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Amourshipping Thread V3

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Goh had spent the entire arc of Journeys meeting all of the friends Ash had made during his travels before he met this introverted boy. He witnessed how Ash has touched these other characters, but just as quickly as they met him, they left to continue on their own respective Journeys; in Lillie's case, he witnessed her conclude her story. The only friends Goh is not really privy to their connection with Ash either through meeting them in person or through hearsay are Max, understandably, and Misty, less so.

All these meetups are serving as setup for the choice Goh had to make to leave Ash right at his pivotal moment so Goh can make progress on his own path; just like all his other friends, he now has to pursue his own dream on his own. The lesson wouldn't have quite hit as hard if Goh had not met these other guys beforehand. And it DEFINITELY would have flopped if every single person except Goh came to watch the finals. Personally, I think even Dawn showing up was a mistake and in disservice to that throughline, and the only one who should have been there at the finals is Chloe, since she is a main character in this arc and had recently come to an answer to her path. Journeys is as much Goh's story as it is Ash's too, so that's where that focus needs to be, not shoehorning in plot resolutions of other non-main characters last minute.

Going back to that priviness, Serena is in a unique spot where Goh is barely aware of her connection with Ash even though he met her, so take that as you will. It's neat that there's practically a sliding scale in that priviness amongst all the friends, from the amount of times he's met them with Ash and for how long.

Sophocles -> Lana/Kiawe/Mallow -> Dawn -> Iris -> Lillie -> Brock/Clemont/Bonnie -> Serena -> May/Tracey/Cilan -> Max/Misty

Excluding May, the two girls that have had concrete shipping tidbits with Ash in the series are the two Goh knows the least of about their bond with Ash. Maybe there's a point there, maybe not.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Ash himself lays it plain on three separate occassions that the WCS is not the end of his journey, and that he is mainly participating because Leon promised to have an all-out battle with him should they meet in the tournament. The prestige of being World Champion doesn't matter to him, an attitude he reaffirms in his final episode.

Misty and Brock at the very least know that this isn't the end for Ash, but it's safe to assume that all his friends know this, and that this is simply another stepping stone toward his ultimate goal. So there's no need to put up airs about this one tournament and have a real need to be there, which is why I dislike Dawn being there. But Goh needed to realize that too, and that they'll still be friends despite missing out on each other's finest moment at that time. That's what it was all about, and as soon as Goh made that decision to leave, the result of Ash vs. Leon was locked in.
 

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
Serena's goal has a double meaning:

1) Be just like Ash and inspire others
2) Eventually be with Ash when they are older, possibly married

The first one is already being done. She is inspiring others alongside May. She just got time to watch Ash on live TV, rooting for him. Also note that Serena wants to come back as far lovelier, improved version of herself when she reunites with Ash once again. Such a reunion would require a lot more than just a cameo reunion on the stadium (which is mainly focused on Ash and Pikachu).

Also, it's quite evident that everyone knows where Ash is considering that Dawn got herself a seat alongside Chloe. They all knew where it takes place. They could just go there if they have time to do so. Ash needs not to invite save for a party of his victory.

Look, I understand wanting to justify Serena's absence and depict Ash and Serena's next reunion to be more profound, but this is just not it man.

At least prior leagues were regional conferences, so it was more acceptable if Ash's friends watched them on TV.

However, this is Ash's most important battle/tournament. He's literally competing to be the World Champion. Of course all of the friends, but particularly either of the two girls (Serena and Misty) who are closest to being Ash's so-called love interest, should be present.

If the writers bothered to make Ash and Serena's reunion in JN105 last longer than 30 seconds, then Ash would have already seen how far Serena has improved in terms of her personal/career growth.

Besides, why does Serena have to constantly prove herself in order to win Ash? It's not like Serena was a 2/10 in terms of looks and personality in XY while Ash was an 8/10. They both are around the same age. Ash might have more experiences than her, but he's not perfect either.

