Amourshipping Thread V3

[lane]

Considering that the language of the Pokemon world appears to be universal save for a few gratuitous phrases throughout the series, I highly doubt they would have any challenges at all. I mean, it's not like Ash ran into Serena and was all, "Do you speak Kantonese?" before he helped her. He just asked her and she understood. Just my opinion there.

Awkward moment when I read "Kantonese" as "Cantonese", which is the native language that I spoke prior to learning English.

See, I gotta disagree when it comes to where the story is going. The episode is building up this big decision Serena has to make: staying with Ash and going to Alola, or following her own dream. The teasers have been hinting that she's going to choose her own dream, and if that's what happens... Then having her return in Alola as a main character would render that choice totally meaningless. I really feel that Serena's main character arc is about figuring out her own dream and becoming more independent. Rather than just supporting someone else, she finds something she wants to do for herself.

Sure, in real life, people are disappointed by how things turn out, change their minds... and that happens in stories sometimes, too. But! When it happens in a story, it's a subversion of that trope. You have to look at the kind of story being told, whether it skews toward realism, optimism, pessimism, whatever. And Pokemon is the kind of show where characters follow their dreams and are satisfied by that. You're right that it's not great writing to leave things unresolved for Serena, either... Maybe they won't, maybe she'll at least get to confess. But even if she doesn't, I still feel like it would be a step backward for her character development to choose Ash over her own dream. And that would be worse than leaving things unresolved, as far as story-telling goes. You don't want to contradict what you've been building up to, unless your point is that personal development isn't a linear progression, we don't always stick with our convictions, and/or we tend to take the path of least resistance. And like I said, Pokemon has never been that kind of story.

I mean, they might still decide to change something later; we know the writers' aren't exactly committed to artistic vision. But yeah, as it stands now, I mean.

1. I agree with this, though I would like to make the argument that if Serena's dream is to become Kalos Queen on her own terms, and those terms include travelling to new regions in order to study different dance forms and help people along the way (and get to stay close to Ash as a side effect), then I'd say that it's not going to be a bad choice.

2. Oh, definitely. I just got disappointed with my first midterm grade, because I fully expected to get an A, but ended up with a B+. Not complaining though, because that course is hard as f***. But I still think that having Serena follow along with Ash might be a blessing in disguise because there's a lot of dance-related material in Alola that she could pick up and use in her Kalos-based performances. Just my $0.02 (and probably the same $0.02 that Omegaz is gonna give).

3. The writers are always surprising us, be it good or bad.

 

[Omegaz]

But do remember to be realistic with yourself, because having others influence you (wink wink Omegaz and KungFuMaster ) might leave you to be disappointed sometimes. I'm not saying be pessimistic, but be realistic. I, for one, am not expecting anything other than a full conclusion to Amour that will lead to a semi or full canonisation of Amour.

I mean sure, but at least for me I'm going to give it everything. If it doesn't end up the way I want it then I just leave the show and let my head canon fill in for me. That is satisfactory. However, we probably would need to have that scenario.

See, I gotta disagree when it comes to where the story is going. The episode is building up this big decision Serena has to make: staying with Ash and going to Alola, or following her own dream. The teasers have been hinting that she's going to choose her own dream, and if that's what happens... Then having her return in Alola as a main character would render that choice totally meaningless. I really feel that Serena's main character arc is about figuring out her own dream and becoming more independent. Rather than just supporting someone else, she finds something she wants to do for herself.

Sure, in real life, people are disappointed by how things turn out, change their minds... and that happens in stories sometimes, too. But! When it happens in a story, it's a subversion of that trope. You have to look at the kind of story being told, whether it skews toward realism, optimism, pessimism, whatever. And Pokemon is the kind of show where characters follow their dreams and are satisfied by that. You're right that it's not great writing to leave things unresolved for Serena, either... Maybe they won't, maybe she'll at least get to confess. But even if she doesn't, I still feel like it would be a step backward for her character development to choose Ash over her own dream. And that would be worse than leaving things unresolved, as far as story-telling goes. You don't want to contradict what you've been building up to, unless your point is that personal development isn't a linear progression, we don't always stick with our convictions, and/or we tend to take the path of least resistance. And like I said, Pokemon has never been that kind of story.

