Amourshipping Thread V3

[Satoshi no masara]

I'm really curious on this comment. Why do you feel that she has to work on her maturity because her voice shifted when she saw Ash? Ash's voice also shifted. Both voices seemed to convey excitement.

Notice how in the very first scenes with Chloe, Serena sounded so different, as if it was a different VA (but yes it was still Mayuki Mikaguchi) but her voice suddenly shifted to her original voice as she was talking to Ash (even Japanese fans noticed the changes on the tone of the voice). It definitely show how excited she was to see Ash again at that time. She's more lady-like now compared to her old self but also couldn't help but feel excited to see Ash again that she kinda dropped the matured tone of voice. She's still seem to be working her way to become the person she wanted to be. By no means this is any indication that her voice will affect her attitude towards Ash a but it was a nice little detail that shows she's still working her way to her own growth.

Haha, I may be one of the only ones that doesn't necessarily need to see characters get married with kids. I just like different variations of innocent romantic fluff. I don't see Ash ever aging after all.

Well, I'm not asking for them to be married and have kids as well at the end of JN (but hey, if that happens, I'll praise the writers for doing so lol). I'll be more than satisfied if there's a slight romantic implications that will show that Ash and Serena have clear future together. Heck, just give me a tomato Serena again, and I'm still going to be satisfied.

If the romantic "baggage" (the mention of the kiss, their childhood encounter, the more charming lady thing , among other things mentioned to Goh/Koharu) was partly the reason they wanted to avoid having them talking to each other for an extended time, it be interesting to see how they try to manuver around it across an entire episode when they aren't seperated. It's probably easier to do than I think.

This is exactly what got me worried after JN105. Don't get me wrong, I do like and appreciate that the thing that the writers wanted to bring up during Ash and Serena's brief reunion are their current goals, and I understand that they don't feel like touching the kiss yet (or any romantic implications between the two) but at some point in the anime, they will have to address it. Going back to our early discussion, Serena's return definitely raises some concern in terms of what the writers will do with the romantic sub-plot that lead to what Amourshipping is now. How will they address the kiss and how will they work their way out of it. So far, we can only wait and see and if Serena will still reappear for at least one or two more episodes. Honestly, the wait is killing me lmao.

 

[Power Up]

It doesn't help that the background music that was used was called "Friends Forever", which some pointed out as well.

Oof, I didn't know that was the name of the background music.

 

[Epicocity]

Considering the Alola League reused the same battle track once an episode, I wouldn't put too much stock into the name of a track, especially when the name of said track came from the games. Over time, themes take on a life of their own and can come to mean something different. Its titling is truly the least important part. And this applies across the board.

 

[Hyuuga28]

Ultimately, Serena did most of the heavy lifting with the pair. As much of the promotion Amour got during XY's run was essentially, "Hey guys, Serena likes Ash!", even during long stretches of episodes where there'd be no Amour whatsoever. The only article we got with Serena recently was primarily focused on her mentoring Chloe. Ash himself was never the strongest force in these things being intentionally romantic.

Serena's tomato side was usually promted by some other external force, like Milliefeui actively showing an interest in Ash (she had no issues with Ash chilling with Korrina), a character pointing it out, or Ash cluelessly: saying "Let's go out" or falling on her. Outside of that, she was always able to interact with him without fumbling around her words and being nervous. The core of her affection for him has always been "admiration". So in a sense, that part is clearly retained in Journey's.

You could also say that the exchange (abbreviated):

Ash: I'm gonna be the best battler!
Serena: If you're gonna be the best, I'll aim to be the best performer, too!

Shows that she still aims to "reach" him and still gets drive from his words. I also tend to dislike the term "got over" because to me it has a negative connotation. That said, I don't know if we can say we'll ever get that external push again to bring out her tomato side again.

 

[Satoshi no masara]

That said, I don't know if we can say we'll ever get that external push again to bring out her tomato side again.

