Amourshipping General Discussion - V.2 *Spoiler Warning*

[matthew11]

Hehehey, looks like things are getting a bit interesting here.

About Satoshi's and Serena's character not suitable for bickering:

This is a case of early judgement. The XY show hasn't finished yet, thus there is always a possibility of them to bicker at some point. Whatever reason they may bicker is fine with me as long as they engage in one. Them bickering isn't to be called OOC, as you have already witnessed Serena's sassiness and Satoshi's childish attitude. These attributes you see in them clearly have the potential to fight each other. You can't darken a room more when it is already dark. You can't fill up a cup with water anymore when it is already full. Both of these circumstances don't go anywhere. The only way for both to continue moving or changing is to light up the room to darken after, and drink the water for you to fill it up again. Much like in a relationship. In a perfect relationship, there is no such thing as a flaw that exist within it; there is no one fighting each other, no one comforting each other, no one apologizing to one another. Doesn't it feel less romantic? The only way to keep a relationship developing further is to have flaws, have disagreement, have something grind the relationship's gears. And in the end of the day, after the man and the woman have settled their situation, they would feel great, having to apologize to one another or to be apologized, having to understand one another's side, having to strengthen their loving bond. Doesn't it sound great?

Feel free to discontinue this discussion, as, like I said, I don't want to stick around in this thread for so long.

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

I think that it's not so much of an absolute need for bickering for canonization but rather the fact that in reality, arguments will arise. I only hope that whatever the argument is, it's not painfully forced like the Ash and Iris conflict in the BW series. The closest thing we had so far to a conflict was the cake episode but Ash didn't retaliate back (imagine how Kanto Ash would have reacted to Serena slapping his hand). xD

Anyways, I noticed this interesting still shot in today's episode. I wonder why it appears Ash and Serena are looking at each other and Serena has a sweat drop.
[spoil]
[img139]http://i.imgur.com/gJtVwq4.png?1[/img139]
[/spoil]

And there was a little moment in the episode when the gang was surrounded by the gambler's henchmen and Serena specifically called out Ash's name. The episode is only "bone dry" if you compare it to the previous episode.

Who knows, maybe Ash and Serena had a lot of arguments off camera, lol. But yeah, arguments aren't really requirements for amour to become canon. It is good for development but as I've said, there are still plenty of ways to develop their relationship without relying on bickering.

Anyway, I'm not really against the idea. I just hope it doesn't turn to the point where Serena will start to think otherwise of her feelings for Ash.

I guess we're not pretty bone-dry after all. We did get some AshxSerena interactions unlike other episodes where they almost did not interact throughout the episode.

 

[platane_hakase]

That is the problem at hand. There's no fight, argument, quarrel, bickering, or whatever you'd call it between the two yet. Without it, there would be no significant character development from either side. You can call this shipping perfect, but be considerate as to what you call it. Being perfect isn't always bad. But without flaws, it can't go any further than it already is.

I agree with Setsuna F. Seisei once more. There is no problem with argument-to-get-closer trope, but it is not necessary too for further development of the ship.

(But I can see many ways in which both can argue. One of them, Serena learning about Chibi Kazumi lure! or the half ribbon shared with Haruka.)

Ross451 brings the question of realism. But in a realistic analysis, bickering with someone is one of the worst way to make he/she becomes romantically interested in us (<s>I know it because in have tryed it many times</s>).

Well, if Amourshipping could be made canon, then the confession might do the thing. Because it will be the first time that Ash ever hear a confession from a girl in his life. And IIRC, Serena haven't got a single fight,nor argument with him.

Moe/Macy had made very explicit advances toward Satoshi after he saved her (blocked by Kazumi).

What would Misty,May,Dawn,and Iris have to say about Ash's relationship with Serena? Especially when Serena become the first girl that Ash ever opened up to other than pokemon. For years, Misty,May,Dawn,and Iris always wanted for Ashy to grow up, but now that he just started to mature due to Serena's influence, what do they plan to do?

Probably not much. I can see Haruka, Hikari and Iris very happy for Satoshi&Serena. The only one that I think could be somewhat jealous is Kazumi. If she hadn't moved on yet. But maybe she is in a Orangeship by now.

Is there anything we can do make Ash developing a romantic relationship with Serena happen?

Yeah. You could send emails to TPC & Tokyo TV expressing how you enjoy the AS. Positive feedbacks (in huge amounts that outnumbers those negative feedbacks) about AS could be a incentive to the producers give ok for canonization.

