Amourshipping Thread V3

[Heekful]

I'm sorry but I don't want deny anything, I'm just giving information that some seemed not to be aware, actually I gave more information than opinion there. Like I said the Pokémon anime main objective is to have good audience, that its purpose and I fail to know any better way to measure the popularity of something in the anime if not by audience or votation through official methods. I'm not saying they're not popular because of 6 random episodes, but that some of the most important and (not so) popular episodes of the matter didn't have much audience. That's the facts, now everyone is free to make their own conclusions with this information.

And is it. It's not "I'm saying", you can check the datas and see by yourself if you have doubts. The first episode of the begining of a new saga always is the episode with more audience of the saga, as well as the other most good ranking episodes are the ones of the initial stages of the new saga too, while the latter tend to have a bad performance demonstrating the wear and tear of the saga and the need of a new one. Like I said, you can check the datas and see by yourself if you have doubts.

You don't know what you are talking about because the best ranking episode of X/Y is not first one , the best was XY018 : the Snorlax episode with the little lady (oh a Clemont episode , does it mean that Clemont is the most popular character of the whole X/Y saga in Japan ? Does it mean that Clemont is more popular than Ash because his episode did way more ratings than the Kalos league ? )

Now if you want to believe that Satosere is not popular in Japan because of 6 randoms episodes that are not in the top 10 (and the episodes you are talking about are not all amour related , the skiddo race was not , dance party was a huge troll episodes and every Japanese got mad about it , the writer of the episode even had to apologize on social medias etc...) like I said you can believe it and now you can leave this thread and let the Amourshippers talk with Amourshippers...

Now I want to say one last thing : SM008 did the worst ratings of S&M saga (for the moment) so it mean that Lillie is not popular in Japan ? I don't think so.

 

[Riigoo]

You don't know what you are talking about because the best ranking episode of X/Y is not first one , the best was XY018 : the Snorlax episode with the little lady (oh a Clemont episode , does it mean that Clemont is the most popular character of the whole X/Y saga in Japan ? Does it mean that Clemont is more popular than Ash because his episode did way more ratings than the Kalos league ? )

Now if you want to believe that Satosere is not popular in Japan because of 6 randoms episodes that are not in the top 10 (and the episodes you are talking about are not all amour related , the skiddo race was not , dance party was a huge troll episodes and every Japanese got mad about it , the writer of the episode even had to apologize on social medias etc...) like I said you can believe it and now you can leave this thread and let the Amourshippers talk with Amourshippers...

Now I want to say one last thing : SM008 did the worst ratings of S&M saga (for the moment) so it mean that Lillie is not popular in Japan ? I don't think so.

Oh you're right, what surprise, this was the first time that happened since from OS, pretty curious indeed, thanks for that information. But like I said, those are not just random episodes, but important and popular episodes of Serena and amourshipping, not just one of them. If the dance party was a huge troll episode and every Japanese got mad about it, then that means that must have created a great hype because of this, right? Even so this episode didn't have enough audience though. Also, many people didn't know (or prefer not to know) but the writer of the episode apologized on social medias exclusively and solely to foreign fans, making it clear that she was not referring to the japanese. You can check the word "海外ファン" on her tweet by yourself.

Well at least towards the anime, it's what it seems to be the case in the moment, what else we can deduce with this information?

Well, if you guys repudiate expand your vision and look at things from another point of view being able to increase your own comprehension about something and are only interested in group polarization, then sure, I leave.

 

[Dephender]

Rigoo, you don't understand how ratings work, and the kind of argument you're trying to make here is the precise reason discussing ratings is banned in the anime sections in the first place. Every single one of them always ended up being people treating numbers and position among that week's 10 highest rated shows as popularity votes in order to push whatever agenda they have.

Drop this now. Everyone else, carry on.

 

[Riigoo]

Oh, it seems I have a wrong idea since from start. It seems that this thread is more likely an appreciation turned thread than a discussion thread itself. Well, I think it's also understandable why discussions with ratings don't tend to end well. My apologies then, please carry on guys.

