Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

[szmty]

(I posted a couple of times in the V1 thread, but now I'm back. I don't expect you to remember me, though)

I watched the episode with subs a couple of hours ago (Spanish subs are very fast!), and well, even though I wasn't really expecting a fan fiction-worthy story, I'm pretty disappointed...
I already knew that nothing too big was going to happen. As you people say, we've seen about a 1/3 of the series; it's still relatively early, so it would not make sense to let the ship sail at full power at this point. However, I'm dissatisfied with the way this episode was promoted. The episode's trailers pretty much spoiled the strongest shippy scenes of the episode. Heck, half the title is: "Satoshi and Serena's Date!?", and only a few minutes of the episode were "dedicated" to the idea of Ash and Serena "dating". It's not exactly "trolling", but they're trying to create a lot of hype so kids stop watching Yôkai Watch and return to Pokémon.

Now let's analyse that a bit further: the question mark in the title practically spoils you that it could or not be all in Serena's mind (and in the end, it was), but I think that the writers wasted a potentially funny and shippy plot. I'm not saying that they should have used Gastro Acid to suppress Ash's Oblivious ability and have him act lovey-dovey all of the sudden; again, this is not the moment. But they could have dedicated a few minutes of the episode to Serena; having her be all nervous and misinterpreting Ash's actions for romantic ones, even if he's not noticing anything. Instead of uselessly throwing Team Rocket in the episode, those 'wasted' three minutes could have been about Ash and Serena being together. Instead, Ash and Serena spend most of the episode separate from each other, and that's what I like the least of this episode. It's okay to showcase Ash's density, but they shouldn't have gone to the point of having him say: "Hey! I'll go to X place while you go to Y place!". Even Serena felt disappointment there.

Again, if they had Ash and Serena doing activities together for those three minutes that were wasted in Team Rocket, I would be much more satisfied. And when I say activities, I don't mean hugging or kissing or anything else that won't happen anytime soon. I mean simple things like showing them together looking for gifts, rather than just having Ash trying silly hats and pointing at Jigglypuff-Meowth hybrids. Seeing them eat together at a restaurant would have been a very good and realistic scenario; there you could have Serena nervous about being alone with Ash in a typical situation that could have mistaken for a date, while Ash could have kept is denseness by eating a lot.

 

[Red and Blue]

But it was Pikachu who gave the flower to Ash to give to Iris. Here, he did it on his own.

What else would he have done with it. He had no use for a ribbon so might as well give it to serena. It's not like he bought it for her anyways

 

[_Dog]

Why people think than this episode was good for shpping development, Nothing really happen.

I feel the need to quote Graham Aker here.

People disappointed about the episode, what a shocker *rolls eyes*

I guess:

1.) Serena blushing trying to hold Ash's hand and then playing it off like nothing is wrong.
2.) Serena blushing at Ash on the Mono-Rail.
3.) Serena pouting that Ash left her, because she wanted to spend more time with him.
4.) Serena blushing at Ash giving her a gift and saying she'll treasure it.
5.) Ash giving Serena a gift.

But I guess, since they weren't together for the entire episode it was a complete failure. Go figure.

Seems like his post applies to Amourshipping's critics as well. Don't pretend nothing happened. Based on your other posts you don't seem supportive of the pairing, but don't let it skew your view. This also applies to Amourshipping's adherents.

I had low expectations for the episode, as the previews clearly showed that the "date" would be one-sided on Serena's part. It's also evident that both the writers and Amourshippers have hyped the episode to an insane level. But two things I've gotten out of this is 1) Serena's crush on Ash is as alive as ever, and 2) Ash's gift to her might constitute a hint if something important comes out of it. I have not been convinced that Ash has given any hints at all throughout the series, but his action in today's episode has put me on the fence when it comes to being a hint or not. We'll have to wait to see if it really means something more than what we've seen. However, the fact that Serena's feelings remain strong and the fact that Ash's dense fortress may have taken a chip is satisfactory in my eyes, even if there were areas of improvement. The ship remains alive.