There seemed to be a summary for episode 83.

I found this on Japanese twitter:
[img139]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJfBInJUAAALDKw.jpg[/img139]

I'd appreciate it if someone can translate.

Anyone else intrigued by the fact that the screenshot that they were showing was Ash holding Serena? I think this is episode will have some good amour bonding like episode 40.

That pic was discussed some few pages back in this forum.

雪山をこえて！マンムーとユキノオー！！
Yukiyama o koete! Manmuuto Yukinooh!!
(Going beyond the snowy mountain! Mamoswine and Abomasnow!!)

ヒャッコクシティをめざすサトシたちわ, 近道をするため "２ほんキバポケモン"のマンムーをレンタルして雪山を越えようとする.
Hyakkokushiti o mezasu Satoshi-tachi wa, chikamichi o suru tame" 2 hon kibapokemon" no rentaru shite yukiyama o koeyou to suru.

Aiming (to reach) the Anistar City, Satoshi and friends rent the 'two-tusked pokémon' Mamoswine for a shortcut crossing the Snowy Montain.

すると病気のユキカブリとそれを守るユキノオーに遭遇. ユキカブリを助けるため手分けして薬の材料を探すことに.
Suruto byōki no Yukikaburi to sore o mamoru Yukinoō ni sōgū. Yukikaburi o tasukeru tame tewake shite kusuri no zairyō o sagasu koto ni.

Then they encounter with a Absomasnow protecting a sick Snover. They split up to search the ingredients for a medicine to save Snover.

ところが, そのすきをついて彼らの後をつけてきたロケット団にマンムーとユキノオーが捕まってしまう.
Tokoroga, sono suki o tsuite karera no ato o tsukete kita roketto-dan ni manmū to yukinoō ga tsukamatte shimau.

However, Mamoswine and Absomasnow are captured by the Team Rocket, who was following their trail.

脚本=米村正二
Kaykuhon=Yonemura Shōji
Screenplay=Shoji Yonemura

演出.絵コンテ=うえだ しげる
Enshutsu.E konte=Ueada Shigeru
Production.Storyboard=Shigeru Ueda

作画监督=小山知洋
Saguga kantoku=Koyama Tomohiro
Animation director=Tomohiro Koyama

#AmourWins

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

I feel like the screenshot was just bait for us to want to watch it. It's not like they haven't done this before. BUT what I'm more interested now is the fact that Satoshi is yelling. What is he yelling at? Serena? Or someone else? Or about something?

Bait or not, I do think that this episode will have some alone time between Ash and Serena like episode 40 and the date episode (which also shown screenshots of Ash and Serena alone)

It's possible that Ash is trying to tell Serena to hang in there since she looked really cold in this one and he's extremely worried of her condition.

 

[Ross451]

I wouldn't say arguments were "required" in order to for the ship to be canon, but for me it's needed in order to get development from them both. Yes it's out of character but considering they've made Serena's character sassy as well it opens doors for arguments if someone pushes her buttons, yes it's cliche that Ash does have his arguments with his other female companions because they pointed out his childish flaws but that doesn't always have to be the course of every argument they have, lets see what's different.. oh yeah Ash doesn't even have much of a feud with anyone this series so he doesn't have anything that could possibly make him as aggressive like he has been in the past, so maybe if someone from a old series that Ash disliked for example Paul then maybe that's something that could bring Ash's frustration back. But yeah, until Ash's frustration level rise I just see him chilled back having a nice time. As for Serena, she seems to be more of the aggressor this series but not towards her friends so maybe that may change through out the series. Basically what i'm saying is, something needs to start bugging Ash in order to bring out his childish self again in order for him and Serena to have an argument.

 

[Commander Wrex]

It's healthy to have disagreements every now and then. There will be a point on occasion where one decides to do something that the other doesn't like to do; OR when one has a habit to do something that the other finds either disturbing or strange to him/her.

Arguments or disagreements on essence look bad, and I understand how some Amourshippers would prefer to keep the couple happy and content. But I'm more on the side of others in having at least one incident where the two need to work things out should such disagreement come up - for (many) relationships, especially romantic, to last, couples must be able to compromise with each other. Couples will not see eye-to-eye 100% of the time.

