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Amourshipping Thread V3

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
Like imagine if Serena showed up in Kanto, or Unova, or Alola, would the ship not have worked at all?
I don't think it wouldn't of mattered either way to Serena because Ash is always the same person on the inside who cares for Pokémon deeply and "never gives up until the end." Remember in XY6 in the beginning when they talked and Serena reminded him that he hadn't changed. That specific attitude is what she admired about Ash most imo. We were also reminded of that when people reacted to Ash's SM design.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
I don't think it wouldn't of mattered either way to Serena because Ash is always the same person on the inside who cares for Pokémon deeply and "never gives up until the end." Remember in XY6 in the beginning when they talked and Serena reminded him that he hadn't changed. That specific attitude is what she admired about Ash most imo. We were also reminded of that when people reacted to Ash's SM design.

This sums up my thoughts so much better than my own post did. Thank you for that, because you're exactly right.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Serena would have a lot more flip outs (like the snowball one) though if she travelled with Ash in Kanto/Unova :p

I disagree. The reason Serena had that moment was because she was worried about Ash and he snapped at her after she tried to talk to him in a very tense moment. I don't think even Ash's beginner traits would make her that way as long as he was the boy who never gave up.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ash has always been a kind-hearted and gallant soul from Episode 1 (and therefore the flashback is simply a reiteration of that), but certain circumstances can make him not be. Serena is not one of those circumstances.

At the same time, Ash was clearly presented as not as dumb, immature or overly boisterous as he was/is in Kanto, Unova, and Alola.

I don't think it wouldn't of mattered either way to Serena because Ash is always the same person on the inside who cares for Pokémon deeply and "never gives up until the end." Remember in XY6 in the beginning when they talked and Serena reminded him that he hadn't changed. That specific attitude is what she admired about Ash most imo. We were also reminded of that when people reacted to Ash's SM design.

Well he "hadn't changed" because they intentionally created a flashback where he behaves nearly the exact same at the camp and in XY. She never really saw the Ash of other series.

---
I mean, sure, you could say Serena would have still felt the same even it was Kanto Ash she met, and not XY, but it just leaves an odd taste that they intentionally wrote Ash so he could be admired by a love interest in Serena.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Serena seeing the bad parts of Ash, such as him just goofing around or getting frustrated with him every now and again would have been preferable to me. I can see why some might like Serena admiring Ash constantly, but Ash and Serena are two different people with different interests and personalities. To me, seeing them have disagreements would have felt more authentic/realistic since they're not exactly alike.

It might be a cultural thing in Japan though why they wrote XY Ash the way he was for Serena to have a crush on. Maybe that's how they envision relationships there, I don't know. But eh, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Serena seeing the bad parts of Ash, such as him just goofing around or getting frustrated with him every now and again would have been preferable to me. I can see why some might like Serena admiring Ash constantly, but Ash and Serena are two different people with different interests and personalities. To me, seeing them have disagreements would have felt more authentic/realistic since they're not exactly alike.

It might be a cultural thing in Japan though why they wrote XY Ash the way he was for Serena to have a crush on. Maybe that's how they envision relationships there, I don't know. But eh, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

You mean moments like slapping his hand when he wants cake, scolding him for not paying attention when he's training, or pulling his head out of things when he's too reckless? There are plenty of aspects of her getting slightly frustrated and scolding him, she just doesn't make it a big spectacle, and he's simply matured enough to not fight back about something so stupid. Personally, I don't mind disagreements but I 1) don't look for realism in the things I watch necessarily and 2) don't like when they happen over stupid stuff. Then it feels silly and stupid.

And Maldread, what would you expect? Serena gets a crush by him acting like a brat? He showcased one aspect of his personality: the kind heroicness. That's the part she latched on to. She wasn't around him or others who would bring out some negative traits in him long enough. And even then, I don't think it would matter. Besides, who's to say that this scene is not entirely from Serena's point of view and thus romanticizing some things. It just seems like a pointless complaint to make in the grand scheme of things...
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
I disagree. The reason Serena had that moment was because she was worried about Ash and he snapped at her after she tried to talk to him in a very tense moment. I don't think even Ash's beginner traits would make her that way as long as he was the boy who never gave up.

