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Amourshipping Thread V3

Morax

King of heroes
But yeah imagine if someone who was a fan of Amourshipping was put in charge of the anime, it can either turn out to be a good story or badly written fanfiction.
Don't we already have someone like that onboard?
images
 

Observer

Mostly watching
Tetsuo yajima

.................. In my defense I never actually saw a real life photo of him so it makes the shame of not knowing who he is at least a tiny bit bearable.

But he's an example of doing a good story involving romance in this anime, you know given what he had to work with.
 

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
From Episode 5 all the way up to XY Ash had always had the Leagues of the region to keep him motivated, and it's had the benefit ot 800+ episodes of being that main drive to have it become ingrained as the de facto goal, but SM is the first time Ash makes the decision to stay in the region purely to learn more about Pokemon. It helps to further his goal of being a better Trainer and a Master all the same, and the idea of a League for Alola doesn't even get hinted at in the anime until Kukui gets inspired by Ash's and Misty's battle to start organizing one it was her fault all along!.

Even SM had the island challenges, Kahunas, and Z-Moves, all of which interested Ash and still gave him a pseudo-'badge quest.'

And again, his main goal in Journeys is not necessarily to become World Champion, but to have a battle with and beat Leon; getting the accolade for doing so is incidental. And before that happens he's signed on as Cerise's assistant so he can travel the world for Pokemon related tasks anyway, and it's a job he readily sticks to alongside his WCS ladder climb. Ash is not above taking harmless roles to further his Master goal, battling need not be necessary.

Well, isn't it because Leon is the Monarch as to why Ash wanted to challenge him?

As you said, for majority of the show, from episode 5 till XY, Ash competed in formal badge quests and had that as his primary motivation. Yet even in SM, he ended up completing the trials and participated in the league and won it. In Journeys, he wanted to beat Leon in a formal battle, which required him to compete in the PWC. At the end of day, Ash's goals have predominately been battling-based and becoming the best.

To me, Ash felt like he was a growing character particularly from OS-DP, and even in the later seasons after the BW 'reset.' He didn't feel like he was locked in time as a 10-year-old on an endless journey. My overall point is even if becoming the Monarch was not the be-all-end-all for Ash, this was still his most important tournament/battle, and the anime even framed it as such (cameos of everyone watching; all of Ash's Pokemon cheering on Pikachu). That's why his friends, or at least the likes of Serena (for the purposes of this thread), should have been present.

And again, he mentions three times through Journeys that beating Leon and being monarch is not his end game.

I didn't watch all the JN episodes. When were the other times?

For that last bit, I still stand by what I said about Goh's resolution needing equal weight with Ash's as he's a main character too. Maybe if the friends were all more proactive in the arc and had more cameos up to the finals, it would be easier to justify them being there (and it may be a reason why Dawn got the pass even if I dislike her being the token one here, though there's equal possibility she was just there so Chloe had someone to exposit with). But their time in the arc and what they did on a message level is equivalent to their presence in the finals: they reunite, they say goodbyes to continue their paths, they're rooting for Ash in spirit in his final match just like they always have been. Goh just needed to join that group and be at ease with that, something he ultimately gets around to after their battle with Lugia.

Here's the thing though - they are still his friends. This isn't some epic saga where they must part ways to complete their own respective quests. This is their friend's most important tournament/battle. Especially in the Pokémon world, it's not a big deal to find a ride and be on their way to the Masters 8 tournament.

Except you don't see Misty or May watching the Sinnoh League on TV. You don't see Dawn watching the Unova League on TV. Or Iris for the Kalos League on TV. Or heck, the everyone except the SM cast watch Ash win the Alola League, his first victory.

Misty watched Ash during the Hoenn League. I think you can safely assume that the companions probably tuned in for the other leagues too.

However, this is somewhat lazy writing as well. Their easily could have been brief cameos of the former companions watching Ash on TV during the other leagues.

What made the World Tournament so special was that the show took time to show all of Ash's companions watching him on TV. That's how you know it's the most important battle for Ash in the show. Yes, it would be better to have them in person, but what about Goh? You think Goh, as the last of Ash's companions, would be there too to complete the deck. But the show deliberately split him off. It was going for a different direction regarding friends by your side in spirit.