On the other hand, I won't beat myself up when the writers don't employ such situation to the series with Ash and Serena. It does make Amourshipping more realistic, however - showing that the two can work through a rough patch will, in my mind, strength the bond between them.

 

[Ellis]

Interesting views on the concept of the two arguing. I'd say bickering can take many forms. Sometimes it can be based around child-like irritation, which I personally feel that despite the sassy side within Serena and Ash's immature moments, both are too grown up for. That kind of bickering was what we saw at times with Ash and Iris, and it didn't really develop very far overall. I believe that Ash and Serena both have a particular sense of respect for each other, which has grown along with the characters' development throughout the XY series. In a way their relationship has swung from tutor-apprentice to equals, and so the mutual respect lowers the chances of the two ever having an emotional conflict. There have been occasions where the two could have gotten into a squabble, but they always remain tolerant with each other. With this level of respect comes a sense of acceptance on each other's attitudes and traits. They have a mutual understanding of who each other are, on multiple occasions like in XY73, Ash shows atypical patience in allowing Serena to lead the group off into activities such as the fashion show. This in a way makes Ash and Serena's relationship stand out from others, as Ash's sometimes childish personality has been played down significantly since other series like Best Wishes. I would say that a relationship of mutual respect is a relationship that can steadily progress and advance onto serious and long-term levels. Once it's progressed to an extent, the two can then become more expressive.

On the other hand of course, deeper emotional arguments can be beneficial, as the two grow closer together from the freedom of expressing their emotions. Is this necessary though? Like I said in a post previously, various cultural implications and Serena's patient personality mean that the two would probably be have to be driven to their wits end to have a genuine tussle of any sort. Maybe through frustration in any situation Ash or Serena could lash out, but at this very point in time it doesn't seem to feel very fitting. I feel that once their relationship has advanced to a serious enough level, having arguments and light-conflicts tend to become more healthy, as they have already built up that respectful bond of trust. Alas, of course the XY series has miles to go, a lot can happen. We've already been taken through some emotional times, and I know that we will eventually see many more. My view is that at this point in time, an argument may undermine their mature, respectful relationship, yet we may have an emotional future of some degree in store!

Saying that, I wouldn't mind a light-hearted lovers' spat occasionally, it depends how Serena chooses to act if/when she confronts Ash about the L word! It's certainly an interesting topic, and good to see a variety of opinions, we'll see how the writers pan out their future interactions!

 

[matthew11]

Arguments or disagreements is one of those circumstances relationships need for development. I have to agree with some who have stated that.

But!

This is on the side of negativeness. It may look bad, as Commander Wrex said. Other things I can think of without conflict on either side is when the two is in a very dangerous situation where one of them, or both of them if possible, would get badly physically injured. I can't think of any succeeding scene after this other than them clenching their fists and praying for safety. The other suggestive and negative requirements is not to be mentioned here.

All in all, bickering is the only nasty condition accepted by many for further developing relationships. Of course, I'm one of those who doesn't wish for a very serious and maybe even violent bickering from the two like when Satoshi and Kasumi or Iris did. Just an average and realistic argument is all I expect.

 

[ShadowForce720]

I feel like the screenshot was just bait for us to want to watch it. It's not like they haven't done this before. BUT what I'm more interested now is the fact that Satoshi is yelling. What is he yelling at? Serena? Or someone else? Or about something?


Maybe that upcoming episode will provide some sort of friction between them but I could be dreaming xD. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that a bickering is needed. In fact, I said it would be good. But if it doesn't happen, i won't be too bothered. Really I just want more interactions between them, whether or not they're negative or positive. ANYTHING that will bring them closer together and be personal with each other. XY040 was a good example. In many cases, I'm gonna use this Proverb: "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (27:17). <---Personal growth and becoming closer in relationships can't happen without friction and sparks. Like you said with Dawn. This is exactly what happened. They fought at times, but eventually became the closest friends.

In Serena's case, this could happen too, if the perfect situation reveals itself. But at the same time, Serena has already experienced at least three points of friction: her failure in the Tripokalon of course, her rivals, and that time when her dress ripped. Satoshi's words of wisdom are what drive her to stand up despite her problems. So even if they're not necessarily clashing with each other, they're still growing through other means.

