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Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

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JSLatios

REVIVAL ON 9TH!!!
I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you all:

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In the preview where they're both sitting in the monorail(?) I can see Ash maybe a bit frustrated because he's new to all this and doesn't know exactly what to do. Or he maybe questions why it's necessary. It reminds me of the face he made when Serena asked him to help with her pokevision videos.

--

For the last scene in the preview a lot of you were saying he was rejecting her feelings but his face looks like he's embarrassed more than anything. (Like back when he asked her to come along on a journey with them) To me I think he may have said something like: "Thanks to you Serena I was able to buy this gift for _____." Or maybe "You really helped me out today Serena!"

Another thing was that gift. The title of the episode is "Ash and Serena's first date, the vow tree and the present"..is it just "present" or "presents"? Does this confirm that idea floating around that Ash might give Serena a gift? I mean if it's for the pokemon then I think it should have been "presents". I'm sure this was said a billion times before but how it specifies "Present" threw me off.

--

What do you guys think? And as much as I want insane shipping moments we also have to take in account how Ash it.
 

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I'm finally home guys! :D

Hm about Ash and Serena getting into any arguments, I can maybe see something like that happening in XY64. The summary says something about Serena ending up being rough or something to her Pokemon while training for her next Showcase. I guess it depends on how they handle it, but if Serena pushes her Pokemon too hard or something, I can see Ash confronting her about that, with maybe Serena possibly snapping back at him for whatever reason, probably stress imo. I do think if that happens that she'll most likely feel really bad after snapping at Ash and may decide to take it easier on her Pokemon during their training. I don't know how Ash would react to it, butI definitely think they would make up after that. That's just one scenario though, there are many more that could happen imo.

You're very right here. I simply cannot see this episode going without Ash trying to pull up Serena for her actions. He would try to tell her that she is pushing her Pokemon too hard and all that, and she may get annoyed at that because she feels he doesn't appreciate what she thinks is hard work and determination. And of course, there's the thing about stress. So she might snap at him. But pulling up all the other points made about whether Ash would indulge in continuing the argument or not, he might just back off. It would end with Serena apologizing to her Pokemon and him.

Not gonna waste my knowledge on this. If you see me as a pessimist, you're very much wrong there.

First off, I don't think he called you a pessimist. even if he did, he's wrong. And even if he is right, it doesn't matter because your AmourShipping credentials are known anyway. You wouldn't be wasting your time writing a fanfic about it if you didn't like it.

I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you all:

--

In the preview where they're both sitting in the monorail(?) I can see Ash maybe a bit frustrated because he's new to all this and doesn't know exactly what to do. Or he maybe questions why it's necessary. It reminds me of the face he made when Serena asked him to help with her pokevision videos.

--

For the last scene in the preview a lot of you were saying he was rejecting her feelings but his face looks like he's embarrassed more than anything. (Like back when he asked her to come along on a journey with them) To me I think he may have said something like: "Thanks to you Serena I was able to buy this gift for _____." Or maybe "You really helped me out today Serena!"

Another thing was that gift. The title of the episode is "Ash and Serena's first date, the vow tree and the present"..is it just "present" or "presents"? Does this confirm that idea floating around that Ash might give Serena a gift? I mean if it's for the pokemon then I think it should have been "presents". I'm sure this was said a billion times before but how it specifies "Present" threw me off.

--

What do you guys think? And as much as I want insane shipping moments we also have to take in account how Ash it.

Well your points seem okay. But the third one, I would like to point out that Ash is indeed giving her that gift. It was shown to us directly. What was not shown is what that gift actually is. I believe that the gift is the key plot point of this episode. That gift would hold some serious significance later on- somewhat like that handkerchief of theirs. Now the reason I say this is because there was a statement around that which said, "Big things come in small packages"
 

Brandon00151

Well-Known Member
I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you all:

--

In the preview where they're both sitting in the monorail(?) I can see Ash maybe a bit frustrated because he's new to all this and doesn't know exactly what to do. Or he maybe questions why it's necessary. It reminds me of the face he made when Serena asked him to help with her pokevision videos.