 

[Navin]

The storyboard translation doesn't really change anything. The kiss ending already confirmed Ash knows(?) and Serena telling him she'll come back to him one day as a better person (aka an ending where Amourshippers will be happy, and non/other shippers will be cool with as well). The whole 'They'll be together in the distant future' is an intentionally safe, vague response. Do you think the director would answer, "Actually Ash doesn't necessarily reciprocate, and we're going to keep shipping him with future girls [they're already doing it S&M] when we need to jolt audience interest." The ending, alongside the director's response, doesn't change the fact that SatoSere was mishandled in opportunity and pacing, and a primarily one-sided pairing until the end, which while cute, didn't leave any opportunity to hear Ash's side. That has to be left for if Serena makes an appearance in the main series (as opposed to a special), or Ash mentioning her.

even if a girl/boy come to you and kiss you by surprise , you can still try to move or say "hey what are you doing?" but no he didn't move...but you don't stay frozen with sparkle eyes

Being surprised -> frozen on the spot -> not enough time to react since it was quick anyway. The way it was presented was altogether 'neutral', as in Amourshippers will like his reaction, and non-shippers won't see it as any more than Ash being shocked, and then being nice about it.

 

[Manqoba]

Is nobody doing a themed question? Fine, I'll do it.

How and where would Ash and Serena celebrate New Year's?

 

[Heekful]

. That has to left for if Serena makes an appearance in the main series (as opposed to a special), or Ash mentioning her.

Only the time will say it , and I will remember this post if something like that happen in the future, I know it's not possible atm but there's still 3 more years for these possibilities. I hope you will be back here if this happen.

Is nobody doing a themed question? Fine, I'll do it.

How and where would Ash and Serena celebrate New Year's?

Serena will do a performance to celebrate the new year and make people smile and then she will watch fireworks with Ash. Amourshipping week started on Tumblr and this day is about fireworks so... It's a good way to celebrate the new year.

 

[Navin]

Only the time will say it , and I will remember this post if something like that happen in the future, I know it's not possible atm but there's still 3 more years for these possibilities. I hope you will be back here if this happen.

That's the problem with these open-ended conclusions, and keeping Ash as the permanent protagonist. If Serena never gets mentioned again in the main series (as in, she only gets an Iris-like special and that's it), and ten years later, Ash is still the main character, they can do another Poke/Amour and nobody will care. Not trying to be pessimistic, but hopefully it's not something that's just forgotten over time.

 

[Genaller]

The storyboard translation doesn't really change anything. The kiss ending already confirmed Ash knows(?) and Serena telling him she'll come back to him one day as a better person (aka an ending where Amourshippers will be happy, and non/other shippers will be cool with as well). The whole 'They'll be together in the distant future' is an intentionally safe, vague response. Do you think the director would answer, "Actually Ash doesn't necessarily reciprocate, and we're going to keep shipping him with future girls [they're already doing it S&M] when we need to jolt audience interest." The ending, alongside the director's response, doesn't change the fact that SatoSere was mishandled in opportunity and pacing, and a primarily one-sided pairing until the end, which while cute, didn't leave any opportunity to hear Ash's side. That has to be left for if Serena makes an appearance in the main series (as opposed to a special), or Ash mentioning her.




Being surprised -> frozen on the spot -> not enough time to react since it was quick anyway. The way it was presented was altogether 'neutral', as in Amourshippers will like his reaction, and non-shippers won't see it as any more than Ash being shocked, and then being nice about it.

It sort of does since the director says that the intended interprtation of Ash's and Serena's last scene was that they probably would become a couple in the future. Will we ever see it happen? Who knows but I think myself and the other amourshippers are content with accepting the XY Director's opinion on the matter as opposed to yours or other supposed "neutrals". Of course for me atleast this doesn't compare to the closure of Ash finally achieving his goal but atleast the fandom now has a consolation closure on what Ash's end game will likely be and I'm betting that some here consider this closure to have even superior value to the former. I think Ash to a certain degree does reciprocate Serena's feelings based on his specific set of flashbacks he had at the end and also how he moved his foot to lean forward in order to extend the kiss but it's fine if you or other people don't think so. If your truly neutral "don't support any specific ship" then you'd still have to accept that the probability that Serena will end up with Ash in the future is FAR higher than the probability that any other female companion is ending up with him.