Who knows, maybe if she's reunited with Bonnie again. I want to say Chloe might have a chance to strike that tomato side of her but I feel she'll just distract Serena with contests and stuff.

 

[masdog]

Notice how in the very first scenes with Chloe, Serena sounded so different, as if it was a different VA (but yes it was still Mayuki Mikaguchi) but her voice suddenly shifted to her original voice as she was talking to Ash (even Japanese fans noticed the changes on the tone of the voice). It definitely show how excited she was to see Ash again at that time. She's more lady-like now compared to her old self but also couldn't help but feel excited to see Ash again that she kinda dropped the matured tone of voice. She's still seem to be working her way to become the person she wanted to be. By no means this is any indication that her voice will affect her attitude towards Ash a but it was a nice little detail that shows she's still working her way to her own growth.

I understand what you're getting at. I wasn't sure what you meant originally when you said she still needed to work on her maturity. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

But as for that last part, I'm both interested to know more, and dismayed that the shade throwing might not be limited to just the west.

I’m by no means an expert so don’t really take what i say as some kind of verdict.

But two example is how there’s a particular satosere vid on Niconico where the comment has kinda been raided by people spamming dawn all over the video. The other being how last year’s favorite heroine poll had all comments that favoring serena be downvoted to hell, while dawn comments get upvoted. There was also a comment that was saying about how viciois dawn fans seem to be. Last year’s poll was also the one where dawn and a few others had a big last minute spike in votes.

But again, i’m not someone who actually spend much time in the JP community, so don’t take my words too seriously.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

In a lot of ways the episode felt like it was trying it's hardest to maneuver around touching on it (it's by far his shortest reunion to date) and I'm not entirely sure that's a good sign for it's future in potential later cameos...different director visions and all, with this one seemingly just going for platonic friendships all around. I'd personally love to hear how the Japanese fandom looked at it because I know it's very popular. Do they think it's more platonic-ish now, or unchanged? I'd say it feel like it's in a sort of limbo.

I think it was very respectful. They tried to make a compromise of having a Serena cameo AND a reunion of her with Ash all the while WITHOUT having to address the romance portion. They did a good job. I feel like they want to make it ambiguous so if they - or their sucessors - want to bring Serena back again, they can.

Yup, they had better impression of the episode considering majority of the Japanese fans were not aware of the said leaks. They were in for a surprise at that time. I'd imagine this thread (or any SNS) would have had better impression as well if not for the animedia leak

Speaking entirely by myself, I have no issue with neither leaks nor spoilers. Actually, those can make me more excited for the content than "going in blind". But that's just me.

Honestly, I really really only trust Yajima to be the one to handle any possible Serena returns and how she'll interact with Ash (maybe Omode as well).

Currently, I'd prefer having Omode handling the writting than even Tomioka and Yonemura themselves. She put a lot of effort into Serena for all we know, so I think she can do a great work and address the romantic angle in a sensible way.

Off: speaking of Omode and taking opportunity of the Dawn mention, if Dawn does come back again, I really hope they let Omode write for her. Gee, I feel like Dawn's first return would've been a lot better if Omode was doing it. If Tomioka, Yonemura and even Matsui were too busy at time, at least go for the next veteran in the line.

Max is literally the only companion who hasn’t appeared in JN yet

Sad as I don't really dislike him. Hope he gets a chance at some point.

Who knows, maybe if she's reunited with Bonnie again. I want to say Chloe might have a chance to strike that tomato side of her but I feel she'll just distract Serena with contests and stuff.

But for that, Chloe needs to know Serena loves Ash.

Though, to be honest I'd be more interested on her reaction after finding out all the stuff Serena taught her were based on stuff Ash said. I really feel like Chloe's dynamic with Ash could use a bit of her seeing him in perspective other than a "pokémon idiot/fanatic/whatever"

 

[masdog]

But for that, Chloe needs to know Serena loves Ash.

