she can't confess without absolutely destroying her reputation in performances in-universe.
 
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Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
Let's just move on from the league.

What if we see the return of the "Never give up till the end!"? We haven't seen that for quite a while. Although we kinda hoped for in the league finals but we'll just adapt it in the Ash Vs Lysandre battle. Ash is battling Lysandre with his Greninja. There's a fierce battle and Ash-greninja is almost going to faint. Serena sees this and shouts at the top of her lungs that famous phrase out of desperation. Ash hears this and becomes determined again. He gives his last shot and proceeds to annihilate Lysandre's pokemon with a mega water shuriken or something better.

Although I'm not expecting this to actually happen but it would be a cool moment if it happens.

I was talking with someone about the possibility of Serena's confession, and he brought up a point that I don't think I've heard anyone mention before. The Pokemon Showcases weren't simply materialized out of thin air, but they're based on the Japanese idol phenomenon. This actually makes a lot of sense, they are fairly similar. There's just one problem with it for us. In almost all cases, it is illegal for idols to date. Almost all of them sign contracts that prohibit them from dating, because it hurts their image to all of their fans that want them for themselves. This clause is not consistently held up in Japanese courts, but it is ruled against the idol enough to still hold weight. It's considered an expectation in Japan. Now, obviously, Serena hasn't signed a contract with anyone yet. It's entirely possible that all of her performances are simply considered amateur and her name carries no real weight in Kalos like Aria's does. If that is the case, Serena going with Palermo would almost certainly mean a "no relationships" contract, either on-screen (not going over the contents, but it's implied), or assumed by the Japanese audience. That's the best case scenario. Worst case scenario, the expectation is already on her by the Japanese fans, her fans in-universe, and by the writers, and she can't confess without absolutely destroying her reputation in performances in-universe.

First, pokemon doesn't follow real life logic. There are no obligation for the writers to follow real life rules for the anime.

Secondly, the expectations are Serena getting with Ash or Serena taking the title of the Kalos Queen. Not on being..........everyone's fantasy or something.

Thirdly, Serena's love for Ash is a pretty big thing for her. If there were something about no relationship, they would have been mentioned by now.

Fourthly, if there were something about "no relationships", then it would be a common thing to follow for everyone who's participating. No such exists.

Fifthly, the writers only took the flashy part of the idol thing and not the songs(as in, Serena doesn't sing), corporate marketing and the idols bieng treated as "pure fairies".

Sixthly, it's Kalos aka France.

There are some other flaws. I'll write them later.
 
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Hey Guys! Thanks for welcoming me to Serebii and this forum! So, I have a question for you guys...

If Armourshipping dosen't happen would you watch the new anime? And if you do, would you accept the new girl?

My answer is Yes, but I wouldn't put it as a top priority every Thursday and I wouldn't ship the new girl and Ash because if Armourshipping dosen't happen, any other ship dosen't have a ghost of a chance. I also have a sinking feeling that the Ahola region is going to end up like BW...Hope I'm wrong.
 

Aardkloot

Well-Known Member
Hey Guys! Thanks for welcoming me to Serebii and this forum! So, I have a question for you guys...

If Armourshipping dosen't happen would you watch the new anime? And if you do, would you accept the new girl?

My answer is Yes, but I wouldn't put it as a top priority every Thursday and I wouldn't ship the new girl and Ash because if Armourshipping dosen't happen, any other ship dosen't have a ghost of a chance. I also have a sinking feeling that the Ahola region is going to end up like BW...Hope I'm wrong.

I've grown so attached to Serena as a companion and the possibility of a relationship between her and Ash that I highly doubt I could accept her.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
First, pokemon doesn't follow real life logic. There are no obligation for the writers to follow real life rules for the anime.

Secondly, the expectations are Serena getting with Ash or Serena taking the title of the Kalos Queen. Not on being..........everyone's fantasy or something.

Thirdly, Serena's love for Ash is a pretty big thing for her. If there were something about no relationship, they would have been mentioned by now.

Fourthly, if there were something about "no relationships", then it would be a common thing to follow for everyone who's participating. No such exists.

Fifthly, the writers only took the flashy part of the idol thing and not the songs(as in, Serena doesn't sing), corporate marketing and the idols bieng treated as "pure fairies".

Sixthly, it's Kalos aka France.

There are some other flaws. I'll write them later.

My point is that this is still a Japanese series, written by Japanese writers. The "no relationships" thing might be considered so obvious in Japan that they just never mentioned it. Of course, I'd love to be wrong. I just think we need to explore all possibilities.
 
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