 

[calvinhobbesliker]

What else would he have done with it. He had no use for a ribbon so might as well give it to serena. It's not like he bought it for her anyways

You're right. To be honest, although I'm glad he gave her a gift, I'm a bit disappointed that it was done in almost the worst manner possible. But maybe it'll be used later and have greater meaning.

 

[PrimalRayquazaEX]

To everyone who is citing this episode as a disappointment, be patient. We have to wait and just like ScienceIsSoAmazing said if the writers went all out with it there would be no more fuel in the tank. Yeah my expectations are high but we have to realize we still have a long way to develop this ship. We are only about a 1/3 into the series. We still got a lot of time left for development and plus, the writers have gone all out to make it at least half-canon and they are for sure not gonna leave Amour hanging like this.
Just like Green Bay Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers said we got to R-E-L-A-X.

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

I have admit that the date episode was like an arrow to my knee kokoro. But after giving it some time and reading some valid points, I am able to collect my thoughts about this.

Anyway, I do agree that the episode pretty much confirms that Serena is still holding onto that feelings and she may have to hide it all for her until the right time comes. I am not expecting her to confess anytime at the moment either but I do want her to be a bit more open with her feelings for Ash. Although the real problem lies within Ash himself. Not only he is dense but he has a one track mind. Take episode 53 for example. He did ask Serena if something is wrong but then Serena tells him it's nothing and he was like "oh, okay never mind then, later!" and off he goes. The date episode also pretty much confirms it. He was too focused on finding his presents that he did not bother asking Serena if there's somewhere that she wants to check. End result was that their supposed to be shopping together became a separate shopping.

Quite honest, I will not blame Ash for it. It's his nature and I like that quirk of his. Maybe what I want from Serena is that she needs to be a bit pushy towards Ash. I am not saying that she needs to gain a lot of his attention. I want her to realize that if she wants something from Ash, she needs to open up towards him and try not to be as shy as possible about it. Ash is a gentle person, I don't think he'd be rude and reject her easily anyway, especially now that he has a more matured personality.

 

[mavyric]

(I posted a couple of times in the V1 thread, but now I'm back. I don't expect you to remember me, though)

I watched the episode with subs a couple of hours ago (Spanish subs are very fast!), and well, even though I wasn't really expecting a fan fiction-worthy story, I'm pretty disappointed...
I already knew that nothing too big was going to happen. As you people say, we've seen about a 1/3 of the series; it's still relatively early, so it would not make sense to let the ship sail at full power at this point. However, I'm dissatisfied with the way this episode was promoted. The episode's trailers pretty much spoiled the strongest shippy scenes of the episode. Heck, half the title is: "Satoshi and Serena's Date!?", and only a few minutes of the episode were "dedicated" to the idea of Ash and Serena "dating". It's not exactly "trolling", but they're trying to create a lot of hype so kids stop watching Yôkai Watch and return to Pokémon.

Now let's analyse that a bit further: the question mark in the title practically spoils you that it could or not be all in Serena's mind (and in the end, it was), but I think that the writers wasted a potentially funny and shippy plot. I'm not saying that they should have used Gastro Acid to suppress Ash's Oblivious ability and have him act lovey-dovey all of the sudden; again, this is not the moment. But they could have dedicated a few minutes of the episode to Serena; having her be all nervous and misinterpreting Ash's actions for romantic ones, even if he's not noticing anything. Instead of uselessly throwing Team Rocket in the episode, those 'wasted' three minutes could have been about Ash and Serena being together. Instead, Ash and Serena spend most of the episode separate from each other, and that's what I like the least of this episode. It's okay to showcase Ash's density, but they shouldn't have gone to the point of having him say: "Hey! I'll go to X place while you go to Y place!". Even Serena felt disappointment there.

Again, if they had Ash and Serena doing activities together for those three minutes that were wasted in Team Rocket, I would be much more satisfied. And when I say activities, I don't mean hugging or kissing or anything else that won't happen anytime soon. I mean simple things like showing them together looking for gifts, rather than just having Ash trying silly hats and pointing at Jigglypuff-Meowth hybrids. Seeing them eat together at a restaurant would have been a very good and realistic scenario; there you could have Serena nervous about being alone with Ash in a typical situation that could have mistaken for a date, while Ash could have kept is denseness by eating a lot.

Agreed.