Watching Ash on TV is not something special. Misty saw Ash on TV during the Hoenn League.

I didn't expect all of the companions to have been present (even though they should have been). However, you would think Serena of all people, the purported love interest, the one who calmed Ash during several of his XY battles, would definitely be there in-person for him.

What better way to advance the shipping than by having Serena be there in-person for Ash's most important tournament/battle? Especially when the writers had Dawn there instead...

The show already established Serena to be actively busy in her career. It was only by chance that she happens to encounter Ash in Journeys and thus could barely show off how much she improves. This is not the same in the World Tournament because unlike last time, Serena knows exactly where Ash is. She could go there to see Ash's battle in person, yes, but where would be the room for a proper reunion? Ash and Dawn barely interacted in the World Tournament. And Dawn could get away with it because she's just great friends with Ash. No need for extra specialness.

Anything is possible with good writing. Simply allocate the time per episode better so such scenes can be written.

Perhaps if JN105 didn't have Ash and Serena only interact for 30 seconds, maybe he would have told her more about the PWC. Then Serena could have gotten the idea to surprise him by showing up at the Masters 8 Tournament.


For Serena to be at the World Tournament requires a lot of more screentime than what was likely allowed to let Amourshipping hints to breathe naturally. You need Ash and Serena properly reintroducing each other, talk about their goals, how much they've improved etc. But that would take up a lot of time in a crammed episode. Oh, and you'll need a departure scene between them too to make just as impactful. That's not a lot of room for good Amourshipping moments.

I find Amourshipping reunion fanfics to be far more memorable (and less cheesy) if it's just focus on Ash and Serena getting a chance to be a couple and not just one of them being a cheerleader for some big tournament match.

All of that can be accomplished in less than 5 minutes. I've written a couple of examples many pages ago in this thread of a how a proper post-XY conversation could have transpired between the two and still pushed the ship forward. Besides, Ash and Serena talked about their goals enough already in XY. At some point, they just need to spend more time together, and Serena being at the Masters 8 tournament would have been perfect.
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Misty watched Ash during the Hoenn League. I think you can safely assume that the companions probably tuned in for the other leagues too.

However, this is somewhat lazy writing as well. Their easily could have been brief cameos of the former companions watching Ash on TV during the other leagues.


Watching Ash on TV is not something special. Misty saw Ash on TV during the Hoenn League.

I didn't expect all of the companions to have been present (even though they should have been). However, you would think Serena of all people, the purported love interest, the one who calmed Ash during several of his XY battles, would definitely be there in-person for him.

What better way to advance the shipping than by having Serena be there in-person for Ash's most important tournament/battle? Especially when the writers had Dawn there instead...

And you haven't noticed how after Hoenn, it was completely dropped? Keep in that the only reason why they have shown Misty watching Ash in Hoenn is because the anime wasn't firmly established Ash with a rotating cast of friends. It was still known as the Ash, Misty Brock show with the AG era being the series where Misty was replaced by May.

Since 2005, we hadn't gotten any cameo of past friends watching Ash on TV. Almost 20 years (17 years to be precise). This makes the TV cameos in the World Tournament a lot more impactful, mainly because it was signaling (though we didn't know it at the time) the end of the Ash era.

Also note that Dawn didn't really do much beyond being Goh's replacement on the seat, complete with Piplup as a Grookey substitute. I still don't recall Dawn having any meaningful interactions with Ash in the four parter beyond helping Pikachu recover in the Pokémon Center. Something tells me that getting Serena in the World Tournament would not turn out the way you wish it to be.

Anything is possible with good writing. Simply allocate the time per episode better so such scenes can be written.

Perhaps if JN105 didn't have Ash and Serena only interact for 30 seconds, maybe he would have told her more about the PWC. Then Serena could have gotten the idea to surprise him by showing up at the Masters 8 Tournament.