The notion that serena right now isn't 'adequate enough' for him is pure misogyny and I'm not even a feminist lmao. What does improvement even entail? What exactly is she supposed to improve upon that is going to make Ash fall for her? Do simple acts like being there for someone at their vulnerable moments not count? Suppose Ash got into a fatal accident. Is she still not supposed to show up because muh promise? Or are we implying that being the world champion isn't important enough for her to be there? Are we seriously teaching kids that dreams are the be all end all and that nothing, not even relationships are more important than wealth, status, fame and power?

^ This.

XY should have done more pushing the shipping from Ash's side. There were a number of subtle/implied hints suggesting attraction from his side, but nothing overt.

Because at the end of the day, Serena doesn't have to be a perfect queen in order to earn Ash's affection (that's the wrong message to teach as well). She's a girl with her own personality, her own strengths and flaws, and a goal that she's clearly working on. And that should suffice.

If there's good writing, then any attraction towards Serena from Ash's side should have just happened naturally. And simple acts such as being present for Ash's most important tournament would have solidified those feelings.


Ash himself lays it plain on three separate occassions that the WCS is not the end of his journey, and that he is mainly participating because Leon promised to have an all-out battle with him should they meet in the tournament. The prestige of being World Champion doesn't matter to him, an attitude he reaffirms in his final episode.

Misty and Brock at the very least know that this isn't the end for Ash, but it's safe to assume that all his friends know this, and that this is simply another stepping stone toward his ultimate goal. So there's no need to put up airs about this one tournament and have a real need to be there, which is why I dislike Dawn being there. But Goh needed to realize that too, and that they'll still be friends despite missing out on each other's finest moment at that time. That's what it was all about, and as soon as Goh made that decision to leave, the result of Ash vs. Leon was locked in.

Ash has always been goal-oriented. He went to every region and dutifully collected Gym Badges and participated in the regional leagues in the hopes of becoming the best. Perhaps the underlying motivation for Ash was to simply travel the Pokémon world and make new friends, but his forefront goal was always becoming a better Pokémon Trainer.

MPM made it seem that Ash is on this whimsical timeless voyage, but honesty, the anime overall never made it seem that way. Ash's growth was quite obvious from OS-DP, and even after the BW 'reset', XY and SM furthered his achievements. All of that culminated in Journeys, where Ash finally became the World Champion.

For Ash's friends not to be present in PWC just reeks of bad writing, and/or the show being incapable of recruiting the VAs well in advance for such an important event.
 

Morax

King of heroes
For Ash's friends not to be present in PWC just reeks of bad writing, and/or the show being incapable of recruiting the VAs well in advance for such an important event.
I don't know about you but I grew up watching cartoons that focused on the power of friendship, how it could move mountains and how it was the most important thing to be cherished but not anymore I guess. Now it's all about chasing after your lust for materialistic desires, even if it means leaving your friends behind because they don't need you! Focus on what you want for yourself!

I'm surprised how nobody has noticed how narcissistic we have become as a society.
 
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Observer

Mostly watching
I don't know about you but I grew up watching cartoons that focused on the power of friendship, how it could move mountains and how it was the most important thing to be cherished but not anymore I guess. Now going after fulfilling your lust for materialistic desires, even if it means leaving your friends behind because they don't need you! Focus on what you want for yourself!

I'm surprised how nobody has noticed how narcissistic we have become as a society.

 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Ash has always been goal-oriented. He went to every region and dutifully collected Gym Badges and participated in the regional leagues in the hopes of becoming the best. Perhaps the underlying motivation for Ash was to simply travel the Pokémon world and make new friends, but his forefront goal was always becoming a better Pokémon Trainer.

MPM made it seem that Ash is on this whimsical timeless voyage, but honesty, the anime overall never made it seem that way. Ash's growth was quite obvious from OS-DP, and even after the BW 'reset', XY and SM furthered his achievements. All of that culminated in Journeys, where Ash finally became the World Champion.

For Ash's friends not to be present in PWC just reeks of bad writing, and/or the show being incapable of recruiting the VAs well in advance for such an important event.