I mean, they might still decide to change something later; we know the writers' aren't exactly committed to artistic vision. But yeah, as it stands now, I mean.

I think that one thing you forget is that Serena's dream is more than just performing or being Kalos Queen. We see, as of recently, that her dream is really about bringing smiles to people everywhere. In order to do that, she's gotta go places. What better way than to travel with Ash who all he does is give back to others. Her dream can be continued no matter where she goes.

Furthermore, Serena wasn't always a performer. I look back to those 40 episodes which dealt with her finding herself. She achieved this through the help of Ash and by taking a leap of faith leaving her mom and Ryhorn racing to join a boy whom she hadn't seen in years. You can't undervalue how much Ash means to her not just as in her crush, but in how he's had an impact on a lot of she decisions. Her path really runs parallel to that of Ash. There really isn't much of a reason for her to branch off. And if she does, is that really the right choice? Most likely not.

 

[Manqoba]

Considering that the language of the Pokemon world appears to be universal save for a few gratuitous phrases throughout the series, I highly doubt they would have any challenges at all. I mean, it's not like Ash ran into Serena and was all, "Do you speak Kantonese?" before he helped her. He just asked her and she understood. Just my opinion there.

I realize that the language is universal. What I meant was more along the lines of "Let's say it's like the real world and they don't know each other's language. How would it have been different?"

 

[Red Pheonix]

Any contribution you can make would be much appreciated. If people are looking for a certified translation, they're going to have to wait for the dubs.

All of this language and translation talk is making me wonder.

In the real world, Japan and France have two completely different languages. As kids, Ash and Serena likely wouldn't have understood a word coming out of each other's mouths. How do you think this would have affected the early development of Amour?

I personally think that, while it would've been rather awkward and the entire "Ash gives Serena the arc words of the series" bit wouldn't have worked at all, the scene of Ash helping Serena was a universal concept. While I don't know how it would have played out, I'd be willing to bet it would still be something she never forgot.

Most of the time though, we're interested in a few lines of dialogue. And if something interesting is said, AshSerena would post it on twitter.

For some reason I'm thinking this-

Serena: (Kalosian) I Amour you!
Ash: (Kantonese) You want to give me cookies? Yes!

As for the scene itself, I think both of them would understand each other from the body language. For example, when Ash grabbed out his hand, I'm sure Serena would interpret as helping, roughly speaking, which is true.

Oh yeah and zeldafan128, there is in fact a rule against posting using subs as a source. Argument being most one day subs you see are machine transleted(try out with google translate to get an idea)and proper translation takes time.

 

[Manqoba]

Most of the time though, we're interested in a few lines of dialogue. And if something interesting is said, AshSerena would post it on twitter.

For some reason I'm thinking this-

Serena: (Kalosian) I Amour you!
Ash: (Kantonese) You want to give me cookies? Yes!

As for the scene itself, I think both of them would understand each other from the body language. For example, when Ash grabbed out his hand, I'm sure Serena would interpret as helping, roughly speaking, which is true.

Oh yeah and zeldafan128, there is in fact a rule against posting using subs as a source. Argument being most one day subs you see are machine transleted(try out with google translate to get an idea)and proper translation takes time.

I still see no rule about it. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Whatever.

Anyways, I honestly think that the language barrier would make the scene really adorable. Maybe that's just me.

We're less than 36 hours from XYZ45. Should we be taking bets on events by now? There are so many different possibilities, and so much potential.

I'm hyped, to put it simply.

 

[Red Pheonix]

I still see no rule about it. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Whatever.

Anyways, I honestly think that the language barrier would make the scene really adorable. Maybe that's just me.

We're less than 36 hours from XYZ45. Should we be taking bets on events by now? There are so many different possibilities, and so much potential.

I'm hyped, to put it simply.

I forgot where it was though. I think it was in the anime spoilers section.

Bets? 100 pokedollars on pseudoconfession.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I haven't been around as much lately so you might have discussed this already, but anyone think they might do something with Ash's "battling will help us understand each other" idea? If they do the internal monologues like they did with Clemont, Shota, and Alan it could be awesome, those seemed like they might actually have been telepathic based on what they were saying in those scenes.