She would still admire the good qualities that Ash always had, but in the earlier sagas Ash was not always the kind-hearted, never giving up guy. She flipped when she saw one of Ash's bad qualities, there are still many other sides of Ash which wasn't shown in XY so idk how she would cope with that.
 

sunofdarkchild

Well-Known Member
Those translations make me wonder if Serena's presence was actually the reason in-universe for Ash being so consistently mature in XY and not just the out-of-universe explanation. Perhaps he acts differently when she is around compared to when she's not around.
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
I take a slightly different opinion: at his core, Ash is a very kind and gallant person. Perhaps his seriousness came from the natural progression of maturation, but Ash can have his moments of bravery in any series. Heck, the opening of DP has him climbing a TRio mecha to save Pikachu. The problem that brings out some of his attitude problems is when people essentially push his "inferiority button" as I like to call it. Iris and Misty did it the most while Serena undoubtedly did it the least.

In other words, I think that Serena, being who she was, would have still loved Ash for being "gallant" as it were because she would never push to button to make him feel inferior and thus snappy. Dawn was similar; most of Ash's outbursts were either over stupid things or Paul. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ash has always been a kind-hearted and gallant soul from Episode 1 (and therefore the flashback is simply a reiteration of that), but certain circumstances can make him not be. Serena is not one of those circumstances.

My wording is a bit off so I'll try to explain it better.

You're right about how Ash is the same person to the core but I visualise it as Ash having different emotions which make up himself. Like: caring, brave, gallant, goofy, idiotic etc.

Throughout the series, we have seen many of Ash's personalities come forth but some are more catered depending on the series and the setting. BW had Ash as a bit idiotic more than his other personalities, XY has him as more courageous then idiotic, SM has him as a bit goofier than gallant.

Depending on what the writers think of the Pokemon series, they'll focus on one part of Ash's personality more than the others. That's what it sounds like from their point of view, in XY at least.

From an anime point of view, you can say that Ash's personality differs depending on who he is with at the time. Like you said, his companions will push one of Ash's personality more than the others. Serena didn't, at least she was there to support him and give him a leg up. I don't think she could ever put Ash down even when he acts idiotic. She'll just smile at him and blushes like she usually does.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
She would still admire the good qualities that Ash always had, but in the earlier sagas Ash was not always the kind-hearted, never giving up guy. She flipped when she saw one of Ash's bad qualities, there are still many other sides of Ash which wasn't shown in XY so idk how she would cope with that.

Ash wasn't always that way because people were bringing out his bad side. Misty constantly mocked him, same for Iris. In DP, it was Paul, early AG we had Max. Ash has been known to be that way when people push his buttons and make him feel inferior. And Serena didn't "flip". When Ash was truly at his lowest, she went to him and offered to help. She didn't abandon him or start yelling at him, but when he told her she didn't know anything and told her to essentially "piss off" she decided on a more forceful method, not because she was really angry, but because she hated seeing him so low. Notice that literally a scene later she beats herself up about it and goes after him. I'd hardly call that "flipping" and more having a momentary moment of enhanced frustration with him.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
Ash wasn't always that way because people were bringing out his bad side. Misty constantly mocked him, same for Iris. In DP, it was Paul, early AG we had Max. Ash has been known to be that way when people push his buttons and make him feel inferior.

Misty and Iris mocked Ash because he was an immature little kid, Ash didn't become an immature little kid because Misty and Iris mocked him. If XY Ash travelled with Iris she wouldn't mock him in the first place, same reason she doesn't mock Cilan. Also, Ash showed his bad side in AG without anyone inducing it (Brawly's gym).