Though, to be honest I'd be more interested on her reaction after finding out all the stuff Serena taught her were based on stuff Ash said. I really feel like Chloe's dynamic with Ash could use a bit of her seeing him in perspective other than a "pokémon idiot/fanatic/whatever"

Chloe: So you traveled with Serena before Ash?
Ash: Yeah. We spent a lot of time together in Kalos. We had a lot of fun. It was awesome watching her become this great performer.
Chloe: Really?
Ash: And before we left Kalos, she did this thing to say goodbye. It was a bam like getting hit by Pikachu's thunderbolt, but it felt a lot nicer. I really liked it.
Chloe: <Eyes Sparkle> Did she kiss you?
Ash: <visibly confused>
Chloe: <cat mouth> Of course you wouldn't understand that... Anyway, I need to make a call.

 

[Observer]

Chloe: So you traveled with Serena before Ash?
Ash: Yeah. We spent a lot of time together in Kalos. We had a lot of fun. It was awesome watching her become this great performer.
Chloe: Really?
Ash: And before we left Kalos, she did this thing to say goodbye. It was a bam like getting hit by Pikachu's thunderbolt, but it felt a lot nicer. I really liked it.
Chloe: <Eyes Sparkle> Did she kiss you?
Ash: <visibly confused>
Chloe: <cat mouth> Of course you wouldn't understand that... Anyway, I need to make a call.

Don't worry Ash knows what a kiss is, he's had several by this point

 

[Satoshi no masara]

Though, to be honest I'd be more interested on her reaction after finding out all the stuff Serena taught her were based on stuff Ash said. I really feel like Chloe's dynamic with Ash could use a bit of her seeing him in perspective other than a "pokémon idiot/fanatic/whatever"

Would be nice to see Chloe hearing about Serena from Ash's perspective. Imagine all the stuff that he can say about her and then he brings up the "There's nothing you could do that will be pointless" line and Chloe realizes that Serena learned them from Ash. Not only will it open a new perspective of Ash to Chloe, but it's also a good opportunity for her to find out how important Ash is to Serena and maybe learn about her feelings

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Chloe: So you traveled with Serena before Ash?
Ash: Yeah. We spent a lot of time together in Kalos. We had a lot of fun. It was awesome watching her become this great performer.
Chloe: Really?
Ash: And before we left Kalos, she did this thing to say goodbye. It was a bam like getting hit by Pikachu's thunderbolt, but it felt a lot nicer. I really liked it.
Chloe: <Eyes Sparkle> Did she kiss you?
Ash: <visibly confused>
Chloe: <cat mouth> Of course you wouldn't understand that... Anyway, I need to make a call.

This reminds me of Goku never kissing his wife scene from Dragonball Super lol

 

[Observer]

This reminds me of Goku never kissing his wife scene from Dragonball Super lol

Yet some way some how we have Gohan and Goten.

 

[Hyuuga28]

I think it was very respectful. They tried to make a compromise of having a Serena cameo AND a reunion of her with Ash all the while WITHOUT having to address the romance portion. They did a good job. I feel like they want to make it ambiguous so if they - or their sucessors - want to bring Serena back again, they can.

That's a fair enough assessment. I'm just surprised that, out of all Ash's companions, they choose to make Serena's meet up with him the shortest. Maybe they felt reducing their interaction down to the last minute of the episode was best for her character and the tone of Journey's. This is the first time a traveling companion has come back and had virtually no reconnecting time with Ash, especially after so long.

 

[Manqoba]

That's a fair enough assessment. I'm just surprised that, out of all Ash's companions, they choose to make Serena's meet up with him the shortest. Maybe they felt reducing their interaction down to the last minute of the episode was best for her character and the tone of Journey's. This is the first time a traveling companion has come back and had virtually no reconnecting time with Ash, especially after so long.

idk about you but personally I'm still rooting for

I hope she said "text me you dumbass we have cellphones now"

 

[TTNH03]

Well, I'm back just like I say I would whenever there's a hint of shipping between them.