I can't say I agree that that direction for Ash was something newly derived from MPM. From Episode 5 all the way up to XY Ash had always had the Leagues of the region to keep him motivated, and it's had the benefit ot 800+ episodes of being that main drive to have it become ingrained as the de facto goal, but SM is the first time Ash makes the decision to stay in the region purely to learn more about Pokemon. It helps to further his goal of being a better Trainer and a Master all the same, and the idea of a League for Alola doesn't even get hinted at in the anime until Kukui gets inspired by Ash's and Misty's battle to start organizing one it was her fault all along!. And again, his main goal in Journeys is not necessarily to become World Champion, but to have a battle with and beat Leon; getting the accolade for doing so is incidental. And before that happens he's signed on as Cerise's assistant so he can travel the world for Pokemon related tasks anyway, and it's a job he readily sticks to alongside his WCS ladder climb. Ash is not above taking harmless roles to further his Master goal, battling need not be necessary. And again, he mentions three times through Journeys that beating Leon and being monarch is not his end game.

For that last bit, I still stand by what I said about Goh's resolution needing equal weight with Ash's as he's a main character too. Maybe if the friends were all more proactive in the arc and had more cameos up to the finals, it would be easier to justify them being there (and it may be a reason why Dawn got the pass even if I dislike her being the token one here, though there's equal possibility she was just there so Chloe had someone to exposit with). But their time in the arc and what they did on a message level is equivalent to their presence in the finals: they reunite, they say goodbyes to continue their paths, they're rooting for Ash in spirit in his final match just like they always have been. Goh just needed to join that group and be at ease with that, something he ultimately gets around to after their battle with Lugia.
 
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Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Look, I understand wanting to justify Serena's absence and depict Ash and Serena's next reunion to be more profound, but this is just not it man.

At least prior leagues were regional conferences, so it was more acceptable if Ash's friends watched them on TV.

However, this is Ash's most important battle/tournament. He's literally competing to be the World Champion. Of course all of the friends, but particularly either of the two girls (Serena and Misty) who are closest to being Ash's so-called love interest, should be present.

If the writers bothered to make Ash and Serena's reunion in JN105 last longer than 30 seconds, then Ash would have already seen how far Serena has improved in terms of her personal/career growth.

Besides, why does Serena have to constantly prove herself in order to win Ash? It's not like Serena was a 2/10 in terms of looks and personality in XY while Ash was an 8/10. They both are around the same age. Ash might have more experiences than her, but he's not perfect either.

Except you don't see Misty or May watching the Sinnoh League on TV. You don't see Dawn watching the Unova League on TV. Or Iris for the Kalos League on TV. Or heck, the everyone except the SM cast watch Ash win the Alola League, his first victory.

What made the World Tournament so special was that the show took time to show all of Ash's companions watching him on TV. That's how you know it's the most important battle for Ash in the show. Yes, it would be better to have them in person, but what about Goh? You think Goh, as the last of Ash's companions, would be there too to complete the deck. But the show deliberately split him off. It was going for a different direction regarding friends by your side in spirit.

The show already established Serena to be actively busy in her career. It was only by chance that she happens to encounter Ash in Journeys and thus could barely show off how much she improves. This is not the same in the World Tournament because unlike last time, Serena knows exactly where Ash is. She could go there to see Ash's battle in person, yes, but where would be the room for a proper reunion? Ash and Dawn barely interacted in the World Tournament. And Dawn could get away with it because she's just great friends with Ash. No need for extra specialness.

For Serena to be at the World Tournament requires a lot of more screentime than what was likely allowed to let Amourshipping hints to breathe naturally. You need Ash and Serena properly reintroducing each other, talk about their goals, how much they've improved etc. But that would take up a lot of time in a crammed episode. Oh, and you'll need a departure scene between them too to make just as impactful. That's not a lot of room for good Amourshipping moments.

I find Amourshipping reunion fanfics to be far more memorable (and less cheesy) if it's just focus on Ash and Serena getting a chance to be a couple and not just one of them being a cheerleader for some big tournament match.
 

Morax

King of heroes
For Serena to be at the World Tournament requires a lot of more screentime than what was likely allowed to let Amourshipping hints to breathe naturally. You need Ash and Serena properly reintroducing each other, talk about their goals, how much they've improved etc. But that would take up a lot of time in a crammed episode. Oh, and you'll need a departure scene between them too to make just as impactful. That's not a lot of room for good Amourshipping moments
The reason people wanted serena to be at the tournament is to be his emotional support which is quite a common trope : MC goes through emotional turmoil ----> loses all hope ----> Love interest gives him a reason to keep moving forward ----> he falls for her.

