Amourshipping Thread V3

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

@Blood Red Ancienverse is a fan fiction by @Epicocity that actually has Ash age, him and Serena marry and they even have a kid

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

The flashbacks literally do that.

Again, just because they omit AG's form in the flashbacks doesn't necessarily imply it never existed and moreso to me implies they didn't want to show the design for whatever reason, be it they are saving an appearance of his later or they just can't show the design. They just wouldn't have described AG the way they did if they wanted to imply a different form never existed. If you want to believe that they omitted it because they retconned it, go ahead but I'm optimistic the show will prove you wrong

 

[Power Up]

Again, just because they omit AG's form in the flashbacks doesn't necessarily imply it never existed and moreso to me implies they didn't want to show the design for whatever reason, be it they are saving an appearance of his later or they just can't show the design. They just wouldn't have described AG the way they did if they wanted to imply a different form never existed. If you want to believe that they omitted it because they retconned it, go ahead but I'm optimistic the show will prove you wrong

You do realize " them not wanting the show the design for whatever reason " is the " actively alter what happened once " part of your original statement? I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Dancing around the topic with made-up implications about the writers' intent doesn't change what actually transpired in the show. I already explained why they potentially described Greninja the way the did and how it was utterly toothless and the fact that the callbacks didn't even actually really " callback " to AG.

What's worse is if that AG doesn't show up in the show I doubt you'd be willing to admit it was a retcon even then as well.

 

[Blood Red]

It's really a retcon for me atleast if the writers actively want to alter what happened once or provide information to it that contradicts what was meant to happen

...I agree with @Power Up, that sounds exactly like what they did with AG. They provided info that contradicts a prior event, i.e. drawing Greninja as regular Greninja in flashback scenes where he should've been AG. So according to your own definition, they have 'retconned' AG.

Now of course, I don't actually believe they have the power to remove AG from existence. It is a Pokémon which has not only been marketed and sold as merchandise, but has also been coded into the games, which leads me to believe it was a form created not by OLM, but by GameFreak; the only people who have the right to actually create any Pokémon or form that canonically exists in the games. If they actually tried to retcon it, they would need permission from the creators of the franchise, and it's most certainly not something a single man can decide, even if that man is Satoshi Tajiri himself. A random series director most certainly doesn't have that authority to make decisions like this, no matter what anyone tells you.

That said...I'll most certainly use it as a convenient excuse to tell myself this is an AU where the events of XY play out differently, and AG never existed to begin with, for my own reasons!

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

You do realize " them not wanting the show the design for whatever reason " is the " actively alter what happened once " part of your original statement? I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Dancing around the topic with made-up implications about the writers' intent doesn't change what actually transpired in the show. I already explained why they potentially described Greninja the way the did and how it was utterly toothless and the fact that the callbacks didn't even actually really " callback " to AG.

What's worse is if that AG doesn't show up in the show I doubt you'd be willing to admit it was a retcon even then as well.

...I agree with @Power Up, that sounds exactly like what they did with AG. They provided info that contradicts a prior event, i.e. drawing Greninja as regular Greninja in flashback scenes where he should've been AG. So according to your own definition, they have 'retconned' AG.

Alright here's basically my throught process "Them not wanting to show a particular thing from the past due to xyz reason doesn't mean they are saying it never happened or doesn't exist anymore"
Admittedly, my entire basis is something I'm assuming based on me feeling they wouldn't retcon something like this out of respect and me still expecting AG to pop up again
But I'll concede, if Greninja is never mentioned again in JN or the form is never brought up, it's fair to claim JN retconned it (even though I still believe that's not the intent)
The Alain episode will make or break it, I assume

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

JN is playing with fire if they retcon Amourshipping and Ash-Greninja because they have a lot of vocal fans and the backlash would be worse than the Kalos League

 

[Panky..]

Why tf are y'all derailing a Ash x Serena thread with a debate about A-G retcons? That should be in AniPoke speculation...

 

[Blood Red]

Why tf are y'all derailing a Ash x Serena thread with a debate about A-G retcons? That should be in AniPoke speculation...

Partly my fault. AARTX mentioned it, I referenced it sort-of as a joke, and it spiraled out of control.

Anyway, Amourshipping. I like it. I hope it goes somewhere.

 

[Mega Ampharos the Dragon]

Mate, if **** goes further south regardless of who returns, I'm making Ancienverse canon in my head, lol.

I've pretty much already canonized the Ancienvers...

To the point where I would actually use it to bombard Constantinople with

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I've pretty much already canonized the Ancienvers...

To the point where I would actually use it to bombard Constantinople with

Constantinople?

Spoiler: Spoilers for Ancienverse

I honestly just wanted to see Ash and Serena’s baby and Ash leaving a pregnant Serena for a while upset me. And then the scene where the baby is born felt lackluster to me honestly.

 

[Satoshi no masara]

Imagine that, I'd love to pretend that JN is entirely disconnected from OS -> XY. Even better if SM is also in this 'new' JN continuity.