It's not like the disappointed people are saying they want this to be romantic episode, it just feels kinda sour with the way they promoted it and how little screentime they got together in the end.

I wouldn't even mind if the scenes of them being together weren't shippy at all. I just want them to have more meaningful interactions with one another. You don't jump into a relationship without first having a solid foundation of understanding, and so far Ash/Serena are lacking in that department. Not to mention, there's still a lot that we as viewers have to privilege of knowing, yet they don't know about each other.

Serena could've opened up on how her personality was before she set out on this journey, or Ash could've further expanded on his pokemon master dream, and how many times he's failed at winning a league (and hey, it can even tie-in to the "never give up" motto)

Serena STILL hasn't showed open signs of shyness directly in front of Ash.


Again, I'm well aware that this is still relatively early in the saga, so it's not like I'm declaring this ship is dead. When all is said, this episode is still a net positive for Amourshipping.

But that doesn't mean I'm not upset with the writers in how they handled or promoted this episode.

 

[pixcalibur]

Maybe not easy for them to do, but may be better to not put so much stuff in the previews and stuff. That way, any half-decent stuff would maintain more of its shock value rather than already seeing those scenes beforehand.

If one takes XY7 as an example, didn't have too much in the previews besides a couple images or so. The major stuff remained hidden until the episode itself came out.

So no need to add tons of shippy scenes, which wouldn't be good at this point in the series anyway, but rather just keep the stuff hidden until the episode actually airs, and then people can do whatever they want with what they watch.

 

[Zack_in_Black]

Well I decided that maybe I should give this episode another chance and watch it again, this time I did so without taking into consideration the hype and title associated with it. And I can honestly say that this made a huge difference for me and I ended up enjoying it much more than I previously did.

In reality, I think I overlooked much of the episode before because I was just hoping beyond all hope that there would be some major hints in there. But when there weren't I got a bit disappointed and that led to me giving this episode less credit than it actually deserves. After re-watching it though I sort of gained a bit more appreciation for what the writers gave us even though it didn't live up to the hype.

I mean where have we even seen anything like this in previous generations. Ash gave her a gift, which he just conveniently won beforehand (writers sorta hinting at something there), the scenes where the frame focused in on just them (a few of which had Serena looking adoringly at Ash), and then I think that they used backgrounds in their favor here to give off a somewhat romantic feeling of it all even though one wouldn't really consider the scene itself romantic (sunsets, fireworks, and essentially a giant Christmas tree in the background seemed a bit romantic at least).

So I believe that even though we didn't receive the big direct hints in this episode that we might have been expecting, I think that in general the entire mood of the episode, which was exacerbated by the backdrops, just gave off a romantic feel to the episode as well. This sort of compensates for the lack of direct hints here and actually makes for quite the enjoyable episode in my opinion. And I think that was the writers' plans all along, to make it feel romantic even if that isn't necessarily the case.

And now that I look at it objectively, I think what the writers did here actually works and was a smart way of going about it. They don't want to overload to much at the beginning cause it sorta limits what they can do later on and the show would slowly become less enjoyable for amour shippers like us. If they had overloaded on this episode I think it would have actually been worse in the long road for the ship even though it might seem amazing for a little bit. And taking into account we will probably have between 180-220 episodes in this series, it seems a bit out of place to push so hard early on like this.

So in conclusion I think that I can honestly give this episode a 9 out of 10 at least and I actually appreciate what the writers did for us here even with how much of a troll I thought it was earlier on. It adds to possibilities later on instead of taking away from them and still managed to give us a truly one-of-a-kind episode overall. I think that they know they are digging a hole for themselves and that they have a plan to resolve everything that pleases us all.

Now I thought of something that might be another case in which they can add to the ship.
What if when the group gets to Lumiose, Clemont and Bonnie head to the gym to prepare and leave our couple by themselves. Do you think that those many cafes in Lumiose could be of use in a similar "date" episode?

Edit: I do agree that the previews spoiled the best parts and had those parts been left out of the preview, we might have not gotten the response that we did.

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

Now I thought of something that might be another case in which they can add to the ship.
What if when the group gets to Lumiose, Clemont and Bonnie head to the gym to prepare and leave our couple by themselves. Do you think that those many cafes in Lumiose could be of use in a similar "date" episode?

