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Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

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Minios

Smoke weed everyday
If Armourshipping dosen't happen would you watch the new anime? And if you do, would you accept the new girl?

There's a difference between "accept" and "ship" so there is that.

I would still watch the anime to be honest, mainly because the Alola region looks beautiful plus many pokemon have interesting abilities and forms. Not to mention the animation is improving in every regions and Ash can have different challenges to do instead of the uncreative and repetitive gyms.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
If Armourshipping dosen't happen would you watch the new anime? And if you do, would you accept the new girl?

I would certainly be willing to give it a try, and to be accepting of the new girl. If it's Mallow I don't think I would ship it as I simply could never see them together. The female PC I would want to learn more about her character.
 
My point is that this is still a Japanese series, written by Japanese writers. The "no relationships" thing might be considered so obvious in Japan that they just never mentioned it. Of course, I'd love to be wrong. I just think we need to explore all possibilities.

I am inclined to go against that theory to be honest. I mean, it is definitely a fact that real world dynamics don't work in the series. Not age, not social norms, nothing. So I highly doubt that it would be the case. However, I am inclined to believe that Yashio might expect Serena to give up on such feelings to do better in Tripokelons. Something that she will most likely refuse. But like a few others and I myself said, Grace will be the one to probably discourage Serena. They didn't show Grace in that scene for nothing. It will be brought up later. What do you think about the possibility that Ash will say goodbye (Amour notwithstanding), and goes to Pallet, and is joined by Serena either there, or in Alola?

I can pretty much guarantee Serena's presence in Alola if it turns out that there's no resolution in the end to AmourShipping. So far, one thing has been suggested. And that is, the writers don't leave loose ends. Every small thing always gets called up in future episodes in some manner or the other.

If Armourshipping dosen't happen would you watch the new anime? And if you do, would you accept the new girl?

I might, I might not. More that I might not. Honestly, Serena as a character has been done so well that it would be a challenge indeed to top it! Serena is a mix of the best of Misty, May and Dawn- hence her immense popularity. I don't feel it will be the same without her. Heck, I feel it's a stretch without Clemont and Bonnie! But without Serena will be something else altogether.

I am inclined to believe, however, that it is easier for the writers to carry Ash and Serena forward to Alola at least. Ash because a reset isn't exactly needed. Greninja is at a point now that it almost has an equal status to Pikachu, with all the synchro evolution and what not. Ditching it will be an immense thing. Yet, it is too powerful to have a reset. So how to deal with that? The boss-Pokemon in Alola. Since they can summon other Pokemon to help, it will be interesting, and it will pose a different challlenge to Ash and Greninja. Somewhat like Orange Islands you can say- where he retained his Pokemon with their usual strength, and yet it was different and challenging.

Additionally, it seems like Alola introduces Z moves and possibly even synchro evolution. So Sycamore or Oak might ask Ash to go there with his Greninja to learn more about it. And also, it seems to me that Alola has a link with Kalos- given all the foreshadowing in the games, and the presence of the Zygarde cores and forms in Sun and Moon. So how does all this make it easier for Serena? Well. Tripokelons could as well be included in Alola. Sure you might say, "But her goal is to become Kalos Queen!" Sure it is. But that doesn't mean she cannot train elsewhere to achieve that goal! Plus she has only 3 Pokemon in her party. So it's pretty easy to take her there in my opinion.

So if at all it happens, either we don't get any sort of resolution at the end of XY (which pretty much guarantees she's going to Alola), or Ash invites her to go to Alola if she wants to come. I find it difficult to see a scenario where they get into a relationship AND travel together. Or even a case where Ash friendzones her, but they still travel together.

That right there is bad writting. At first we thought that the writers added him in order to imply that this time is different. Unlike any other League, Ash carries the burden of the trainers who couldn't participate. Heck, they also made that moment serious and intense to the point I thought that was the breaking point for Ash. Now that Ash lose, his addition is almost pointless.
Regarding Amour, since Ash got captured by TF, we will probably get tons of worry or even angry shot from Serena. About Ash though, I wonder if they want to give Ash hint, how would they do that?

Let me just address the first point. I refuse to dismiss anything done by the writers as bad writing. They haven't done that so far in the saga. Everything small or big semeed to have had its explanation later on. So I guess this is something that will be explained or addressed later on.

Oh I think Serena hints are a given. But somehow, I am inclined to think of an Ash hint here too. I mean, he practically has no energy, and is crucified on top of a super tall structure. And this girl, risking her life, comes to save him and worries about him. He's got to reciprocate with something! That remains to be seen, and I can't wait for Thursday for that reason.
 