Plot-twist, XY is actually the disconnected universe and is actually part of the Yajima movie-verse (Yajimaverse confirmed! )

But hey, if at least amour become canon in one of Yajima's future potential movies, I'm still all for it.

They removed Greninja from the OP and replaced him with Mega Lucario. They are trying to make Lucario replace Greninja and I’m disgusted. WTF.

I mean, Lucario is Ash's ace of this season. We're now past the golden age of Ash-Greninja and he did play a significant role in mentoring Lucario. I think that should be enough.

TBF, all they’ve done is that MLucario vs GMAXZard battle is confirmed, and the opening changes to include new details for foreshadowing.

So I wouldn’t rule out greninja, the alola team (and some reserves) returning (yet).

And no, I’m all out of copium kekw

True, OPs can be deceiving sometimes. They may spoil some fights but there are times where OPs also covers some actual fights in the anime. If anything, this OP kinda spoils the Ash vs Leon fight. That leaves a possibility of Ash using Greninja against Alain (IF they actually fight which I'm hoping for to say the least. Ash-Greninja needs that sweet revenge and closure)

Ok, now I'm starting to wonder if there's certain people in the current production team that actually doesn't like XY and prefer DP and SM. I can't even imagine the shitshow if Ash stays for SV and the series somehow manages to be worse than the previous two series, maybe even surpassing BW. God these writers can come across as spiteful hacks at times.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there is certain bias towards the SM cast, particularly Lillie since the acting director is the same director for SM but I wouldn't say that there is a certain dislike towards XY. XY is heavily represented in this season. We got Korrina, her Lucario, Clemont and Bonnie, Drasnna, Serena's surprise cameo, Greninja and now Alain and Diantha being part of the Masters 8 (which makes Kalos having two representatives). XY fans have been treated well with all these cameos.

Why tf are y'all derailing a Ash x Serena thread with a debate about A-G retcons? That should be in AniPoke speculation...

lmao, happens a lot of time in this thread in the past. Heck, it happened in the first two Amour thread that if I remember correctly what made the MODs to step in and had to close them down. But yeah, I think such discussion should be done in the speculation thread.

JN is playing with fire if they retcon Amourshipping and Ash-Greninja because they have a lot of vocal fans and the backlash would be worse than the Kalos League

Part of me still hopes that they will address these two at some point before JN ends (They're probably reserving them to build hype or something). Of course, this is mere speculation but I feel AG will still appear if Ash ever battle Alain and Serena still has a chance to return on one of Ash's fight against the Masters 7.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Off topic promotion time: Did a thread for Love After Domination! Hope it doesn't die nearly empty lol

I don't mind if it's just the movie AU Ash, that would still be awesome and I do love AU Ash anyway. M21 is one of my most favorite Pokémon movie so far next to M08 and M09

M20 is my favorite movie, to be honest. But movies 8 and 9 were quite decent. And 21/22 had great messages

Y’know seeing the preview for the lillie-mohn reunion/return makes the hidden Serena return even more puzzling, coupled with the obvious Ash-Greninja omissions, you gotta wonder if the writers really have something big planned for them or if JN is some sort of a pseudo alternate timeline where Amour or Ash-Gren never existed.

For what I've seen, the Lillie return didn't seem to have been that promoted. It's less secretive than Serena's but it's still lowkey.

They removed Greninja from the OP and replaced him with Mega Lucario. They are trying to make Lucario replace Greninja and I’m disgusted. WTF.

Me too. This update is actually a downgrade.

The stuff about preferring DP and disliking XY is nonsense, but there's definitely a bias towards SM. The current series director, Tomiyasu, also directed SM and it wouldn't be surprising if he wasn't at least slightly biased towards his own work. Plus, it's strange to me that while Omode was not given a Serena episode despite her really liking the character, they gave the Lillie episode to the head writer of SM, who also happens to be a fan of Lillie.

Again, just speculation and most likely untrue, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

I think that since Serena is a VERY popular character with a unique connection with Ash, they wanted to do the thing sensibly and responsably so they had the current show's main writer, who also wrote Serena back in the day, to do it. Only Gary had this privilege.

I think it says more about how much of a big deal Serena is.

Why are people pretending that " it just wasn't shown? " They straight up changed scenes from XY that had Ash-Greninja to normal Greninja. You can't even use the already flimsy Serena ribbon excuse here.

Really? I haven't noticed.

But to be honest, I think it might just be an oversight for some reason (maybe their schedule being too rushed)

Now of course, I don't actually believe they have the power to remove AG from existence. It is a Pokémon which has not only been marketed and sold as merchandise, but has also been coded into the games, which leads me to believe it was a form created not by OLM, but by GameFreak; the only people who have the right to actually create any Pokémon or form that canonically exists in the games. If they actually tried to retcon it, they would need permission from the creators of the franchise, and it's most certainly not something a single man can decide, even if that man is Satoshi Tajiri himself. A random series director most certainly doesn't have that authority to make decisions like this, no matter what anyone tells you.

Ash-Greninja IS a Game Freak creation. Yajima said it himself in the Anime Style interview.