Hmm, if that were to happen, then that's what I'd consider a date (well not a 'date' date but you get the idea). Heck, I'd find that better than said "date" in the last episode. I agree with pixcalibur that it would be much better if the hints remained hidden within the episode instead of hyping it all in a preview or two (Just look at episode 7 and how precious it is without being spoiled of its hints). The episode itself is not at fault but rather, the way how the writers or whoever is in charge have pushed it. As stated by CyberCubed earlier. We got enough hints for the date episode. It's just that they were already spoiled. I am not going to look forward to that scenario of yours but should that happen then definitely, I'd pretty much prefer to call it as their 1st official date, regardless if it's canon or not.

 

[--VIRGO--]

After watching this episode I think we should feel positively surprised. Most of you guys were complaining about not getting as much as you expected judging from the preview. You're expected (including myself tbh) that Ash and Serena should stick together for the entire time with each other. We would see hints. That for sure. My point. We've got a hint from Ash's side. That's something we want more. Serena's hint are common. But Ash's are rare and that's what makes them precious. I feel satisfied.

 

[pokesrini]

Im starting to think those rumors about Serena losing her memories might be true and that the ribbon might be something they use to help her get them back.
The idea is pretty far off but meh...

The Forget Arc. I love that arc for some reason...just for the strong potential it holds. If there is one thing that I know can totally tear down Ash's obliviousness, it is that. Of course, there may be other stuff too...just that I can't think of any.

I totally agree with Maldread.
Nothing is goin to happen in the end of XY series.

Oh? Since you can predict the future, please tell me the name of the next region, and the names of its three starters? Also, which country is it based on this time?

I wonder why people kept saying that this is the first time Satoshi gave a present to his female companion. Didn't he already gave Iris a gift, which is a flower or am I missing things out? (Never saw BW but this is one of the hints for Negai if I can remember correctly)

The answer to that:

But it was Pikachu who gave the flower to Ash to give to Iris. Here, he did it on his own.

What else would he have done with it. He had no use for a ribbon so might as well give it to serena. It's not like he bought it for her anyways

You are downplaying its significance, again. Doesn't it strike you as odd that he conveniently wins a present that seems worthy of presenting only to a girl? Also remember that he didn't even know what to buy for his Pokemon. do you think he would know what to buy for Serena? And that too at such short notice? Making him go all the way out to buy something for her would be far too big a hint. Gift is a gift. I still consider it a big deal.

Anyway, I do agree that the episode pretty much confirms that Serena is still holding onto that feelings and she may have to hide it all for her until the right time comes. I am not expecting her to confess anytime at the moment either but I do want her to be a bit more open with her feelings for Ash. Although the real problem lies within Ash himself. Not only he is dense but he has a one track mind. Take episode 53 for example. He did ask Serena if something is wrong but then Serena tells him it's nothing and he was like "oh, okay never mind then, later!" and off he goes. The date episode also pretty much confirms it. He was too focused on finding his presents that he did not bother asking Serena if there's somewhere that she wants to check. End result was that their supposed to be shopping together became a separate shopping.

Well I think that in the expectations generated by the episode title and previews, people started to expect Ash to stay with Serena the whole time. If you think about it, he did spend a lot of time with her on screen. A significant bit. Around 60% plus of the episode was dominated by scenes that included Ash and Serena. That's good enough. Moreover, the high value scenes, such as the first one where she just finishes registering for her Tripokelon, the monorail scene and most importantly, the gift scene more than make up for the blandness (in terms of hints) of the other scenes.

Ash hints are rare, remember that. Anything from his side is considered a huge plus. Like I said, there's nothing that the OtherShippers wouldn't do to get that hint. The list of Ash's hints in the XY saga for Amour are bigger than the cumulative lists of most other ships, not to mention Serena's.

-------------------------------------------

Now for a couple of points I wanted to make. I won't lie. I was disappointed the first time i saw it. But then I let it sink in for a while, and I thought- what if I knew nothing about the date episode? What if I saw no previews, read no summaries...in general, I knew absolutely nothing about such an episode. I think most of you, if you are honest to yourself, you would've been jumping up and down screaming away about Ash giving that gift to her. Heck...I can't believe that AmourShippers are the ones complaining here, and the guys who usually rain on our parties are the ones saying that it was satisfactory, and it actually progressed Amour?