And Serena didn't "flip". When Ash was truly at his lowest, she went to him and offered to help. She didn't abandon him or start yelling at him, but when he told her she didn't know anything and told her to essentially "piss off" she decided on a more forceful method, not because she was really angry, but because she hated seeing him so low. Notice that literally a scene later she beats herself up about it and goes after him. I'd hardly call that "flipping" and more having a momentary moment of enhanced frustration with him.
yea, so she flipped
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Misty and Iris mocked Ash because he was an immature little kid, Ash didn't become an immature little kid because Misty and Iris mocked him. If XY Ash travelled with Iris she wouldn't mock him in the first place, same reason she doesn't mock Cilan. Also, Ash showed his bad side in AG without anyone inducing it (Brawly's gym).

yea, so she flipped

I'm not getting into other characters here, but that's irrelevant for the point I'm making. Maybe he was immature, but he only got worse when he was mocked. Do you really think had Iris gotten a cameo in XY that she wouldn't have pulled her catchphrase out on him? That she wouldn't have mocked him?

Obviously there's no discussing this because...well, she didn't flip.
 

Satoshi no masara

Professional couch potato
I'm not getting into much argument of whether Serena will accept Ash if she dealt with his past personalities, all I can say is, she will accept him for who he is and no matter what, her perception of him will not change. Ash have a lot of immaturity in him, even in XY, they were displayed for many times and Serena will gladly accept that because it's part of the Ash she admired so much and fell in love with.

And I don't think it's worth discussing anymore, Ash will not go back to his old self. Even SM Ash is still almost the same as XY Ash with a slapstick comedy but yeah, he's still the same.

And I don't see anything wrong with Serena being influenced by Ash's personality. She was inspired by his determination and never give up attitude which she applies to herself. And it's not like she's completely dependent of Ash. She also had inspirations with Shauna and Aria which both became her rivals. And there are times where she's independent and confident of her own skills as she grows as a character.

She would still admire the good qualities that Ash always had, but in the earlier sagas Ash was not always the kind-hearted, never giving up guy. She flipped when she saw one of Ash's bad qualities, there are still many other sides of Ash which wasn't shown in XY so idk how she would cope with that.

You should watch the episode carefully and the one that followed, Serena didn't 'flip out because of Ash's sudden outburst, she got frustrated because Ash wasn't acting like his normal self. She doesn't like seeing Ash in a state of losing confidence to himself. That's why she "welcomed" Ash back, she welcomed the real Ash by the end of the episode and she also whispered to herself "Welcome back, you who I admire the most" after Ash won against Wulfric.
 

BlazeKnight7

Active Member
I honestly feel like people exaggerate SM Ash's personality. He's really not all that different to XY Ash, Still good at battling, still a caring person who is willing to help out his friends and encourage them. The only real change I've seen is that he's more hyperactive and often gets himself hurt for comedy purposes but the second part is just the fact the writers are playing up slapstick more than other series rather than Ash doing anything overly stupid.

Amour would still work fine with Alola Ash. Thus far the only "dumb" thing I feel he's done is when he jumped to try and grab the Milotic Lillie reeled in which was still done with noble intentions even if I have no idea what he was planning to acomplish, Other than that he hasn't done anything dumb, or acted stupid like people claim. Serena would probably just giggle at Ash acting all hyper and he'd be the same caring guy he was to her in XY
 

Neatolzy

Well-Known Member
You mean moments like slapping his hand when he wants cake, scolding him for not paying attention when he's training, or pulling his head out of things when he's too reckless? There are plenty of aspects of her getting slightly frustrated and scolding him, she just doesn't make it a big spectacle, and he's simply matured enough to not fight back about something so stupid. Personally, I don't mind disagreements but I 1) don't look for realism in the things I watch necessarily and 2) don't like when they happen over stupid stuff. Then it feels silly and stupid.

And Maldread, what would you expect? Serena gets a crush by him acting like a brat? He showcased one aspect of his personality: the kind heroicness. That's the part she latched on to. She wasn't around him or others who would bring out some negative traits in him long enough. And even then, I don't think it would matter. Besides, who's to say that this scene is not entirely from Serena's point of view and thus romanticizing some things. It just seems like a pointless complaint to make in the grand scheme of things...

You forgot the time when she grabbed his wrist/hand when he wanted to battle the Frou-Frou trainer before the league, scolded him for doing it when they didn't have time then dragging him to register. I laughed a lot at that scene because it screamed "those two are like a couple".
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
I honestly feel like people exaggerate SM Ash's personality. He's really not all that different to XY Ash, Still good at battling, still a caring person who is willing to help out his friends and encourage them. The only real change I've seen is that he's more hyperactive and often gets himself hurt for comedy purposes but the second part is just the fact the writers are playing up slapstick more than other series rather than Ash doing anything overly stupid.