 

[Omegaz]

I still see no rule about it. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Whatever.

Anyways, I honestly think that the language barrier would make the scene really adorable. Maybe that's just me.

We're less than 36 hours from XYZ45. Should we be taking bets on events by now? There are so many different possibilities, and so much potential.

I'm hyped, to put it simply.

I guess the one thing I'll say is that if Serena takes Palermo's offer, that doesn't mean the end. There would still be a very good chance for her to still show up in Alola. By all means, she most likely is already going to be a couple episodes late. Just look at Brock. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that this episode doesn't necessarily decide everything. Don't create a huge overreaction and keep your hope up no matter what.

 

[Manqoba]

I guess the one thing I'll say is that if Serena takes Palermo's offer, that doesn't mean the end. There would still be a very good chance for her to still show up in Alola. By all means, she most likely is already going to be a couple episodes late. Just look at Brock. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that this episode doesn't necessarily decide everything. Don't create a huge overreaction and keep your hope up no matter what.

I don't know. I'm not quite as optimistic as you. I do know one thing though, and that's that we're not having a riot. If you want a riot, you can get off this ship. The SS doesn't need you.

 

[Red Pheonix]

I don't know. I'm not quite as optimistic as you. I do know one thing though, and that's that we're not having a riot. If you want a riot, you can get off this ship. The SS doesn't need you.

Nope, we won't have riot..........but we'll have salty ketchup.

But seriously, I totally expect a super sweet moment between Ash and Serena. Most likely towards the end of the episode.

 

[Omegaz]

I don't know. I'm not quite as optimistic as you. I do know one thing though, and that's that we're not having a riot. If you want a riot, you can get off this ship. The SS doesn't need you.

Most likely there should be no reason to riot. But if you are going to give in this early, then you've really got to rethink things. If you jump to conclusions, you tend to miss out on things. XYZ45 will play a part in things but doesn't necessarily mean everything.

 

[TTNH03]

Don't let that be the case for 2 reasons.
1: We don't know what will happen yet in het next episode so be prepared.
2: Actually we might see a cameo of her so there's gonna be a moment later where we come back and stuff...

And we won't actually end up like the others because I think if the writers screw up they need to fix that or else a big wave of salty fans are coming
Not that we want that but it's gonna happen. They should hvae never started with this ship. I Always say: If you start something you should finish it!

What you said just now is one of the reasons why I believe Amourshipping won't ever die. Still, you can't help but wonder what we're going to be like after Serena leaves the spotlight for better or for worse.

I doubt they'll ditch it that easily though. Remember the Kalos League? That had a massive turdfest coming towards the writers' way. That was because the director always wanted Ash to lose the league until the Pokemon franchise has finally ended (which I doubt).

I think I remember the director hinting things about him supporting Amourshipping so that would be a huge advantage for us. That means this ship won't ever sink and like you said we'll be seeing her as a guest character one day too.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I guess the one thing I'll say is that if Serena takes Palermo's offer, that doesn't mean the end. There would still be a very good chance for her to still show up in Alola. By all means, she most likely is already going to be a couple episodes late. Just look at Brock. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that this episode doesn't necessarily decide everything. Don't create a huge overreaction and keep your hope up no matter what.

I think she'll appear in Alola, but more likely as a guest character or side character than main character IMO.

 

[Red Pheonix]

What you said just now is one of the reasons why I believe Amourshipping won't ever die. Still, you can't help but wonder what we're going to be like after Serena leaves the spotlight for better or for worse.

I doubt they'll ditch it that easily though. Remember the Kalos League? That had a massive turdfest coming towards the writers' way. That was because the director always wanted Ash to lose the league until the Pokemon franchise has finally ended (which I doubt).

I think I remember the director hinting things about him supporting Amourshipping so that would be a huge advantage for us. That means this ship won't ever sink and like you said we'll be seeing her as a guest character one day too.

Wait, wait, the director supporting the ship? Where? WHERE?