The second point- this is for the naysayers. Now I read some suggestions in this thread that the "date" in the title and the hype surrounding this episode was to simply draw kids from watching some other cartoon to watching Pokemon. Two incisive points:

1. Do you think drawing them using false hype would mean anything? They would just watch this episode, get disappointed, and continue watching that other cartoon. They would think of making them stay with Pokemon if anything, and that can only be done if you live up to their expectations. As such, I doubt this episode was meant for those people. They know nothing about Pokemon, and an episode that focuses on shipping isn't exactly the best episode for an introduction.

2. Aren't you the first ones to scream that AmourShipping would never happen because romance cannot happen in a kids' show? Then why are you pulling up that point that the title and the hype was to draw children from watching another show...when this episode was clearly filled with romantic undertones?

Dislike the ship, fine. But at least give some coherent points.

UPDATE: To AmourShippers. I want you to think of this. Do you remember what we were like when we didn't get hints in XY050 and XY051? We were like, "Ah no problem! We know there's a very shippy episode coming up in the form of XY059..." and such. We took it for granted that we were going to get good hints. I include myself in that. My point here is, for an episode that we knew nothing about, we started taking things so much for granted, and we lost a lot of hype for the future episodes. So imagine if we got some solid, incontrovertible hints from Ash here? Wouldn't that kill off a lot of suspense? Do you think the writers would want to do such a thing? I feel this is the best explanation for you guys who weren't convinced by this point.

 

[shipperfan]

This forget arc I keep hearing about....it's just a rumor right?

 

[pokesrini]

This forget arc I keep hearing about....it's just a rumor right?

It is, for all practical purposes. There was a wild prediction by someone, I think on Tumblr...who called Serena's redesign accurately at least. And this was quite long back. He also called Ash's Goodra, Clemont's Luxray, and I think he even called Serena's Braixen correctly! He mentioned episode numbers too, I just can't remember which ones exactly. He also made some brazen predictions, such as Ash leaving his sixth slot empty till he reaches the league, and that Serena's Pancham will evolve to Pangoro in XY067 (this one, I clearly remember); and finally, the Forget arc.

Now here's the thing. Most of his predictions that came true were quite easy. But like I said, he made such brazen predictions too. To me, it sounds like bogus. But I'm willing to give him a rope. I'll wait till XY067. If Pancham doesn't evolve there (which I strongly feel will be the case), it is trash. If it does, then...well...

He said that he worked for CoroCoro I think, and he knew the material that came from the company. But it could very well be some crank in Tumblr. All in all, don't believe him for now. And assume that there is no Forget arc.

 

[Tourist Juan]

This forget arc I keep hearing about....it's just a rumor right?

Yes, so far it is.
But people bring it up (including myself) because of its potential as a story.
I certainly wouldnt mind seeing a story arc like that.
But in the end it all depends on the writers and how they go about telling the story if they do so at all.

 

[pokesrini]

at least this episode teach a lot of people to not believe more in the Staff of the Series, they play with the feelings and expectatives of a lot of people just for nothing more than Small breadcrumbs.

This happen before (episode 20) and this happen again, the next time you see an title episode with shippy undertones do not believe in it.

We can argue that they overhyped the episode(s), but we cannot say we were ever misled. And if what we've gotten so far in the series are small breadcrumbs, then I suppose the other ships just got wheat-grains. All that this teaches people is to separate hype, speculations and stuff from the episode itself. I can promise you that anyone who watched the episode forgetting about all the previous hype was perfectly satisfied.

 

[shipperfan]

It is, for all practical purposes. There was a wild prediction by someone, I think on Tumblr...who called Serena's redesign accurately at least. And this was quite long back. He also called Ash's Goodra, Clemont's Luxray, and I think he even called Serena's Braixen correctly! He mentioned episode numbers too, I just can't remember which ones exactly. He also made some brazen predictions, such as Ash leaving his sixth slot empty till he reaches the league, and that Serena's Pancham will evolve to Pangoro in XY067 (this one, I clearly remember); and finally, the Forget arc.