Good writing is not a magic wand. And again, you are missing the others when trying to bring Serena to the Master 8 tournament. Serena, the girl who became famous for Sylveon and performing contests alongside May and Lisa in Hoenn. Surely if Serena could come, why not May and Max? And then it becomes a game of getting everyone in there. Surely Brock can take the time off from being Doctor. Surely Misty can leave the Gym to her sisters. Iris could stay. Clemont and Bonnie could come with Clembot maintaining the Gym. Why not Cilian taking a detour to Galar? Or what about Kukui organizing a school trip to the World Tournament? Or what about Professor Oak, Delia and Tracey go to the tournament personally rather than just staying out home? Etc, etc.

And then comes the final question: Why is Goh forced to leave and not watch Ash triumph? Why couldn't the writing just let him watch this big event before he goes to find Mew?

You see, Goh leaving Ash for Mew signifies how the other past protagonists will mostly see Ash's triumph. Not in person, but on TV while they do their careers. Only a few would bear witness Ash's triumph in person, and they happened to be the ones who are currently not pursuing their goals just yet (Dawn is mainly a wandering traveller in JN and has yet to be shown participating in an official big tournament or public performance).

All of that can be accomplished in less than 5 minutes. I've written a couple of examples many pages ago in this thread of a how a proper post-XY conversation could have transpired between the two and still pushed the ship forward. Besides, Ash and Serena talked about their goals enough already in XY. At some point, they just need to spend more time together, and Serena being at the Masters 8 tournament would have been perfect.

No, it would be at a victory party, after Ash is crowned World Champion. The Master 8 tournament was more about Ash's relationship with his two big idols and Champions, Cynthia and Leon. The World Tournament isn't the last stretch to become a Pokémon Master, just another step in an infinite number of steps. And honestly, it would be more interesting to see Serena discussing with Ash on what he'll do next after becoming World Champion than a generic "I believe in you" support that would be going on the Master 8 tournament.

After all, advancing Amourshipping requires new ground, not reusing old ones. I mean, no one remembers Serena rooting for Ash in the Kalos League... but they do remember Serena making new grounds with Ash in the very last episode of XY.
 

Blood Red

【推しの子】
Goh had spent the entire arc of Journeys meeting all of the friends Ash had made during his travels before he met this introverted boy. He witnessed how Ash has touched these other characters, but just as quickly as they met him, they left to continue on their own respective Journeys; in Lillie's case, he witnessed her conclude her story. The only friends Goh is not really privy to their connection with Ash either through meeting them in person or through hearsay are Max, understandably, and Misty, less so.

All these meetups are serving as setup for the choice Goh had to make to leave Ash right at his pivotal moment so Goh can make progress on his own path; just like all his other friends, he now has to pursue his own dream on his own. The lesson wouldn't have quite hit as hard if Goh had not met these other guys beforehand. And it DEFINITELY would have flopped if every single person except Goh came to watch the finals. Personally, I think even Dawn showing up was a mistake and in disservice to that throughline, and the only one who should have been there at the finals is Chloe, since she is a main character in this arc and had recently come to an answer to her path. Journeys is as much Goh's story as it is Ash's too, so that's where that focus needs to be, not shoehorning in plot resolutions of other non-main characters last minute.

Going back to that priviness, Serena is in a unique spot where Goh is barely aware of her connection with Ash even though he met her, so take that as you will. It's neat that there's practically a sliding scale in that priviness amongst all the friends, from the amount of times he's met them with Ash and for how long.

Sophocles -> Lana/Kiawe/Mallow -> Dawn -> Iris -> Lillie -> Brock/Clemont/Bonnie -> Serena -> May/Tracey/Cilan -> Max/Misty

Excluding May, the two girls that have had concrete shipping tidbits with Ash in the series are the two Goh knows the least of about their bond with Ash. Maybe there's a point there, maybe not.
Ruining the conclusion of Ash’s story to maybe, possibly, kinda-sorta complete some other character’s story is just mind-numbingly stupid, sorry to say.
 