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Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
I see relationship and traveling together as more likely, actually. What good would it be for Ash and Serena to get together just to be taken apart less than ten episodes later?

I had a theory once that Ash won't actually say where he's going next (especially likely if they're hiding the announcement), but simply that he's going home to Pallet for a while. It'll happen suddenly to the group so Serena won't actually get a chance to confess. 3-6 month time skip, and he's departing for Alola. Serena happens to conviently be vacationing there, and they decide to travel through Alola together. By then, they've both had the time to decide if their feelings have faded or strengthened, especially in Serena's case.

Hey, they did it for Brock!
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
Oh there is no doubt, people will be enraged if they dump Serena. I've seen all over social media, loads of "Writers have to make amourshipping canon or the show will die" or "Serena has to stay or I'm out". Them dropping Serena after the league makes the writers completely unable to be trusted and they would thus lose most of their older fans.

You know, since they haven't stated it in XY. I don't think we can classify them with an age. If they state it then yes, but I like the idea of just not giving an age because it makes it easier to justify romance. Then again, 10-year olds can be in relationships and I've seen younger kids in relationships. The world isn't the same as it used to be.

I thought I remembered Ash saying in one of the episodes that it was him and Pikachu's one-year anniversary together. So he must be 11?

I seriously think that Ash is at least 12 years-old. 10 year-old children being in a relationship sounds ridiculous to me. They're still at the age where they either hate or start to understand the opposite sex. Even them kissing feels more like something out of curiousity.

This is why the Amourshipping helps confirms that they're at least in their early teens. You can see Serena eagerly awaits Ash to kiss her.

This will be the last time I bring this up. haha.
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
I see relationship and traveling together as more likely, actually. What good would it be for Ash and Serena to get together just to be taken apart less than ten episodes later?

I had a theory once that Ash won't actually say where he's going next (especially likely if they're hiding the announcement), but simply that he's going home to Pallet for a while. It'll happen suddenly to the group so Serena won't actually get a chance to confess. 3-6 month time skip, and he's departing for Alola. Serena happens to conviently be vacationing there, and they decide to travel through Alola together. By then, they've both had the time to decide if their feelings have faded or strengthened, especially in Serena's case.

Hey, they did it for Brock!

I'm still pretty certain that she would go with Ash to Pallet. Also, they tend to not do those kind of time-skips. It's worth a thought but I don't think it's likely.
 

Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
My point is that this is still a Japanese series, written by Japanese writers. The "no relationships" thing might be considered so obvious in Japan that they just never mentioned it. Of course, I'd love to be wrong. I just think we need to explore all possibilities.

No problem with exploring possibilities. That's what we do here.

As for the "no relationship" thing, I'm pretty sure the idols are portrayed as never liking someone ever or never liking someone specifically. If Serena was going to be portrayed as an idol who never had any relationship, then already she broke the rule. She already likes Ash and she owes the kickstarter of her career for Ash. It would weird for her to go on a "no relationship" contract.

Can any Japanese or Japan-knowing person can comment on this? I'm not an expert on the subject.
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
No problem with exploring possibilities. That's what we do here.

As for the "no relationship" thing, I'm pretty sure the idols are portrayed as never liking someone ever or never liking someone specifically. If Serena was going to be portrayed as an idol who never had any relationship, then already she broke the rule. She already likes Ash and she owes the kickstarter of her career for Ash. It would weird for her to go on a "no relationship" contract.

Can any Japanese or Japan-knowing person can comment on this? I'm not an expert on the subject.

Exactly, if that was a thing, Serena would've broken it. I'm not denying it's possibility, but it wouldn't be ideal.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
I thought I remembered Ash saying in one of the episodes that it was him and Pikachu's one-year anniversary together. So he must be 11?

I seriously think that Ash is at least 12 years-old. 10 year-old children being in a relationship sounds ridiculous to me. They're still at the age where they either hate or start to understand the opposite sex. Even them kissing feels more like something out of curiousity.

This is why the Amourshipping helps confirms that they're at least in their early teens. You can see Serena eagerly awaits Ash to kiss her.

This will be the last time I bring this up. haha.

Again, I've met sex-craxed eight year olds. Don't ask. Ten years old isn't really a big deal. I think my first crush was at ten.

"How old should Ash actually be?" theory is actually quite complicated. By my model of using the one-year anniversary as the 11 point, and each League/Grand Festival cycle as one additional year, I think it comes out to 15 at the top of BW before the retcon. One year by mid-Johto, 12 at the top of AG, 13 at the top of the Battle Frontier, 14 at the top of DP. Assuming Unova and the Islands took another year, he would've been 16 at the top of XY, and 17 at the bottom of it, where he is now.