Now here's the thing. Most of his predictions that came true were quite easy. But like I said, he made such brazen predictions too. To me, it sounds like bogus. But I'm willing to give him a rope. I'll wait till XY067. If Pancham doesn't evolve there (which I strongly feel will be the case), it is trash. If it does, then...well...

He said that he worked for CoroCoro I think, and he knew the material that came from the company. But it could very well be some crank in Tumblr. All in all, don't believe him for now. And assume that there is no Forget arc.

Yes, so far it is.
But people bring it up (including myself) because of its potential as a story.
I certainly wouldnt mind seeing a story arc like that.
But in the end it all depends on the writers and how they go about telling the story if they do so at all.

That would definitely make for a fun/interesting new twist. And not too far from episode 67 so we shall see XD

 

[--VIRGO--]

at least this episode teach a lot of people to not believe more in the Staff of the Series, they play with the feelings and expectatives of a lot of people just for nothing more than Small breadcrumbs.

This happen before (episode 20) and this happen again, the next time you see an title episode with shippy undertones do not believe in it.

They just want people to watch it. I still agree with pokesrini. This episode had plenty of hints. Ash giving a gift is something.
With Iris the difference is that Ash had remorse due to arguing with her badly and his Pokemon (Pikachu, Charizard, Scraggy, Oshawott, Pignite and Snivy) forced him to such an action. Here he gave Serena gift on his own completely.

 

[Viex]

The issue with the episode is the title...apart from that everything is okay. If I were in charge of the dub I would put a general title to avoid any backlash from fans. I liked the dialogue in the monorail, Serena has a good understanding of how Ash thinks (since she was able to make him realize that he and his pokemon like the same things). It was funny when she told him that the (ugly) hat was a bad idea.

 

[szmty]

The issue with the episode is the title...apart from that everything is okay. If I were in charge of the dub I would put a general title to avoid any backlash from fans. I liked the dialogue in the monorail, Serena has a good understanding of how Ash thinks (since she was able to make him realize that he and his pokemon like the same things). It was funny when she told him that the (ugly) hat was a bad idea.

The title was pretty much made just to create hype, and that's something that I don't like about the Pokéani's marketing strategy. Too many episodes with misleading titles can get people to stop trusting or caring about them. But that's a problem you're bound to have once in a while if you're using the "X thing happens! Y is related to that!!" format for your titles. I hope that the dub avoids making a title similar to that just to lure more viewers and just make a pun like they always do, which honestly seems more likely.

The few moments that Ash and Serena were together (the segment with the ugly hat...) were indeed pretty funny, but again, I wasn't expecting them to be separated after that. They practically spend the entire afternoon away from each other, and from what all you've been commenting, I see that most of you didn't notice that or at least seem to ignore it. Again, I insist that three minutes of the episode were wasted in Team Rocket; they had no reason to appear in this episode, except for the obligatory battle. And that battle could have been done between Ash and Dunsparce (and Dunsparce would have won in the end just to keep the gag running). And again, a scenario with Ash and Serena tired after being at so many stores and then having Ash say "I'm so hungry! I can't search for presents if my stomach is not full" and then having both of them entering a restaurant would have been realistic and would have maintained the "Serena-thinks-this-is-a-date" plot alive. And that's not the only scenario I could think of. There are plenty of short scenarios that could have worked much better, all in the same short timespan.

With that said, this episode did confirmed that Serena is in love with Ash and that Ash is still oblivious, but not as much as he has been in the past. AmourShipping did move a step ahead. There's a lot of pessimistic naysayers claiming that nothing will happen, like always. But I strongly disagree with them. Even though I don't trust the writers that much after yesterday's episode, I still believe they're smart and savvy enough to make a good resolution for this shipping, or else, they wouldn't be pushing it as much. The only shipping I remember to be pushed by the writers/producers was, perhaps, PearlShipping with the "High Touch!" opening. And even then, Ash and Dawn were in the end more like brother and sister in my opinion, though I did shipped them back in the day. PokéShipping did have some push, but most hints were made by 4Kids so...