Basically, friction in a relationship doesn't necessarily have to be from just bickering between the two parties. It can come from somewhere else. That's my take on it. *shrug*

He could be asking if she is ok. Also there is a summary for that episode and it says that Ash and the others split up to search for ingredients so Ash and Serena might be alone together in the episode for a little while although until we a least get a preview or see the episode it will be hard to say if we will get an amourshipping hint here or not . Although I think we might get one in the episode we will just have to wait and see.

oh here is the summary that Dephender had posted in the thread for the episode

Spoiler: I'm not sure if it was a spoiler or not so I just put it with the spoiler tag just in case

"As they're making their way towards Anistar City, Ash and friends rent Mamoswine so they can take a shortcut over some snow mountains. On their way over the mountains, they encounter a sick Snover and an Abomasnow that's trying to protect it. Wanting to help the Snover, Ash and the others split up to search for ingredients to a medicine for it. However, Team Rocket have been following them into the mountains and seize the opportunity to capture the Mamoswine and Abomasnow."

Yeah so it looks like there splitting up I'm guessing that maybe Ash and Serena are in one group and the other is Bonnie and Clemont so I think there is a chance that we could get an amourshipping hint here.

 

[dp045]

xD are talking about a discussion between Ash and Serena could do that are closer between them, it occurred to me something interesting: maybe a movie (maybe the next) the argument that Pikachu disappears / happening is kidnapped and Ash wants rescue at all costs, but to do so you have different real danger both to Pikachu to Ash and company to recover. This could make Ash get his more impulsive and stubborn side, Serena worried that he might get hurt or endanger them could lead to fervently discuss Ash, ending with Ash says something inappropriate and hurt and angry Serena finish giving a slap, so the group was bankrupt and could end up with an interesting outcome, as Ash finished apologizing with Serena and others show that Pikachu really cares about other people important to him. It's like what happened in the movie 8 only in the fight scene with Ash Lucario but Serena put in place Lucario, xD.

 

[pokemaster442]

I leave for a few hours and already this thread is blowing up. I want this series to go smoothly like it has been doing since the begining. The relationship between Ash and Serena is growing every time I watch an episode. Arguing is probably the worse way to make them closer. I wouldn't mind one or two disagreements between the two but not an argument as that would probably make things have a sour edge to amourshipping.

Besize, this series will never be like the other series in the past, we can already see that with what the writers have done with character devlopment and making Ash less dense and adding such a major character in Serena and the whole amourshipping stuff. Also the ratings for this show are the highest they have been since the first series of pokemon aired and I don't think people watched pokemon because of the characters bickering. Also, back in the beginning the show was geared towards a comedic type genre unlike XY series.

Thats my two yen.

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

That pic was discussed some few pages back in this forum.
#AmourWins

I know, I'm just curious with the summary and its relation the the screenshot. Anyway, thanks for the translation. Now I do think that Ash and Serena are most likely to pair up during the splits as they usually do and possibly, Ash is holding Serena in concern for her condition. This episode is really something to look forward to.

 

[Ellis]

Hmm. I've been downplaying XY82, although now that we know the group's objective for the episode, that picture suggests to me that there may be slightly more detailed focus on the scene where Ash and Serena (presumably) split with Bonnie and Clemont. There's a very low chance that we'll have a situation similar to XY40, but with these dangerous conditions and just the two of them, there's bound to be some sort of closer interaction, as the two will have to be on the look out for each other. I think that's reflected in the picture, and I can see Ash being motivating towards Serena if she's had some sort of fall. Unfortunately, I believe Ash's attention will most likely be on helping the ill Snover, and so the narrative may not be able to switch so drastically towards any troubles Serena may come across, unless it's a more serious injury like a sprain, rather than just slipping- having his arms on her shoulders is certainly something I'm looking forward to seeing more of though!

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

Hmm. I've been downplaying XY82, although now that we know the group's objective for the episode, that picture suggests to me that there may be slightly more detailed focus on the scene where Ash and Serena (presumably) split with Bonnie and Clemont. There's a very low chance that we'll have a situation similar to XY40, but with these dangerous conditions and just the two of them, there's bound to be some sort of closer interaction, as the two will have to be on the look out for each other. I think that's reflected in the picture, and I can see Ash being motivating towards Serena if she's had some sort of fall. Unfortunately, I believe Ash's attention will most likely be on helping the ill Snover, and so the narrative may not be able to switch so drastically towards any troubles Serena may come across, unless it's a more serious injury like a sprain, rather than just slipping- having his arms on her shoulders is certainly something I'm looking forward to seeing more of though!