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Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
And you haven't noticed how after Hoenn, it was completely dropped? Keep in that the only reason why they have shown Misty watching Ash in Hoenn is because the anime wasn't firmly established Ash with a rotating cast of friends. It was still known as the Ash, Misty Brock show with the AG era being the series where Misty was replaced by May.

Honestly, I don’t think it was some intentional decision. The writers/animation team probably just forgot to do them and/or were too lazy.


Since 2005, we hadn't gotten any cameo of past friends watching Ash on TV. Almost 20 years (17 years to be precise). This makes the TV cameos in the World Tournament a lot more impactful, mainly because it was signaling (though we didn't know it at the time) the end of the Ash era.

Isn’t the whole point for Serena to be more unique? Being like everyone else (besides Dawn) isn’t exactly a win for Amourshipping.

Also note that Dawn didn't really do much beyond being Goh's replacement on the seat, complete with Piplup as a Grookey substitute. I still don't recall Dawn having any meaningful interactions with Ash in the four parter beyond helping Pikachu recover in the Pokémon Center. Something tells me that getting Serena in the World Tournament would not turn out the way you wish it to be.

That’s on the writers doing a crappy job. However, Dawn herself being physically present was a great idea.


Good writing is not a magic wand. And again, you are missing the others when trying to bring Serena to the Master 8 tournament. Serena, the girl who became famous for Sylveon and performing contests alongside May and Lisa in Hoenn. Surely if Serena could come, why not May and Max? And then it becomes a game of getting everyone in there. Surely Brock can take the time off from being Doctor. Surely Misty can leave the Gym to her sisters. Iris could stay. Clemont and Bonnie could come with Clembot maintaining the Gym. Why not Cilian taking a detour to Galar? Or what about Kukui organizing a school trip to the World Tournament? Or what about Professor Oak, Delia and Tracey go to the tournament personally rather than just staying out home? Etc, etc.

Good writing is a magic wand. With better writing in Journeys, we’d have gotten the reserves competing in the PWC, Ash and Serena having a longer interaction re: post-elevator, former companions returning in a better capacity, etc.

I mean, yes, they should have all been present. There could have been a couple of fun ‘whole group’ episodes. However, given the shipping, Serena in particular should have been present in person.

This was the fatal flaw of Journeys. Blown missed opportunity after missed opportunity, and the writers failing to execute on the obvious.

And then comes the final question: Why is Goh forced to leave and not watch Ash triumph? Why couldn't the writing just let him watch this big event before he goes to find Mew?

You see, Goh leaving Ash for Mew signifies how the other past protagonists will mostly see Ash's triumph. Not in person, but on TV while they do their careers. Only a few would bear witness Ash's triumph in person, and they happened to be the ones who are currently not pursuing their goals just yet (Dawn is mainly a wandering traveller in JN and has yet to be shown participating in an official big tournament or public performance).

The writers purposefully decided to do that for whatever reason. I get that COVID disrupted the anime, but they chose to map out the remaining of the series in that fashion.


No, it would be at a victory party, after Ash is crowned World Champion. The Master 8 tournament was more about Ash's relationship with his two big idols and Champions, Cynthia and Leon. The World Tournament isn't the last stretch to become a Pokémon Master, just another step in an infinite number of steps. And honestly, it would be more interesting to see Serena discussing with Ash on what he'll do next after becoming World Champion than a generic "I believe in you" support that would be going on the Master 8 tournament.

Why not both? Serena isn’t on some secret mission.

After all, advancing Amourshipping requires new ground, not reusing old ones. I mean, no one remembers Serena rooting for Ash in the Kalos League... but they do remember Serena making new grounds with Ash in the very last episode of XY.

And the grand follow-up was a 30 second interaction between Ash and Serena after 5.5 years of episodes, to the point where people question whether the ship is still a thing and another ship ended up having the final hints of the Ashnime.
 

Morax

King of heroes
Isn’t the whole point for Serena to be more unique?
You're assuming that this anime operates on traditional logic and priorities which it does not. The priority is obviously advertisement, not plot coherence. I wouldn't be surprised if they completely retconned the kiss at this point because it's bad for 'business'.
 