--

For the last scene in the preview a lot of you were saying he was rejecting her feelings but his face looks like he's embarrassed more than anything. (Like back when he asked her to come along on a journey with them) To me I think he may have said something like: "Thanks to you Serena I was able to buy this gift for _____." Or maybe "You really helped me out today Serena!"

Another thing was that gift. The title of the episode is "Ash and Serena's first date, the vow tree and the present"..is it just "present" or "presents"? Does this confirm that idea floating around that Ash might give Serena a gift? I mean if it's for the pokemon then I think it should have been "presents". I'm sure this was said a billion times before but how it specifies "Present" threw me off.

--

What do you guys think? And as much as I want insane shipping moments we also have to take in account how Ash it.

I think that we will not only have the most hints COMBINED for one episoe but we may see the most hints for BOTH sides in one episode.
 

matthew11

8000 MMR
First off, I don't think he called you a pessimist. even if he did, he's wrong. And even if he is right, it doesn't matter because your AmourShipping credentials are known anyway. You wouldn't be wasting your time writing a fanfic about it if you didn't like it.

Well, the context says it all. But anyway, Truuuueeee!!

Hm about Ash and Serena getting into any arguments, I can maybe see something like that happening in XY64. The summary says something about Serena ending up being rough or something to her Pokemon while training for her next Showcase. I guess it depends on how they handle it, but if Serena pushes her Pokemon too hard or something, I can see Ash confronting her about that, with maybe Serena possibly snapping back at him for whatever reason, probably stress imo. I do think if that happens that she'll most likely feel really bad after snapping at Ash and may decide to take it easier on her Pokemon during their training. I don't know how Ash would react to it, butI definitely think they would make up after that. That's just one scenario though, there are many more that could happen imo.

Just recently saw it in the spoilers forum. Since we don't have enough evidence that they will bicker in this episode, I think it's too early to speculate on this. Even if they are to bicker in this ep, chances for it to have major hints or well-develop their bond is pretty low since this is going to be focused on Serena wrongly treating her Pokemon. I'm not really saying them bickering is pointless though.
 

--VIRGO--

Well-Known Member
I rather see as Serena pushing her Pokemon to hard. Ash already did that, so he might try to convince her, that he made the same mistake some take ago. He might catch her both shoulders and try to calm her down. I don't think Serena would try to argue with him, but even if she will, I expect from Ash's side to try his best to not argue with her. XY Ash is capable of that I think. If they won't argue (I'm hoping for that) Ash might try to boost confidence in her, like she did after his first battle agaisnt Viola.
 
I rather see as Serena pushing her Pokemon to hard. Ash already did that, so he might try to convince her, that he made the same mistake some take ago. He might catch her both shoulders and try to calm her down. I don't think Serena would try to argue with him, but even if she will, I expect from Ash's side to try his best to not argue with her. XY Ash is capable of that I think. If they won't argue (I'm hoping for that) Ash might try to boost confidence in her, like she did after his first battle agaisnt Viola.

I see that happening. He would try to stop her from being too hard on her Pokemon. But then she'd snap at him saying that she knows what she is doing. Ash would just back off rather than argue back. In my opinion, he would need a much bigger reason than that to argue back to her- especially considering the fact that he didn't argue with her despite her not exactly showing gratitude when that camera blew up in that Pokevision episode.
 

mavyric

Member
Howdy everyone and fellow Amourshippers, I've lurked around for sometime but finally decided to register and post in lieu of the upcoming episode. This will be my first post here on this forum.

Pokemon was a large part of my childhood when I was 9~10, and through the years I’ve watched it on and off, from OS all the way up to DP. I must admit as time went on, my interest in the franchise increasingly waned, because at the end of the day, the formulas repeat themselves. Traveling to another gym yadda yadda, conflict occurs yadda yadda, resolve conflict, and finally tackle on a lesson of friendship/pokemon bonding/insert other moral here.

It doesn’t help that with each new generation the series essentially resets itself, kicking out the old cast and Pokemon with new ones, and over time I just could not bother to care anymore.