Of course that's assuming he gets the jitters before his big day like any normal person would. But we know Ash isn't normal which makes the romance all the more difficult to implement. Ash doesn't have the disposition to develop a crush on anybody. The only way to do it would be to break his character.
 

Observer

Mostly watching
The reason people wanted serena to be at the tournament is to be his emotional support which is quite a common trope : MC goes through emotional turmoil ----> loses all hope ----> Love interest gives him a reason to keep moving forward ----> he falls for her.

Of course that's assuming he gets the jitters before his big day like any normal person would. But we know Ash isn't normal which makes the romance all the more difficult to implement. Ash doesn't have the disposition to develop a crush on anybody. The only way to do it would be to break his character.

Well for that to happen they will have to be as blunt as possible with Ash, I mean just outright say and no uncertain terms nothing ambiguous nothing for interpretation that strips say I am in love with you and I want you to be my boyfriend. Something like that you know but also let him know that they are going to support and do everything they have in all of their heart.

But I wonder if AU Ash from the movies has a better understanding with romance than the main anime Ash.
 

Morax

King of heroes
But I wonder if AU Ash from the movies has a better understanding with romance than the main anime Ash
AU Ash seems to have a greater disposition for developing a crush because, for one, he has a flawed personality. He has a lot more room for personal growth and it is that potential that makes him more likely to fall for someone than our Ash. The statistics on this are very clear : the more impressionable you are, the more likely you are to fall in love.
 

Observer

Mostly watching
AU Ash seems to have a greater disposition for developing a crush because, for one, he has a flawed personality. He has a lot more room for personal growth and it is that potential that makes him more likely to fall for someone than our Ash. The statistics on this are very clear : the more impressionable you are, the more likely you are to fall in love.

He did pick up things quicker than the main Ash from the anime, and if given the chance maybe he wouldn't be so dense in the romance area the thing is he just never got that opportunity.

Like if Verity had stuck around past the first movie would he have probably developed feelings for her? maybe.

Risa from the second movie would he have gotten a crush on her maybe, probably, I don't know because she was just in one movie.

Would he have recognized the feelings of the Serena from his universe?

All we can do just speculate on that for the time being.
 

Morax

King of heroes
He did pick up things quicker than the main Ash from the anime, and if given the chance maybe he wouldn't be so dense in the romance area the thing is he just never got that opportunity.

Like if Verity had stuck around past the first movie would he have probably developed feelings for her? maybe.

Risa from the second movie would he have gotten a crush on her maybe, probably, I don't know because she was just in one movie.

Would he have recognized the feelings of the Serena from his universe?

All we can do just speculate on that for the time being.
I still wish the writers pulled an Oda and said 'there will never be any romance in this anime' so the shipping wars would finally die off....
 

Observer

Mostly watching
Ideally it should but yeah, Earth gonna spin, rain gonna fall and shippers gonna ship.

You also have to think about the inmates running the asylum trope, for example DC comics with Nightwing Batgirl and Starfire.

You have people who grew up shipping dick and Babs together, now they have jobs in DC comics and they can actually make it happen. Which they are currently doing right now in the recent Nightwing comics.

This also applies to people who ship dick and Kori together from the Teen Titans series, they can make that ship happen as well.

For an anime example go watch The disappearance of Yuki nagato, you can tell it's being made by people who shipped her and Kyon together.
 

Morax

King of heroes
For an anime example go watch The disappearance of Yuki nagato, you can tell it's being made by people who shipped her and Kyon together
Watched it twice and read the manga as well. Yuki x Kyon is infinitely better than Haruhi who is just insufferable. :p
 

Observer

Mostly watching
Watched it twice and read the manga as well. Yuki x Kyon is infinitely better than Haruhi who is just insufferable. :p

That is a conversation for another day, though to be honest I can't really argue with you on that one. Him and Mikuru on the other hand that's a different story. :cool:

But yeah imagine if someone who was a fan of Amourshipping was put in charge of the anime, it can either turn out to be a good story or badly written fanfiction.
 
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