ComedianGuy8

Well-Known Member
Good writing is a magic wand. With better writing in Journeys, we’d have gotten the reserves competing in the PWC, Ash and Serena having a longer interaction re: post-elevator, former companions returning in a better capacity, etc.

I mean, yes, they should have all been present. There could have been a couple of fun ‘whole group’ episodes. However, given the shipping, Serena in particular should have been present in person.
If better writing means giving many viewers what they wanted all the time no matter how little sense it makes, then many episodes are bad writing by that logic.

Even with shipping, even if I wanted to see Serena watch Ash battle Leon in-person, she has her own dream to work on but at least she watched his battle on TV.

When the Pokemon anime first came out and Misty and Brock are his first companions, many viewers (at least the American majority) hoped for Ash and Misty to become a couple. There's also this English book that includes speculating romance between Ash and Misty and part of it says "just because they part ways doesn't mean there no hope for the two". However, when Serena entered the picture, shared her Sacred First Kiss with Ash, and the staff making a statement about Ash and Serena being together, that hope is technically lost and the info in it can be regarded as moot.

Some fans want Brock to finally get a girlfriend because he desperately wants one. When Brock proposed to Olivia and she seemingly reciprocates, I bet some of the viewers thought that Brock has finally catched a break but we were wrong when he went head over heels for Cynthia in Pokemon: Arceus Chronicles. If Brock were to finally be in a romantic relationship, that would mark the end of Brock's running gag unless he's a cheat boy.
 
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ComedianGuy8

Well-Known Member
You're assuming that this anime operates on traditional logic and priorities which it does not. The priority is obviously advertisement, not plot coherence. I wouldn't be surprised if they completely retconned the kiss at this point because it's bad for 'business'.
If they're actually going to retcon the kiss, then they would've continued Ash's story instead of giving him his personal conclusion. Plus they would've retconned his WPC win as well but retconning either of them or both can lead to huge business consequences.
 
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Morax

King of heroes
instead of giving him his personal conclusion
He got a conclusion? Lmao. Ash losing leagues was never 'bad for business' but keeping him around for so many years definitely was. The kiss is a pretty big problem because they would have to either keep them apart or NOT address it every time they meet. That is bad for business.

If better writing means giving many viewers what they wanted all the time no matter how little sense it makes, then many episodes are bad writing by that logic
What makes little sense is a love interest not being there for the man she loves. What kind of message are we giving children now? "It's ok to leave your friends behind in order to fulfill your dream!"
 
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Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
He got a conclusion? Lmao. Ash losing leagues was never 'bad for business' but keeping him around for so many years definitely was. The kiss is a pretty big problem because they would have to either keep them apart or NOT address it every time they meet. That is bad for business.

And do you know what they did? They gave Ash an ending. An open ending, but an ending nonetheless. Ash now has no obligations to be reset again. He is now traveling with a rotating crew and is always on the move. And still the undisputed World Champion. Ash could have been milked for more Pokémon adventures... but the status of World Champion pretty much killed all stakes and challenges for the audience because it's no longer believable for Ash to seriously lose anymore. Likewise, the Serena kiss pretty much killed the idea of romance with any future girls. Note how Chloe is more connected to Goh than Ash.

There's no longer anything to retcon about Amourshipping because the story of Ash is over. The kiss and Serena's brief union with Ash all establish what future awaits for Ash when he grows up.

What makes little sense is a love interest not being there for the man she loves. What kind of message are we giving children now? "It's ok to leave your friends behind in order to fulfill your dream!"

Children should understand that just because people are miles away from each other doesn't they can't connect or reaffirm their love for each other. The world is more connected than ever before. You can now pursue your dreams AND still keep in touch with your friends.

I mean what message would be it say that a woman must sacrifice their dream to support their would-be husband to achieve his dream? If Serena can do her dreams and still support Ash at the same time, why wouldn't she?
 