 

[Navin]

It sort of does since the director says that the intended interprtation of Ash's and Serena's last scene was that they probably would become a couple in the future. Will we ever see it happen? Who knows but I think myself and the other amourshippers are content with accepting the XY Director's opinion on the matter as opposed to yours or other supposed "neutrals". Of course for me atleast this doesn't compare to the closure of Ash finally achieving his goal but atleast the fandom now has a consolation closure on what Ash's end game will likely be and I'm betting that some here consider this closure to have even superior value to the former. I think Ash to a certain degree does reciprocate Serena's feelings based on his specific set of flashbacks he had at the end and also how he moved his foot to lean forward in order to extend the kiss but it's fine if you or other people don't think so. If your truly neutral "don't support any specific ship" then you'd still have to accept that the probability that Serena will end up with Ash in the future is FAR higher than the probability that any other female companion is ending up with him.

Already explained the director's response in my initial post. I don't want to bring up other ships, but I'll just say I don't see it having any higher of a probability than Poke especially if the show never mentions Serena (or at least the ship) again in the main series, and if Ash is still the MC a dozen years from now. My point is this doesn't really change anything - Amourshippers will claim mutual canon, and other/non-shippers will say otherwise, and they both are valid.

 

[Satomine Night]

How and where would Ash and Serena celebrate New Year's?

Obviously, fireworks would be involved, since it's New Year's. I imagine something similar to Heekful's suggestion. Serena would put on a New Year's Eve Showcase - either by herself or with other Performers - in Lumiose City near Prism Tower, which would be the main venue for the fireworks. She would either watch the fireworks alone with Ash or the two of them would watch them with other celebrators.

Serena would spend New Year's Day itself alone with Ash. Perhaps she will invite Ash back to her home in Vaniville Town (or wherever she lives), where she would bake him some macarons or Poképuffs, since he seems to like those, as well, and they would sit and talk about...whatever over glasses of juice (since both of them are much too young for wine or champagne ).

 

[Genaller]

Already explained the director's response in my initial post. I don't want to bring up other ships, but I'll just say I don't see it having any higher of a probability than Poke especially if the show never mentions Serena (or at least the ship) again in the main series, and if Ash is still the MC a dozen years from now. My point is this doesn't really change anything - Amourshippers will claim mutual canon, and other/non-shippers will say otherwise, and they both are valid.

Yeah considering how Poke ended Amour definitively has a far higher probability like it or not since 1 is going to try pursuing a relationship in the future while the other has very clearly moved on. You can still believe Poke is end game if you want to though the 2 are not equally likely to occur when looking at it from an entirely neutral perspective. In other words: the right to believe in a ship is equally valid regardless of the ship; however, the ships themselves can have different degrees of validity/likelihood.

It doesn't matter if he's trying to be "safe"; what matters is that he intended for fans to believe that AshxSerena is endgame (even if we never actually see it). Even if that wasn't his original intention (which I highly doubt given what I saw in the actual episode), him stating it means that's what he wants the audience to believe and your kidding me if you think he couldn't have come up with a more neutral "safe" response. If another female companion in the series were to ever lock lips with Ash, then we could begin to question the likelihood of Serena being end game (though frankly this statement is only vaccuously true).

Ash's flashbacks at the end were enough to convince me that he does reciprocate (several of the major amour moments were in his flashbacks as well as him falling on Serena of all things) and don't bother telling me that those weren't his since he's confirmed to be in all of those scenes except potentially the 1 with Serena and Bonnie in the sleeping tent and even then he could've just been quietly checking up on them.

I was truly overjoyed by the Pokémon Anime for the first time in a long while when I saw the conclusion to Amour cuz now I have closure regarding an aspect of Ash's life (who he'll eventually be with) even if the anime never actually shows it. Ash doesn't mention people like Brock anymore; doesn't mean that Brock isn't one of his closest friends.

For the record, I don't believe in Amour blindly so you telling me that my belief has no backbone is something I'm not going to take lying down.

 

[Navin]

Yeah considering how Poke ended Amour definitively has a far higher probability like it or not since 1 is going to try pursuing a relationship in the future while the other has very clearly moved on. You can still believe Poke is end game if you want to though the 2 are not equally likely to occur when looking at it from an entirely neutral perspective.

I don't have a preference either way Advance best ship. Many of us OG from the first Amour thread didn't think the ship would be (mis)handled the way it did, but at least the wonderful river scene and snowball scene gives the ending some weight. Hopefully, ten years from now, Ash isn't still the MC, Serena isn't irrelevant, and there's not the third iteration of a major Ash ship.