So imagine my surprise when I found out they were slightly mixing the formula up by adding a character that has a canon crush on Ash. I was even more surprised by the fact that the writers are apparently treating this subplot seriously instead of using it as a running gag. What do you know, could it be that after all these years we will finally get a Pokemon anime with more complex character development and emotional depth?

I understand that there are many fans of other ships, and indeed people who dislike shipping in general, but I must admit, for me this is the sole reason I’ve regained interest in the Pokemon anime and the franchise as a whole. (Of course, it also helps that I consider Serena to be the most interesting character of the franchise so far, but I digress)

Anyways, since I’m obviously an Amourshipper, this episode will be of much significance to me, and to Amourshipping in general. I took the time to follow the entire discussion thread, and it seems there are lots of unrealistic predictions or naysaying from both sides of the ship.

Now I obviously want Amourshipping to succeed, but it should be done in a logical and methodical way, not as an afterthought. This means that any “confession” or “kiss on cheek” nonsense should not be happening here.

Instead, this is what I would like to see in the episode, that I feel would be far more beneficial to the ship in general.


1.On the term “first date”:
I think it should be fairly obvious that “date” here is more used in the term of having a one on one outing, and it should be as simple as that. You don’t have to be a couple to be on a date you know. At the end of the day, it’s what you DO during that date that actually matters. If you have a good time, with meaningful interactions and good in-depth discussions that allows you to know each other better, then that is a successful date in my book, which will pave to way for more interactions in the future. And frankly, that is what Amourshipping needs at this stage- more meaningful alone time between Ash and Serena

Of course, bonus points if somebody else teases them about their little “date,” since it would be nice to get their reactions. Best case scenario would go something along the lines like this:
“Random Person: So how did your little date go?”
“Serena, Ash: D...d....d....date?”
“Ash: No, no, you got it all wrong!”
“Serena: We were just shopping for Pokemon gifts”
“Random Person: Ahh….I see”
“Ash/Serena: But you know, today was pretty fun.”
“Ash/Serena: Yes it was, we should do this again sometime!”


2. On what actually happens during the episode:
Now again, thinking back to what I just said above, Ash and Serena really need more deep bonding time like they had during the cliff episode in the summer camp arc. It would be nice if during this episode we can get the two to talk more about their past, as well as their dreams and goals. Especially for Serena, this would help with her character development even further.

I will also be pleased if Serena goes through her thought process on how she chooses costumes and accessories for her performance. It’s understandable that performances take a backseat from battles, but if you’re going to make performing the goal of the female lead, then there better be some more information about it!

Another important progress point is for Serena to actually show her affection towards Ash. Now we as viewers have already got many scenes and scenarios where it’s obvious Serena is crushing on Ash. People are quick to point out how dense Ash is in regards to matters like romance, or how he would never know if a girl actually likes him, but the fact remains that Serena has yet to directly show any of her affection towards Ash directly. For all intents and purposes, she has been relatively low-key around Ash, with most interactions being completely normal. The only times Serena has outwardly shown signs to Ash was during XY007 (where Ash was too busy scarfing down cookies) and during that cliff episode (and hey, Ash actually noticed something was off that time!)

We already see the try-for-hand-grab scene from the preview, but honestly that’s not enough. Blushing is cute and all, but ultimately meaningless if your crush does not see it. We need Serena to do something in front of Ash that could possibly hint of her affection towards him. It’s unfair to call Ash dense based on past observation during this XY sega when he hasn’t even been given a chance to pick up on anything yet!

3. On the “promise”
Again, here I think it’s fairly obvious the wish/promise will be Pokemon Master-related for Ash, and Pokemon Performer-related for Serena. Any wish/promise towards Amourshipping will be OOC for the show as a whole.

HOWEVER, wording is an important point here. I think for Amourshippers the best case scenario would be for their wish to be worded “I hope we can reach our goals together”

That is the only scenario that would both make sense for the show AND give progress for Amourshipping


4. The “present”
Now here is where the most interesting point of this episode will be for me.

With the wording of “THE present,” it’s highly probable that either Ash or Serena will give each other a present. I was originally leaning towards Serena, but judging from previews it seems more and more likely that it’s actually Ash who buys a present for Serena.