He wanted to focus on the Ash/Greninja connection but since Ash would be going against megas when the only Gen 6 pokémon with a mega was Diancie (a mythical) he went to Game Freak for assistance. GF then come up with Ash-Greninja and the synchro concept.

 

[Blood Red]

Plot-twist, XY is actually the disconnected universe and is actually part of the Yajima movie-verse (Yajimaverse confirmed! )

But hey, if at least amour become canon in one of Yajima's future potential movies, I'm still all for it.

That'd...actually be amazing! Who cares about being in the main anime, at least the movies aren't scared of doing fun, wacky stuff with the premise they've been given, rather than this stuck-in-the-past anime.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there is certain bias towards the SM cast, particularly Lillie since the acting director is the same director for SM but I wouldn't say that there is a certain dislike towards XY. XY is heavily represented in this season. We got Korrina, her Lucario, Clemont and Bonnie, Drasnna, Serena's surprise cameo, Greninja and now Alain and Diantha being part of the Masters 8 (which makes Kalos having two representatives). XY fans have been treated well with all these cameos.

Don't forget that the lemon siblings and the Drasna battle were given the all-important 25th anniversary. People seem to ignore how significant this really is, since this continuity will most likely not get a 50th anniversary.

I think that since Serena is a VERY popular character with a unique connection with Ash, they wanted to do the thing sensibly and responsably so they had the current show's main writer, who also wrote Serena back in the day, to do it. Only Gary had this privilege.

I think it says more about how much of a big deal Serena is.

Yeah, but then you get the people mocking this scene for how similar it was to the Kenny lighthouse scene, which was also written by the same writer. Of course, this is only really a 'gotcha' from people who became confident in Pearlshipping after seeing it get 'sunk', not realizing that all this does is reinforce that Kenny might actually be Dawn's endgame.

Ash-Greninja IS a Game Freak creation. Yajima said it himself in the Anime Style interview.

He wanted to focus on the Ash/Greninja connection but since Ash would be going against megas when the only Gen 6 pokémon with a mega was Diancie (a mythical) he went to Game Freak for assistance. GF then come up with Ash-Greninja and the synchro concept.

And there you have it. Just as I suspected, a GameFreak creation that was so well-liked they made it a part of the games, and graced it with not only the name of the main character it was based after, but also the creator of the whole franchise.

 

[AARTX]

For what I've seen, the Lillie return didn't seem to have been that promoted. It's less secretive than Serena's but it's still lowkey.

Well, Lillie is in the episode title, I guess that’s enough of a promotion for her return. Clemont is also in the title of the episode he and bonnie returned in, Greninja did as well and I’m sure Paul will get the same.

All serena got was the eevee flower pin tease in the OP and a short "reunion" as the episode title says.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Well, Lillie is in the episode title, I guess that’s enough of a promotion for her return. Clemont is also in the title of the episode he and bonnie returned in, Greninja did as well and I’m sure Paul will get the same.

All serena got was the eevee flower pin tease in the OP and a short "reunion" as the episode title says.

Lillie is in the OP too iirc

 

[Speed22]

The heck is Ancienverse?

@Epicocity's Pokemon masterpiece, the best Amour fanfic series and one of the best fanfic series I've read.

Constantinople?

Spoiler: Spoilers for Ancienverse

I honestly just wanted to see Ash and Serena’s baby and Ash leaving a pregnant Serena for a while upset me. And then the scene where the baby is born felt lackluster to me honestly.

Spoiler: Ancienverse

Eh, I'm ok with it. It wasn't really the point of the latest trilogy.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

@Epicocity's Pokemon masterpiece, the best Amour fanfic series and one of the best fanfic series I've read.

Spoiler: Ancienverse

Eh, I'm ok with it. It wasn't really the point of the latest trilogy.

Ik, but it still bothered me

 

[AARTX]

Man, I can’t even begin to imagine the outrage if the writers pulled the AG stunt on Amour (they can still do that if Serena re appears)

*shudders

Them replacing the kiss with Ash and Serena just waving goodbye in the escalators. Hoo boy, I’d rather have Ash outright reject Serena than this

 

[Speed22]

Man, I can’t even begin to imagine the outrage if the writers pulled the AG stunt on Amour (they can still do that if Serena re appears)

*shudders

Imagine replacing the kiss with Ash and Serena just waving goodbye in the escalators

Yeah, I think they might be aware of what happens when you annoy Amourshippers.

 

[Heekful]

Man, I can’t even begin to imagine the outrage if the writers pulled the AG stunt on Amour (they can still do that if Serena re appears)

*shudders

Them replacing the kiss with Ash and Serena just waving goodbye in the escalators. Hoo boy, I’d rather have Ash outright reject Serena than this

*Flashbacks of the dance episode when Akemi Omode had to apologize about Ash and Serena not dancing on Twitter*
*Flashbacks of Bonnie's Japanese VA making a statement in english last month because she talked about Serena in one of her tweet*

To be honest seeing how JN105 played and how short the interaction between Ash and Serena was, we still can't know for sure if Amour is retconned or not but like I said if that was their plan, they did a terrible job at it.