In other words: the right to believe in a ship is equally valid regardless of the ship; however, the ships themselves can have different degrees of validity/likelihood. It doesn't matter if he's trying to be "safe"; what matters is that he intended for fans to believe that AshxSerena is endgame (even if we never actually see it). Even if that wasn't his original intention (which I highly doubt given what I saw in the actual episode), him stating it means that's what he wants the audience to believe and your kidding me if you think he couldn't have come up with a more neutral "safe" response. If another female companion in the series were to ever lock lips with Ash, then we could begin to question the likelihood of Serena being end game (though frankly this statement is only vaccuously true).

None of this contradicts my thoughts on what he said. Yeah, I don't think he could really say anything else.

Ash's flashbacks at the end were enough to convince me that he does reciprocate (several of the major amour moments were in his flashbacks as well as him falling on Serena of all things) and don't bother telling me that those weren't his since he's confirmed to be in all of those scenes except potentially the 1 with Serena and Bonnie in the sleeping tent and even then he could've just been quietly checking up on them. I was truly overjoyed by the Pokémon Anime for the first time in a long while when I saw the conclusion to Amour cuz now I have closure regarding an aspect of Ash's life (who he'll eventually be with) even if the anime never actually shows it. Ash doesn't mention people like Brock anymore; doesn't mean that Brock isn't one of his closest friends.For the record, I don't believe in Amour blindly so you telling me that my belief has no backbone is something I'm not going to take lying down.

Lol, you're free to interpret things however you want. If you choose to believe it's mutually canon and it makes you happy, go for it!

 

[Heekful]

None of this contradicts my thoughts on what he said. Yeah, I don't think he could really say anything else.



Lol, you're free to interpret things however you want. If you choose to believe it's mutually canon and it makes you happy, go for it!

He could have said "I don't know" just like Aya Matsui did everytime she's asked by Amourshippers/Satosere fans about Serena going to Alola on Twitter you know , he is trying to make us believe that Ash could end up with Serena in the future , I don't think he was allowed to say a lie even if he does not work for S&M, he was the main director before don't forget so he could eventually know a lot of more things than us , people always forget that...

If for you the first kiss in the Pokemon anime and a old director talking about being a couple in the future is not enough for you to make you believe that they will end in couple... I mean... What will ? No offense to others ships but I don't think the others ships have a lot of little hints like this when it comes to a potential ending or a potential couple(except maybe Pokeshipping).

 

[Shooti]

I don't have a preference either way Advance best ship. Many of us OG from the first Amour thread didn't think the ship would be (mis)handled the way it did, but at least the wonderful river scene and snowball scene gives the ending some weight. Hopefully, ten years from now, Ash isn't still the MC, Serena isn't irrelevant, and there's not the third iteration of a major Ash ship.

It's not about ship preference, it honestly baffles me when someone says their preferred ship be it poke/advance (or whatever) has almost equal chance of happening as amour. We're in 2016... I mean in 2017. Misty and May have almost been forgotten, Dawn and Iris might be joining that list soon. Serena is not immune to it, and if she's not referred in Alola and the following region, she'd encounter the same fate as her predecessors. But, that's about 5-6 years from now on. Until then, without a doubt Amour has the best chance of going canon whether you like/hate or are neutral to Amourshipping.

You seem to prefer Advance over other Ash ships but if someone asks you, does it have stronger hints than Poke/Amour/Pearl/Contest or does it have higher chance of going canon than Poke/Amour/Pearl/Contest ? You'd probably reply with a NO. Similarly, I've met many fans of other shippings on youtube who have conceded that Amour has way higher chance of going canon (under present scenario) than their preferred ship as of now and probably for the next 4-5 years depending on Serena's potential cameo and the Amourshipping content in it.

In Amour, you had two main characters kiss each other and the director officially confirming it. In many Japanese animes if two main characters share a kiss, they generally do end up together in most cases. It does not work like in real life where we have multiple relationships with frequent break-ups.

The Ash-Serena kiss moment would probably be irrelevant in 2025 if Serena stops making cameos but as of now, it's a big deal.