Now I say this is interesting because for this XY generation, it’s my hunch that the writers are more focusing on the emotional bond between the lead male and female instead of direct support such as cheering or training. Again, think back to gym 1 and gym 3, where both times Ash got his breakthrough because of words that Serena said to him. Now I love Serena to death, but no one should be delusional as to think she’s a great battler. Same goes for Ash and his fashion/beauty sense. Since it’s harder for to two to support each other directly, I think the writers decided to go with this indirect route of emotional support (and hey, it fits with the whole “crush” theme”)

So I think it’s a very high possibility that this “present” will be the catalyst for either Ash or Serena’s victory in one of their future battles/performances. That in itself will also be a huge victory for Amourshippers.


So anyways, I think that’s a long enough prediction/hope for this episode, and honestly I would declare this episode a victory for Amourshipping if even 50% of what I listed above comes true.
 

Welcome to this forum, fellow AmourShipper!

As to your points, on a whole, I agree with you. However there are some things I would like to point out. First off, your first point. I believe that the "first date" title in the episode has been addressed by the preview. Serena hesitatingly asks, "Is...this...a date?!" while narrating the preview. So I believe that we will see her attempting to battle her feelings for Ash to concentrate on the shopping instead of the shipping (I just had to do that xD) There may even be no reference to the "first date" in the episode. It may simply be a title for our reference.

Second point, no arguments there. I agree with you.

Third point, as far as I know, there's nothing about any promise in this episode. The "Vow Tree" is simply the name of the festival, or so I think where the tree in question is, in fact, the Courmarine Gym. So I don't think we'll see the promise there. Cute scenario nevertheless.

Fourth point. Ah...the present. Definitely the most interesting point of this episode. The only thing I disagree with you slightly is the fact that you say Serena knows very little about battling. While she battles less, she does have significant knowledge of the subject. She knows type advantages and disadvantages, she knows super effective moves, etc. So it isn't that she knows nothing. But for all practical purposes, she can't really help him out with strategies and stuff- so your point stands. However, I think we'll see even that at some point. Initially, I inclined towards the possibility of her giving the winning strategy against Clemont for the fifth badge. Now I say it will be against the seventh Gym.

But otherwise, I do agree with your fourth point about emotional support. And I believe that the gift that Ash gives Serena will hold some deep significance. Now I know this is a very, very wild guess, but I say that the gift will hold significance in the Forget arc, if we are to see it. Long ago, there was speculation about a certain Forget arc, where Serena loses her memories, and the others, especially Ash, try to help her regain them. So this gift, and the handkerchief will be seen there. Otherwise, I still say it would be something significant- like that handkerchief, but I don't know in what way.

And we have seen enough to know that this will be heavy with hints. So I think we can sleep in peace and enjoy the episode thoroughly :D
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Fourth point. Ah...the present. Definitely the most interesting point of this episode. The only thing I disagree with you slightly is the fact that you say Serena knows very little about battling. While she battles less, she does have significant knowledge of the subject. She knows type advantages and disadvantages, she knows super effective moves, etc. So it isn't that she knows nothing. But for all practical purposes, she can't really help him out with strategies and stuff- so your point stands. However, I think we'll see even that at some point. Initially, I inclined towards the possibility of her giving the winning strategy against Clemont for the fifth badge. Now I say it will be against the seventh Gym.

But otherwise, I do agree with your fourth point about emotional support. And I believe that the gift that Ash gives Serena will hold some deep significance. Now I know this is a very, very wild guess, but I say that the gift will hold significance in the Forget arc, if we are to see it. Long ago, there was speculation about a certain Forget arc, where Serena loses her memories, and the others, especially Ash, try to help her regain them. So this gift, and the handkerchief will be seen there. Otherwise, I still say it would be something significant- like that handkerchief, but I don't know in what way :D

Honestly, I'd still curb expectations of Ash most definitely giving Serena a gift. There's still no real proof that he does. The box he's holding in the preview, he also seems to open on the train based on one of the scans, if it was for her he probably wouldn't have opened it so early.
 