I don't remember exactly who said this, but someone working on the show said that Ash needed new girls to look at in response to the changing of female protagonists. Maybe Ash is actually supposed to be a player?

 

[Johtohfiller]

Wait, wait, the director supporting the ship? Where? WHERE?

I don't remember exactly who said this, but someone working on the show said that Ash needed new girls to look at in response to the changing of female protagonists. Maybe Ash is actually supposed to be a player?

I forget the guy's name but what he said was something tasteless like "little boys need new eye candy to look at". He hasn't been on the show's staff for a long time IIRC.

 

[TTNH03]

Wait, wait, the director supporting the ship? Where? WHERE?

I don't remember exactly who said this, but someone working on the show said that Ash needed new girls to look at in response to the changing of female protagonists. Maybe Ash is actually supposed to be a player?

It's Junichi Masuda. The game's composer and director of the Pokemon games.

It was mentioned in the first Amourshipping thread.

Here's a link to his tweet supporting it.

 

[Red Pheonix]

I forget the guy's name but what he said was something tasteless like "little boys need new eye candy to look at". He hasn't been on the show's staff for a long time IIRC.

Yeah, I thought it was wierd too. And he was fired? That's good I guess.

I'm pretty sure that the director doesn't dislike the idea of Ash having a girlfriend, evidenced by the blatant pushing of Amourshipping. It's not like the Takeshi Shudo(the original head honcho) when he disliked the idea of Ash having a girlfriend.

And I meant the anime director not the game director(currently the producer though).

 

[lane]

Most likely there should be no reason to riot. But if you are going to give in this early, then you've really got to rethink things. If you jump to conclusions, you tend to miss out on things. XYZ45 will play a part in things but doesn't necessarily mean everything.

Yep. I'm still gonna be on the big boat for a while (check out my sig!), to say the least.

Yeah, I thought it was wierd too. And he was fired? That's good I guess.

I'm pretty sure that the director doesn't dislike the idea of Ash having a girlfriend, evidenced by the blatant pushing of Amourshipping. It's not like the Takeshi Shudo(the original head honcho) when he disliked the idea of Ash having a girlfriend.

And I meant the anime director not the game director(currently the producer though).

1. I'm sure that it was one of the older seasons' director or something. I distinctly remember something about "need new eye candy for the little boys of Japan".

2. Mr. Masuda is the producer of the games, and I doubt that he has some say in the anime's direction - maybe some, but nonetheless, not much.

3. #2.

 

[Hakajin]

I think that one thing you forget is that Serena's dream is more than just performing or being Kalos Queen. We see, as of recently, that her dream is really about bringing smiles to people everywhere. In order to do that, she's gotta go places. What better way than to travel with Ash who all he does is give back to others. Her dream can be continued no matter where she goes.

Furthermore, Serena wasn't always a performer. I look back to those 40 episodes which dealt with her finding herself. She achieved this through the help of Ash and by taking a leap of faith leaving her mom and Ryhorn racing to join a boy whom she hadn't seen in years. You can't undervalue how much Ash means to her not just as in her crush, but in how he's had an impact on a lot of she decisions. Her path really runs parallel to that of Ash. There really isn't much of a reason for her to branch off. And if she does, is that really the right choice? Most likely not.

Right, but the point is, they're making a big deal over her choosing. That's the difference. And... I think that's a pretty common theme, one person inspiring the other to follow their dreams, and then that leading to a split. Actually, the way I imagined Serena leaving was Ash telling her she should stay and follow her dream. Then Serena would get upset, because she'd think he didn't care if they had to separate... but then they'd talk, and she'd find out that he really just wants her to do what she needs to do for herself, and he's confident they'll meet again. That kind of thing. But yeah, the main point is that the choice is being played up. If she came back and was like, "Oh, I can make people smile anywhere," then... What was the point? Why was she so conflicted in the first place?

 

[TTNH03]

And I meant the anime director not the game director(currently the producer though).

Whoops, I got mixed up between him and Masamitsu Hidaka. The previous anime director of Pokemon.
And yes, he was the one who said that "boys need a new piece of eye candy to look at every once in a while."

Still, having the producer on our side might make a difference if Serena is staying or not. haha.