Amour would still work fine with Alola Ash. Thus far the only "dumb" thing I feel he's done is when he jumped to try and grab the Milotic Lillie reeled in which was still done with noble intentions even if I have no idea what he was planning to acomplish, Other than that he hasn't done anything dumb, or acted stupid like people claim. Serena would probably just giggle at Ash acting all hyper and he'd be the same caring guy he was to her in XY

I don't think you're watching the episodes for SM thoroughly enough. There's more of these moments than that scene.
From the top of my head there's:
- Ash jumping in to help Lillie reel in the Milotic only to get hit by it (the one you mentioned).
- Ash carelessly touching the tail of an Alolan Exceggutor only to be hit by it.
- Jumping into a field of Tauros and getting run over by them.
- Putting too much detergent into the washing machine causing it to overflow.
- Putting too much ingredients when he was cooking.
- Running into the shopping mall doors 3 times.

That being said, there are some good moments to it like the Z-move scene, the Litten episode, the Rowlett episode and the Lillie episode (points for AmourShipping reference too).

Regardless of the case, Serena will always like Ash no matter who he is. It doesn't even look like that she'll hate him either except when he's not himself. If she was in SM, she'll probably joke around with him too or facepalm at his idiotic moments... with love.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
It would be one thing to say that Ash being more even-tempered in XY was just a coincidence in the grand scheme of the XY plot. It's another thing entirely to say that Ash was intentionally rewritten in such a way so that it reflects off Serena better.

The directors basically just admitted that they couldn't write Amourshipping in with the Ash that was there in Kanto-Sinnoh, or the Ash in Unova. They had to actively write a different characterization for the boy, and add in (or in this context, fabricate) a flashback for the sole purpose of pushing the ship forward with no regard for characterization or context.

-
At that point, the simple fact is that the ship mattered more to the writers than the characters in the ship themselves. That's....de-legitimizing, from my perspective.


This is why continuity is such a big deal for people. Seeing how a character progresses emotionally can go a long way toward making a ship seem genuinely created, rather than shoe-horned.
 
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BlazeKnight7

Active Member
I don't think you're watching the episodes for SM thoroughly enough. There's more of these moments than that scene.
From the top of my head there's:
- Ash carelessly touching the tail of an Alolan Exceggutor only to be hit by it.
- Jumping into a field of Tauros and getting run over by them.
- Putting too much detergent into the washing machine causing it to overflow.
- Putting too much ingredients when he was cooking.

I'll give you the exceggutor particually, but it's honestly not something overly stupid. Careless sure but not dumb, He was just curious about Exeggutor.

I don't think ash was even aware it was a Tauros field, he saw a new pokemon on the other side of the path and just went towards them without realizing there were Tauros heading towards him until it was too late.

The other two aren't him being stupid, just him not knowing how to cook or do laundry which is completely understandable since these are things he's never done before, he's always had Brock/Cilan/Clemont to cook for him and probably had his clothes washed by his Mum or at the pokemon centre.

Shopping mall one I don't even remember but I'll give you that.

All the others are definately not him being overly stupid, mostly just careless or him doing things he's never done before and messing up because of it.

But yes Serena will always love Ash, for all his good qualities and bad.
 

Satoshi no masara

Professional couch potato
I don't really see anything wrong with Serena meeting SM Ash. As many times as it's mentioned, Serena will accept Ash for who he is no matter what because what's important to her is his positive and never giving up attitude. The rest are just part of who he is. And if Serena does come back, I'm sure that the writers will put some slapstick comedy on her as well. Ash isn't the only victim of this, even Lana, Lillie and eventually, the rest as well will fall on the slapstick comedy. Serena would also be part of it and I can imagine that her kind of comedy would be about her feelings for Ash as she tries to hide it from the rest even though it gets out pretty obvious and we'd probably seeing more of "Volcano girl", lolz and hey! That's quite a fitting theme since it's Alola! :D
 
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