Honestly, I'd still curb expectations of Ash most definitely giving Serena a gift. There's still no real proof that he does. The box he's holding in the preview, he also seems to open on the train based on one of the scans, if it was for her he probably wouldn't have opened it so early.

I don't understand either where these guys are getting the impression that Satoshi would give Serena a gift. The other way around looked more believable IMO. If it was the present shown in the preview, I agree that that was the box on one of the earlier scans that they were both looking at. It will not make sense if he'd give it to her, seeing that both of them are already aware of what's inside.
 

Zack_in_Black

Truly Electrifying
I don't understand either where these guys are getting the impression that Satoshi would give Serena a gift. The other way around looked more believable IMO. If it was the present shown in the preview, I agree that that was the box on one of the earlier scans that they were both looking at. It will not make sense if he'd give it to her, seeing that both of them are already aware of what's inside.

I see where you are coming from with this point and same with Graham. However just because they are staring at it in one of the scans we got doesn't necessarily mean that they opened it, so I guess I don't exactly see where you are getting the idea that she already knows what is inside is more likely than not. There is no solid proof that they opened the box on the monorail, and actually very little abstract proof. My best guess would be that Serena asks who the gift is for and he says anyone but her and then later on gives it to her like in the preview, explaining the surprised and blushing face of Serena and that look Ash gives.

I think that is really the best way of explaining how Serena could get that surprised (good surprised) look on her face when we see what we think is Ash giving her the gift. I think they give out those scans to give us something to think about for awhile and develop a theory and then release the preview to sorta switch our initial thoughts, or at least give better context. I mean originally we all thought Serena was gonna give Ash a gift when those scans were released, but now we all think (with a few exceptions of course) that Ash will give the gift to Serena. We make our best inference on the information given but when more is given out we change accordingly. I do have to accept your possibility as well though because we can't take any chances now can we. I just think that based on the information we have there isn't really any other conclusion I could possibly draw from it.
 
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I see where you are coming from with this point and same with Graham. However just because they are staring at it in one of the scans we got doesn't necessarily mean that they opened it, so I guess I don't exactly see where you are getting the idea that she already knows what is inside is more likely than not. There is no solid proof that they opened the box on the monorail, and actually very little abstract proof. My best guess would be that Serena asks who the gift is for and he says anyone but her and then later on gives it to her like in the preview, explaining the surprised and blushing face of Serena and that look Ash gives.

I think that is really the best way of explaining how Serena could get that surprised (good surprised) look on her face when we see what we think is Ash giving her the gift. I think they give out those scans to give us something to think about for awhile and develop a theory and then release the preview to sorta switch our initial thoughts, or at least give better context. I mean originally we all thought Serena was gonna give Ash a gift when those scans were released, but now we all think (with a few exceptions of course) that Ash will give the gift to Serena. We make our best inference on the information given but when more is given out we change accordingly. I do have to accept your possibility as well though because we can't take any chances now can we. I just think that based on the information we have there isn't really any other conclusion I could possibly draw from it.

http://i.imgur.com/ezbCAVb.jpg
From the scan, it looks more like they've already seen what's inside. Satoshi seemed surprised while Serena looked more happy about it. Unless he replaces what's inside, I see no reason why he'd give it to her like that. As I've said, it's more believable to think that it's Serena's gift to Satoshi, not the other way around.
 