Morax

King of heroes
They gave Ash an ending
You would seriously call that an ending? Time and time again I'm surprised by the standards of this fandom being satisfied by the absolute bare minimum. This anime has always been profit oriented. I can't believe I have to spell it out for you

Iconic MC : Profit? Yes ---> milk him
Losing a league : Profit? Yes ---> keep milking the cow
Losing 6 leagues in a row : Profit? No ---> stop milking the cow
MC getting stale : Profit? No ---> kill the cow

Literally all of their decisions have been a consequence of business strategies. They don't care if it's incongruent with what came before. Why do you think they never defined the term 'pokemon master'? They don't have a plan, they never did. You might be wondering what Serena has to do with any of this ; her fate (and everybody's ) is directly linked to how profitable she (they) can be. So yes, they can retcon anything and anyone as long as it generates more revenue. They do not care about telling a coherent story.

I mean what message would be it say that a woman must sacrifice their dream to support their would-be husband to achieve his dream? If Serena can do her dreams and still support Ash at the same time, why wouldn't she?
Let's paraphrase that :
> I mean what message would be it say that a person must sacrifice their happiness to support their significant other's?

I don't know about you but where I come from, that is considered an extremely noble, virtuous and desirable trait in a love interest. Even in the context of friendship it matters a lot. What friend would you be more fond of : one who takes time off their busy schedule to meet and support you in your most vulnerable moments, Or one who simply gives you a phone call?

This notion that both of these are somehow morally equivalent is the most hilarious thing I've read today.

What we need to be teaching kids is that life is always going to make you choose one. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, and one of these choices is both objectively and morally superior to the other. Self-gratification and happiness is not the ultimate goal of life, it only leads to an endless cycle of pursuit and disappointment. Teach them to be ethical and moral instead of this self-serving attitude.
 
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KyleK

Fatebreaker
Teach them to be ethical and moral instead of this self-serving attitude.
That's never going to work as, at their core, humans are evil and egotistical beings
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
You would seriously call that an ending? Time and time again I'm surprised by the standards of this fandom being satisfied by the absolute bare minimum. This anime has always been profit oriented. I can't believe I have to spell it out for you

Iconic MC : Profit? Yes ---> milk him
Losing a league : Profit? Yes ---> keep milking the cow
Losing 6 leagues in a row : Profit? No ---> stop milking the cow
MC getting stale : Profit? No ---> kill the cow

Literally all of their decisions have been a consequence of business strategies. They don't care if it's incongruent with what came before. Why do you think they never defined the term 'pokemon master'? They don't have a plan, they never did. You might be wondering what Serena has to do with any of this ; her fate (and everybody's ) is directly linked to how profitable she (they) can be. So yes, they can retcon anything and anyone as long as it generates more revenue. They do not care about telling a coherent story.

Profit? Ash is still popular. He still is the face of Pokémon alongside Pikachu. He's incredibly malleable as a character to the point he's even gotten a new, rebooted version of himself in the movies. He's beloved enough to be publicly celebrated on the streets of Japan for becoming World Champion.

Yet they decided to take a risk with Liko and Roy as the new protagonists. And really, there can only be one reason for it. The writers could not write Ash into the role of Liko or Roy. They have ran out of new stuff for him to do. Which is why Ash's adventure didn't abruptly end or began shamlessly recycling plot lines.

Tying it back to Serena, it's evident that the show runners deemed Serena to be the end of all future Ash x Girl ships. They couldn't top this or replace her.

Let's paraphrase that :
> I mean what message would be it say that a person must sacrifice their happiness to support their significant other's?

I don't know about you but where I come from, that is considered an extremely noble, virtuous and desirable trait in a love interest. Even in the context of friendship it matters a lot. What friend would you be more fond of : one who takes time off their busy schedule to meet and support you in your most vulnerable moments, Or one who simply gives you a phone call?

This notion that both of these are somehow morally equivalent is the most hilarious thing I've read today.

What we need to be teaching kids is that life is always going to make you choose one. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, and one of these choices is both objectively and morally superior to the other. Self-gratification and happiness is not the ultimate goal of life, it only leads to an endless cycle of pursuit and disappointment. Teach them to be ethical and moral instead of this self-serving attitude.

Most vulnerable? Ash is not in danger. He's in a friendly but competitive match against Leon to see who is the best. He has already accepted any outcomes... it's just that he wanted to see if he can surpass his idol.