Exactly, if that was a thing, Serena would've broken it. I'm not denying it's possibility, but it wouldn't be ideal.

I know it wouldn't be ideal. That's why I brought it up in the first place. There's obviously no guarantee that they take the same route as they do in real life, but if they did it would suck for us, crudely put.
 
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Omegaz

Captain Amourica
Again, I've met sex-craxed eight year olds. Don't ask. Ten years old isn't really a big deal. I think my first crush was at ten.

"How old should Ash actually be?" theory is actually quite complicated. By my model of using the one-year anniversary as the 11 point, and each League/Grand Festival cycle as one additional year, I think it comes out to 15 at the top of BW before the retcon. One year by mid-Johto, 12 at the top of AG, 13 at the top of the Battle Frontier, 14 at the top of DP. Assuming Unova and the Islands took another year, he would've been 16 at the top of XY, and 17 at the bottom of it, where he is now.



I know it wouldn't be ideal. That's why I brought it up in the first place. There's obviously no guarantee that they take the same route as they do in real life, but if they did it would suck for us, crudely put.

Ok that makes sense. It would indeed be very infuriating and questioning.
 

stig4prez

Member
"How old should Ash actually be?" theory is actually quite complicated. By my model of using the one-year anniversary as the 11 point, and each League/Grand Festival cycle as one additional year, I think it comes out to 15 at the top of BW before the retcon. One year by mid-Johto, 12 at the top of AG, 13 at the top of the Battle Frontier, 14 at the top of DP. Assuming Unova and the Islands took another year, he would've been 16 at the top of XY, and 17 at the bottom of it, where he is now.

Heck Id be ok with them saying he was 12-13 saying he is 16-17 would be too far of a stretch but 12 or 13 would be nice just to have some progress
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
Heck Id be ok with them saying he was 12-13 saying he is 16-17 would be too far of a stretch but 12 or 13 would be nice just to have some progress

I think that he would be 12 right now by the BW retcon. I'm not saying any of it is the canon answer, it's just what the math comes out to be.
 

Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
As for the age thing, I imagine Ash and Serena as 13-14 years old. Since they act like 13-14 years old. Wanna look at a 10 year old Ash? Look at the very first episode of the original series.

Scientifically speaking, girls start feeling romance a bit earlier than boys. Explaining Serena's crush on Ash and Ash's obliviousness. In case, anyone's curious.

EDIT: Something I remembered.

What hints do you expect and hope for the next episode?

I know we have been talking about Serena saving Ash and stuff but I'm pretty sure that's not happening next episode. One example by Omegaz, that could happen the next episode, the xy gang sees Ash in a TV and Serena gets emotional.
 
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Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
As for the age thing, I imagine Ash and Serena as 13-14 years old. Since they act like 13-14 years old. Wanna look at a 10 year old Ash? Look at the very first episode of the original series.

Scientifically speaking, girls start feeling romance a bit earlier than boys. Explaining Serena's crush on Ash and Ash's obliviousness. In case, anyone's curious.

Maybe that's it. During the XY series Ash is going through puberty. That explains the depression arc so well, considering Ash has never been that upset before. And hey, it gives a shot of him returning her feelings.
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
Again, I've met sex-craxed eight year olds. Don't ask. Ten years old isn't really a big deal. I think my first crush was at ten.

"How old should Ash actually be?" theory is actually quite complicated. By my model of using the one-year anniversary as the 11 point, and each League/Grand Festival cycle as one additional year, I think it comes out to 15 at the top of BW before the retcon. One year by mid-Johto, 12 at the top of AG, 13 at the top of the Battle Frontier, 14 at the top of DP. Assuming Unova and the Islands took another year, he would've been 16 at the top of XY, and 17 at the bottom of it, where he is now.

Yeah, I don't think I should press further about the 10-year old crush thing. I guess our views depends on how we grew up.

Anywho, Ash would definitely have been 16 by now. Just like you said.
If only B/W didn't say that stupid line in the very first episode about Ash being 10...
We should have just retconned the whole Unova League of B/W and put it in an alternate universe. The Decolore Islands should just be the starting point from there.

Wait, if Serena does come with Ash to the Alola region, does that mean Miette will too? Since you know, being a love-rival to Serena.
I find it hard to dismiss her at the end of XY as well.

As for the age thing, I imagine Ash and Serena as 13-14 years old. Since they act like 13-14 years old. Wanna look at a 10 year old Ash? Look at the very first episode of the original series.

Scientifically speaking, girls start feeling romance a bit earlier than boys. Explaining Serena's crush on Ash and Ash's obliviousness. In case, anyone's curious.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that fact. Girls do feel romance before guys do and they tend to imagine it a bit more as well.