XYMewtwo

Rising Star
What if Ash is just reacting to the gift in itself? Ash could be telling Serena how much that particular gift means to him and/or how she has always been there for him or anything along those lines, as Serena is definitely surprised in a good way in that particular scene. Ash also must have said something pretty strong, or else he wouldn't have been scratching his nose or rubbing his upper lip or whatever he's doing in the preview :b
 

Ryuzardx

Active Member
What if Ash is just reacting to the gift in itself? Ash could be telling Serena how much that particular gift means to him and/or how she has always been there for him or anything along those lines, as Serena is definitely surprised in a good way in that particular scene. Ash also must have said something pretty strong, or else he wouldn't have been scratching his nose or rubbing his upper lip or whatever he's doing in the preview :b

I personally think that Ash gave the present to Serena and he said "The gift is for you". That's what you think to be 'pretty strong'

I doubt it's "I love you, Serena" --That's using Ash's basic personality too loosely.
 
What I also don't get is aren't all the gifts for the Pokemon? Ash and Serena weren't buying gifts for each other or the Clemont/Bonnie duo, they're buying all gifts for the Pokemon.

So whatever Ash is giving Serena is probably for her pokemon, not herself.
 

Zack_in_Black

Truly Electrifying
http://i.imgur.com/ezbCAVb.jpg
From the scan, it looks more like they've already seen what's inside. Satoshi seemed surprised while Serena looked more happy about it. Unless he replaces what's inside, I see no reason why he'd give it to her like that. As I've said, it's more believable to think that it's Serena's gift to Satoshi, not the other way around.

I have to say that I hadn't seen that scan. And now I fully understand where you are coming from and I must admit it seems like good evidence in your case.

However, I think that Ash wouldn't regift something to Serena, or give a gift to her that she already knew about, but based on Ash;s gestures in the preview, it does look pretty clear that he is giving her the gift. It doesn't in any way look to me like he is receiving anything.

And in reference to cybercubed's point, honestly even though I am an optimist, I must admit, that is the original point of them going shopping so it seems as though that might be the logical point. I think though that even if it is a gift for Fennekin, which if it is a gift for a pokemon that seems most logical, it would still be extremely meaningful that he got a gift for HER pokemon and it would show he does somewhat have a clue.

My choice still lies in the idea of Ash getting Serena a gift, I mean the title does elude to a single present and not plural. This leads me to believe that whatever he hands Serena is really the central point of the episode as it is the only gift that is clearly being given. We would need context to fully understand what is happening in those previews and context is the one thing we don't have here. We could all be wrong considering what we have been given to go on.

Right now all we have is a battle of opinions and we won't truly know what is really going on until we see the episode. And honestly battling with opinions is the best part about this thread.
 

XYMewtwo

Rising Star
What I also don't get is aren't all the gifts for the Pokemon? Ash and Serena weren't buying gifts for each other or the Clemont/Bonnie duo, they're buying all gifts for the Pokemon.

So whatever Ash is giving Serena is probably for her pokemon, not herself.

Even if it is for her Pokemon, it's probably going to mean a lot to Serena regardless of how small the gift actually is. It's like that one handkerchief back in XY007. I feel like this gift (If Ash even gives one to Serena) would probably play a later part in an episode or even an arc, as Pokesrini said before.

I personally think that Ash gave the present to Serena and he said "The gift is for you". That's what you think to be 'pretty strong'

I doubt it's "I love you, Serena" --That's using Ash's basic personality too loosely.

Oh and yeah ofc I didn't mean that Ash would be giving an all out confession. Not even the most optimistic Amourshipper could actually expect that to happen from both sides in about 2 days. I meant that Ash would probably be showcasing some gratitude to Serena's gift, or maybe a speech of how Serena's helped him along his Kalos journey and also how he thinks that he should have the gift he bought her.
 
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JSLatios

REVIVAL ON 9TH!!!
http://i.imgur.com/ezbCAVb.jpg
From the scan, it looks more like they've already seen what's inside. Satoshi seemed surprised while Serena looked more happy about it. Unless he replaces what's inside, I see no reason why he'd give it to her like that. As I've said, it's more believable to think that it's Serena's gift to Satoshi, not the other way around.

He might me be just getting the gift out. (Ash: "Lemme just get this particular gift out") and Serena might be asking why and who it is for. Ash then tells that it is Pikachus gift and doesn't want to mix it in with all the Pokemons gift and says it's something special. But then in the end gives it to Serena. Well whatever way, someones gifting someone
 
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