Although this episode doesn't really hint much, it's nice to see interaction between Ash and Serena. I guess the writers were being careful with how to handle this sort of thing. There are a decent amount of people supporting this ship so if they stuff up, hell will break loose. That and you can also assume they're both still in the middle of achieving their dreams but when it's over, you can assume they might get together.

Also, Serena looks really mature in this one just like she said would at the end of XYZ (makes me wish they just make all the characters in their teens).

Either way, it's nice to see Serena return again. At around 5 years no less too. I guess the highest chance of seeing see her could be in the XY remake/port which is going to be a while...

 

[Shadao]

That's a fair enough assessment. I'm just surprised that, out of all Ash's companions, they choose to make Serena's meet up with him the shortest. Maybe they felt reducing their interaction down to the last minute of the episode was best for her character and the tone of Journey's. This is the first time a traveling companion has come back and had virtually no reconnecting time with Ash, especially after so long.

Romance is often done in a short and brief manner in Japan, so it'll be more worrisome if Ash and Serena were to have more time together. If they won't address the romance and kiss, then their interactions would easily become mere friendship than something a bit more special. I mean, Ash's interaction with Misty, Dawn, and Iris, all show him acting as good friends with them... but never anything more.

Forcing Ash and Serena's reunion to be brief causes the two to immediately call out for each other and declare their goals for the future. They have no time to make their reunion feel normal like with the other reunions, so every moment they see each other is cherished forever like the sight of cherry blossoms.

Incidentally, I found this tweet that best sums up romance in Japanese media.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514109944894660610

 

[Power Up]

Considering the Alola League reused the same battle track once an episode, I wouldn't put too much stock into the name of a track, especially when the name of said track came from the games. Over time, themes take on a life of their own and can come to mean something different. Its titling is truly the least important part. And this applies across the board.

Do I think the title of the song track is the nail in the coffin, affirmative proof that Amour has been platonicized? No, not really. But do I think that it might mean something? Yeah, I think it's possible.

Again, many people are willing to spin the " subtleties " of the episode in a pro-Amour direction with references that I think might be honestly weaker then the song choice so at the very least there should be some recognition that they could easily be spun the other way.

 

[Epicocity]

Do I think the title of the song track is the nail in the coffin, affirmative proof that Amour has been platonicized? No, not really. But do I think that it might mean something? Yeah, I think it's possible.

Again, many people are willing to spin the " subtleties " of the episode in a pro-Amour direction with references that I think might be honestly weaker then the song choice so at the very least there should be some recognition that they could easily be spun the other way.

Come on, man. We once had the Kalos Elite Four battle theme played while Ash, Serena and Clemont were running down a hallway in fear in the Espurr episode. It genuinely doesn't mean anything. Unless you mean they were subtly hinting that the hallway was a member of an Elite Four and they were battling it.

We had the Legendary Battle theme used for Showcases. Wasn't aware Xerneas and Yveltal were there.

It's just a musical track, one not made specifically for the anime, one that wasn't named for the anime. It being used for that moment is not some subtle reference. And frankly, I find some of the stuff people have said leaning for Amour just as ridiculous (such as the green light stuff), so this isn't me pulling for my ship. It's just common sense.

Was still significant as an XY piece in the episode given returns are the ones mostly afforded old music from Miyazaki over Hayashi. That's the real takeaway.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Romance is often done in a short and brief manner in Japan, so it'll be more worrisome if Ash and Serena were to have more time together. If they won't address the romance and kiss, then their interactions would easily become mere friendship than something a bit more special. I mean, Ash's interaction with Misty, Dawn, and Iris, all show him acting as good friends with them... but never anything more.

Forcing Ash and Serena's reunion to be brief causes the two to immediately call out for each other and declare their goals for the future. They have no time to make their reunion feel normal like with the other reunions, so every moment they see each other is cherished forever like the sight of cherry blossoms.

Incidentally, I found this tweet that best sums up romance in Japanese media.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514109944894660610

“The second you’re in a committed relationship, one of you has a job and you don’t see the other again”
Yikes this doesn’t look good for Amour