Hmm, I still think that during the split up, Ash may still worry more about Serena's case regardless of how much danger she's into. Ash has been quite protective and careful of Serena. I'm sure that he'll get extremely worried of her case while they are together in the middle of the snow.

 

[Geodude]

The last time one of them had to help the other with an injury, it was during the Summer Camp when Ash sprained his ankle, and that was a nice scene for the two of them. So if there is some sort of danger or injury involved this time, the chances for another nice Amourshipping scene are reasonably high, I would think. At the very least we could see Serena observing how caring Ash is towards Pokemon and appreciating him for it or something.

 

[Ellis]

Hmm, I still think that during the split up, Ash may still worry more about Serena's case regardless of how much danger she's into. Ash has been quite protective and careful of Serena. I'm sure that he'll get extremely worried of her case while they are together in the middle of the snow.

Oh yes, definitely! I suppose I'm taking an overly-linear view of the episode. I definitely think there will be something of note, whether it is strong enough to be considered a hint is highly likely, I'd say. I'm not expecting anything overly shippy, although maybe this could provide extra depth into Ash's protective nature over Serena, now that could be something big from Ash's behalf! Again though, I'm trying not to get overly excited haha!

 

[Trublsmbob]

Dang, the thread explodes for no reason again. Well, I mine as well join the discussion.
So, Ash and Serena having an argument? I really don't think it's necessary. If you never argue with your friend and you get along with them better than anyone else, than that's a good thing. You understand them. You don't need to argue and bicker with them to get that kind of relationship. Ash and Serena travel with each other 24/7. They know each other better than almost anyone else. I know this because I've experienced it. When I was younger and went to summer camp I knew and liked my friends more than anyone else because I spent most of two months with them. We never bickered, but we still had an awesome relationship. Love is the same way. If you spend enough time around someone that you love or like eventually there's no need to bicker. Ash bickered with his other companions because he was less mature. Now in terms of being mature Ash is 13-14.

 

[Ross451]

Dang, the thread explodes for no reason again. Well, I mine as well join the discussion.
So, Ash and Serena having an argument? I really don't think it's necessary. If you never argue with your friend and you get along with them better than anyone else, than that's a good thing. You understand them. You don't need to argue and bicker with them to get that kind of relationship. Ash and Serena travel with each other 24/7. They know each other better than almost anyone else. I know this because I've experienced it. When I was younger and went to summer camp I knew and liked my friends more than anyone else because I spent most of two months with them. We never bickered, but we still had an awesome relationship. Love is the same way. If you spend enough time around someone that you love or like eventually there's no need to bicker. Ash bickered with his other companions because he was less mature. Now in terms of being mature Ash is 13-14.

I do agree with you, but in this case i would like them to argue because it would be good for development for them both, having them argue will just make things seem more interesting for me and not just peaceful and relaxing like most relationships (more than friends wise) are successful because they do have some spark like disagreements and stuff, also it gives Ash and Serena know each other better because if they were to argue Serena will probably point out the childish personality and Ash will actually take note of it this time and begin to grow up a little, also it will help them understand each other better and maybe help progress the ship a little. Yes, bickering is not needed and it doesn't need to turn into something physical just something like a strong disagreement or something along them lines.

 

[ShadowForce720]

I do agree with you, but in this case i would like them to argue because it would be good for development for them both, having them argue will just make things seem more interesting for me and not just peaceful and relaxing like most relationships (more than friends wise) are successful because they do have some spark like disagreements and stuff, also it gives Ash and Serena know each other better because if they were to argue Serena will probably point out the childish personality and Ash will actually take note of it this time and begin to grow up a little, also it will help them understand each other better and maybe help progress the ship a little. Yes, bickering is not needed and it doesn't need to turn into something physical just something like a strong disagreement or something along them lines.

The problem with the whole idea of Ash and Serena getting into an argument is that for the most part it would feel forced. Although if they did get into an argument it would probably be due to a misunderstanding. Althoguh I don't think the shipping really needs them to get into argument.

 

[Lorde]

I feel like the screenshot was just bait for us to want to watch it.

Same. The fact that the summary doesn't really imply at anything big regarding AmourShipping makes me think that it's all a tease, which we've gotten before. Like, I'm sure Ash worrying about whatever is wrong with Serena will be a shipping hint, but I'm not buying the hype completely. I'm waiting for a second date episode to give us the next big round of hints.