If Ash has gotten missing for a few months, then I can see Serena sacrificing their happiness to support their significant other because there's a legit chance that Ash may be in trouble and actually needs help.
 

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
If better writing means giving many viewers what they wanted all the time no matter how little sense it makes, then many episodes are bad writing by that logic.

Usually what many viewers want are logical, consistent writing.

What we got instead made little sense. Goh being written to leave right before Ash's final battle was not good writing and planning.


Even with shipping, even if I wanted to see Serena watch Ash battle Leon in-person, she has her own dream to work on but at least she watched his battle on TV.

It's not that deep.

And do you know what they did? They gave Ash an ending. An open ending, but an ending nonetheless. Ash now has no obligations to be reset again. He is now traveling with a rotating crew and is always on the move. And still the undisputed World Champion. Ash could have been milked for more Pokémon adventures... but the status of World Champion pretty much killed all stakes and challenges for the audience because it's no longer believable for Ash to seriously lose anymore. Likewise, the Serena kiss pretty much killed the idea of romance with any future girls. Note how Chloe is more connected to Goh than Ash. There's no longer anything to retcon about Amourshipping because the story of Ash is over. The kiss and Serena's brief union with Ash all establish what future awaits for Ash when he grows up.

I mean, if you feel satisfied with how things turned out with respect to MPM and Amourshipping, then don't let me convince you otherwise.

Personally, I don't see how a 30 second interaction between Ash and Serena years of episodes after XY is a great follow-up. She wasn't present at the Masters 8 Tournament. She wasn't in MPM. She didn't even get the final shipping hints in the anime.

Yes, JN105 can be interpreted as weakly pushing the ship forward, but nobody wanted Ash and Serena's long-awaited reunion to be a measly 30 seconds, with what happened on the elevator not addressed whatsoever.

Children should understand that just because people are miles away from each other doesn't they can't connect or reaffirm their love for each other. The world is more connected than ever before. You can now pursue your dreams AND still keep in touch with your friends.

Yes, exactly.

Serena being present at the Masters 8 Tournament would not have affected her dreams whatsoever.

I mean what message would be it say that a woman must sacrifice their dream to support their would-be husband to achieve his dream? If Serena can do her dreams and still support Ash at the same time, why wouldn't she?

Lol what? How is supporting your friend/crush = "sacrifice [her] dream"?

Why do family and friends come out in person to support their loved one in a competition? Why do fans of any team or athlete come out in person to cheer them on? There's a major morale boost and psychologic advantage with having people you care about in the stands supporting you during the ups and downs of a match.
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Yes, exactly.

Serena being present at the Masters 8 Tournament would not have affected her dreams whatsoever.

She is present through the technology of television. And the Rotomphones. That's why the technology has improved the connection of the world.

Lol what? How is supporting your friend/crush = "sacrifice [her] dream"?

Why do family and friends come out in person to support their loved one in a competition? Why do fans of any team or athlete come out in person to cheer them on? There's a major morale boost and psychologic advantage with having people you care about in the stands supporting you during the ups and downs of a match.

When they can afford the time. Ash is literally in Galar region. We don't see Delia or Oak making the trip to Galar even though they have supported Ash the longest. We don't see Brock, Misty, and the others make trip aside from Dawn. And we were shown the worst case scenario with Goh. He literally cannot watch the Master 8 Tournament finale.

The story is ultimately about Ash and Goh, with Goh learning to make a new best friend and pursue his dreams. Goh's conflict is literally to choose between supporting Ash or pursuing his dream. That dilemma loses impact if everyone but Goh could make it. Serena is among those who is confirmed to have a busy career.

I understand the intent of the narrative, and I will not betray that for any rewrite. As I've said before, the only rewrite need was a celebration party where all of Ash's friends gather. That one has the best excuse to take a break from your career. Ash is now World Champion and wouldn't it make sense for friends of Ash to gather and celebrate with newfound celebrity? Heck, their bosses would see a good financial opportunity for sponsorship and endsorsement. Especially with Serena.
 
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