That will also stump the other people's opinions on why it's a one-sided crush and Ash is obvious about it.
 
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Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
Maybe that's it. During the XY series Ash is going through puberty. That explains the depression arc so well, considering Ash has never been that upset before. And hey, it gives a shot of him returning her feelings.

Although I never saw BW, I will be hating it for simply for retconing Ash's age to 10.

There's one another thing. For some boys, the process for turning into an adult(forgot the word) starts late. By late, I mean at 13-14. I guess we can put Ash in this category.

Off-topic: How they handled the Team Plasma plot in BW? It was the most unique part of the plot of the Black and White games and one of the reasons I consider the BW games my favourite.
 

lane

A Giant Goldfish
Yeah, I don't think I should press further about the 10-year old crush thing. I guess our views depends on how we grew up.

Anywho, Ash would definitely have been 16 by now. Just like you said.
If only B/W didn't say that stupid line in the very first episode about Ash being 10...
We should have just retconned the whole Unova League of B/W and put it in an alternate universe. The Decolore Islands should just be the starting point from there.

Wait, if Serena does come with Ash to the Alola region, does that mean Miette will too? Since you know, being a love-rival to Serena.
I find it hard to dismiss her at the end of XY as well.



Oh yeah, I forgot about that fact. Girls do feel romance before guys do and they tend to imagine it a bit more as well.

That will also stump the other people's opinions on why it's a one-sided crush and Ash is obvious about it.

Miette's role probably is to highlight how lucky Ash is to have someone like Serena crushing on him. I see her more as a "Serena, make your move!" person than a "imma steal yo boi" person.
 

Aardkloot

Well-Known Member
Currently there's just too much possibilities available to determine what Ash is going to do next. I'm not counting out that this season could be the last season for Ash in general. I wouldn't be surprised either if Ash decided to stay in Kalos for a while helping rebuilding it after the team flare arc, and train to have another shot at the Kalos league. Although I still believe the finals were rigged in some way.
 

Manqoba

Shipping List Manager
Yeah, I don't think I should press further about the 10-year old crush thing. I guess our views depends on how we grew up.

Anywho, Ash would definitely have been 16 by now. Just like you said.
If only B/W didn't say that stupid line in the very first episode about Ash being 10...
We should have just retconned the whole Unova League of B/W and put it in an alternate universe. The Decolore Islands should just be the starting point from there.

Wait, if Serena does come with Ash to the Alola region, does that mean Miette will too? Since you know, being a love-rival to Serena.
I find it hard to dismiss her at the end of XY as well.



Oh yeah, I forgot about that fact. Girls do feel romance before guys do and they tend to imagine it a bit more as well.

That will also stump the other people's opinions on why it's a one-sided crush and Ash is obvious about it.

I'm starting to think Unova never happened at all. No one has talked about it since Alexa left. As for Miette, I would love to see her pop in again to tease Serena. I don't know what it's like in the Japanese original, but Haven Paschell and Maggie McDowell play off of each other really well. I remember Haven saying in an interview that they were friends before doing Pokemon together.

Although I never saw BW, I will be hating it for simply for retconing Ash's age to 10.

There's one another thing. For some boys, the process for turning into an adult(forgot the word) starts late. By late, I mean at 13-14. I guess we can put Ash in this category.

Off-topic: How they handled the Team Plasma plot in BW? It was the most unique part of the plot of the Black and White games and one of the reasons I consider the BW games my favourite.

The word is "puberty", and most males start maturing around 12. Most females start around 10.5-11. I'm not going into details on a Pokemon forum, but it's required learning in American schools. If you were never taught about it in your country (no idea where anyone here is from but some nations tend to gloss over it. Malta comes to mind), I recommend Wikipedia.
 

Red Pheonix

Well-Known Member
I'm starting to think Unova never happened at all. No one has talked about it since Alexa left. As for Miette, I would love to see her pop in again to tease Serena. I don't know what it's like in the Japanese original, but Haven Paschell and Maggie McDowell play off of each other really well. I remember Haven saying in an interview that they were friends before doing Pokemon together.



The word is "puberty", and most males start maturing around 12. Most females start around 10.5-11. I'm not going into details on a Pokemon forum, but it's required learning in American schools. If you were never taught about it in your country (no idea where anyone here is from but some nations tend to gloss over it. Malta comes to mind), I recommend Wikipedia.

This is interesting. Now, I need to see them rehearsing for Serena and Miette. Although I don't think we'll see Miette again............

I know and they also teach it in our schools but I'm not from an English speaking country. Which is why I forgot the word. Fun fact, in some countries, puberty starts in even lower ages. 8-13 years for girls and 10-14 for boys as far as I remember.
 
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