EDIT : I think nothing is stopping future writers/directors from pulling another Amour/Poke with a random future generation protagonist, but I think it won't happen anytime soon in Alola or the generation following it . They would take their time to let fans forget Serena/Amourshipping in case they plan to invent another major ship with Ash and a poke girl in the future.

 

[Navin]

You'd probably reply with a NO.

Oh lol, I guess I wasn't clear. In terms of likelihood, the only one up there with Amour is Poke simply because it was the first and most known (height of the show's popularity) and there's enough mutual hints in that. But even that assumes the show's ending, or at least Ash as the MC, is years away. If the show ended tomorrow and you had to place bets, of course it'll be Amour. Hope that made sense.

Similarly, I've met many fans of other shippings on youtube who have conceded that Amour has way higher chance of going canon (under present scenario) than their preferred ship as of now and probably for the next 4-5 years depending on Serena's potential cameo and the Amourshipping content in it.In Amour, you had two main characters kiss each other and the director officially confirming it. In many Japanese animes if two main characters share a kiss, they generally do end up together in most cases. It does not work like in real life where we have multiple relationships with frequent break-ups. The Ash-Serena kiss moment would probably be irrelevant in 2025 if Serena stops making cameos but as of now, it's a big deal. EDIT : I think nothing is stopping future writers/directors from pulling another Amour/Poke with a random future generation protagonist, but I think it won't happen anytime soon in Alola or the generation following it . They would take their time to let fans forget Serena/Amourshipping in case they plan to invent another major ship with Ash and a poke girl in the future.

Yeah, I'm talking about long-term.

He could have said "I don't know" just like Aya Matsui did everytime she's asked by Amourshippers/Satosere fans about Serena going to Alola on Twitter you know , he is trying to make us believe that Ash could end up with Serena in the future , I don't think he was allowed to say a lie even if he does not work for S&M, he was the main director before don't forget so he could eventually know a lot of more things than us , people always forget that... If for you the first kiss in the Pokemon anime and a old director talking about being a couple in the future is not enough for you to make you believe that they will end in couple... I mean... What will ? No offense to others ships but I don't think the others ships have a lot of little hints like this when it comes to a potential ending or a potential couple(except maybe Pokeshipping).

Difficult to say "I don't know" when asked especially with how he ended it. I'm not saying he's lying, but, just like the ending, I think he gave a safe response by referencing the "future." How much will that quote hold up 5-10 years from now if Serena is never mentioned again? That's why I'd place much more stock on future references.

 

[Shadao]

No one can say what will happen long-term, but if fans are still here after 20 years and still remember the days where Ash started in Kanto, I feel the kiss may linger on a lot longer than one might expect. It's not a matter of whether Serena returns or not, but rather whether Ash (and the writers) will remain faithful to her and her promise. If the next 20 years past and Serena does not appear, but Ash also does not gain a new love interest in that timeframe, Amourshipping still remains the highest chance of becoming official canon.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Is nobody doing a themed question? Fine, I'll do it.

How and where would Ash and Serena celebrate New Year's?

They'd probably hang out with their friends and do something festive, tho they could alternatively just spend the day alone together for the sake of giving us more shipping moments hee hee. Speaking of New Year's, my wish for the new year in regards to Amourshipping is that we'll see Serena make a return in SM for a few episodes so that she'll be with Ash again. I think we'll need something like that as extra fuel for the ship, kind of like positive reinforcement to keep Amour thriving. :3

 

[XY&Z Legend]

They'd probably hang out with their friends and do something festive, tho they could alternatively just spend the day alone together for the sake of giving us more shipping moments hee hee. Speaking of New Year's, my wish for the new year in regards to Amourshipping is that we'll see Serena make a return in SM for a few episodes so that she'll be with Ash again. I think we'll need something like that as extra fuel for the ship, kind of like positive reinforcement to keep Amour thriving. :3

It'll be great to see Serena return for the SM anime this year, but how would she react if she saw Lillie, Lana, Mallow, or even Anabel, flirt with Ash? That would probably be an interesting plot element, which would drive Serena into Yandere territory!

 

[snorlax512]

If they don't make anything happen this gen I don't see any possibility for amour being the endgame. The majority of the viewers at the time will have never seen XY&Z, much less care about Serena. Not to say that the majority of viewers who enjoy amour shipping will probably no longer be invested in the show.