Amourshipping Thread V3

[Speed22]

I'm going to try and get this back on topic.

If Ash is battling Steven and there's a small chance that Serena, Lisia, and Wallace are watching it; do you think they might pick up on the fact that Serena has feelings for Ash and probably tease her about it?

The PWC is shaping up to be complete dogs**t. I don't even want Serena in the arc at this point.

Her absence might make it easier for me to ignore the PWC and JN entirely.

 

[Heekful]

So now that Ash vs Steven is confirmed I really want the Hoenn squad (Wallace, Lisia, Serena, May) to watch this set.

All of them coming to the stadium to watch the fight in person seems a bit delusional knowing JN’s standards but I’m sure a little cameo of them watching could happen… Who knows?

We have at least one month of speculation due to those breaks so we’ll see.

 

[Satoshi no masara]

I feel so conflicted right now, lol. On one hand, I want to see Serena cheering for Ash but on the other, I don't want to see Serena cheering for Ash only for it to be something generic.

This matchup is so predictable. Quite obvious that Ash, Leon and Cynthia will advance. Diantha vs Lance is a 50/50 but it's likely that Lance will be the one to advance. RIP not only to Alain but also Iris and Steven (a.k.a my favorite champion).

 

[PotSmuggle]

Alain wins these

In all seriousness, Fs for my boy. I hope he and Ash can at least get their promised rematch somewhere.

 

[Power Up]

I feel so conflicted right now, lol. On one hand, I want to see Serena cheering for Ash but on the other, I don't want to see Serena cheering for Ash only for it to be something generic.

This matchup is so predictable. Quite obvious that Ash, Leon and Cynthia will advance. Diantha vs Lance is a 50/50 but it's likely that Lance will be the one to advance. RIP not only to Alain but also Iris and Steven (a.k.a my favorite champion).

I guess we can hope that the PWC being a disappointment mirrors the Kalos League disappointment and in the end we get something between Serena and Ash in JN!

 

[Speed22]

I guess we can hope that the PWC being a disappointment mirrors the Kalos League disappointment and in the end we get something between Serena and Ash in JN!

INB4 SV is about them opening up a training and performing school in Spain.

 

[AARTX]

I guess we can hope that the PWC being a disappointment mirrors the Kalos League disappointment and in the end we get something between Serena and Ash in JN!

It’s pretty much a carbon copy of the Kalos League. The game changer here is if Ash wins against the m8 "Alain".

We still have PM and whatever it is they want to do with Koharu and it’s looking like it’s just gonna be Gary Tokio and Goh in the mew expeditions so Ash may be somehow involved with Koharu’s arc and that could be leeway to more Ash-Serena interactions (I know it’s so out there, but that one particular scene with the reserves in the Paul episode gave me this idea kekw)

 

[Speed22]

I'm making a discord server so that we can all laugh at the incoming trainwreck if anyone is interested.

 

[Manqoba]

I know some of y'all are allergic to hope at the moment, but I do have to say I really like how they decided to have Ash and Iris hanging around before the masters tournament like old times. It's a nice touch and a good piece of interaction for them that wasn't strictly necessary. And in that spirit, I have to wonder if there might be more interactions with a certain someone else before the series is done.

 

[Heekful]

I know some of y'all are allergic to hope at the moment, but I do have to say I really like how they decided to have Ash and Iris hanging around before the masters tournament like old times. It's a nice touch and a good piece of interaction for them that wasn't strictly necessary. And in that spirit, I have to wonder if there might be more interactions with a certain someone else before the series is done.

Sorry to sound negative again but Dawn, Iris (and probably Misty soon) can hang out normally with Ash because... They are not Serena.

Due to XY and all the serious things that happened in it, it might be hard to have Ash and Serena hang out together again and they know it, that's why they used this Wallace gag in JN105 to prevent Ash and Serena from meeting too long. And no, I don't believe it was used as a way to tease the viewers to give them a better reunion later.

Back when JN105 aired I thought it could be the case but now seeing all these breaks and how there's so few episodes left with a lot of arcs to close, there's no way that they'll have room for an episode focused on Ash and Serena. To me, the best we can hope is a little cameo of Serena watching Ash's battles for fanservice but I don't expect more.

 

[Blood Red]

Sorry to sound negative again but Dawn, Iris (and probably Misty soon) can hang out normally with Ash because... They are not Serena.

Due to XY and all the serious things that happened in it, it might be hard to have Ash and Serena hang out together again and they know it, that's why they used this Wallace gag in JN105 to prevent Ash and Serena from meeting too long. And no, I don't believe it was used as a way to tease the viewers to give them a better reunion later.

Back when JN105 aired I thought it could be the case but now seeing all these breaks and how there's so few episodes left with a lot of arcs to close, there's no way that they'll have room for an episode focused on Ash and Serena. To me, the best we can hope is a little cameo of Serena watching Ash's battles for fanservice but I don't expect more.

Best to manage your expectations, yeah; JN hasn't really given me any reason to hope for more than we already have, especially with how they've accidentally teased some stuff that never actually panned out.

 

[AARTX]

Sorry to sound negative again but Dawn, Iris (and probably Misty soon) can hang out normally with Ash because... They are not Serena.

Due to XY and all the serious things that happened in it, it might be hard to have Ash and Serena hang out together again and they know it, that's why they used this Wallace gag in JN105 to prevent Ash and Serena from meeting too long. And no, I don't believe it was used as a way to tease the viewers to give them a better reunion later.

Back when JN105 aired I thought it could be the case but now seeing all these breaks and how there's so few episodes left with a lot of arcs to close, there's no way that they'll have room for an episode focused on Ash and Serena. To me, the best we can hope is a little cameo of Serena watching Ash's battles for fanservice but I don't expect more.

I was actually expecting the Serena return to be near the end of JN (or not at all) and I was surprised it happened so soon.

Of course because of the kiss and the nature of Serena’s goal, they were essentially "star crossed lovers" and in a way, believe it or not, separating them actually respects Yajima’s vision for the two (hence why Wallace was there).

Problem is we’re probably not gonna have a resolution to this anytime soon….and there’s also the chance that the writers could throw all that away by retconning it.

 

[Mega Ampharos the Dragon]

At this point, I'm just thinking about the Gen IX anime when it comes to Amourshipping since there is probably gonna be nothing else for Serena in JN.

I'm hoping in Gen IX, they keep Ash, but they age him and he'd be more like the Brock or Clemont of the series whilst the main character is either the SV protag or an anime-only character who is 10 years old.

I'd hope that if Ash ages, it'd be about 5 to 7 years preferably (don't like the idea of an adult Ash, lol)

Due to how SV is set up, I'm hoping that the main plot of the Gen IX anime revolves around how Ash is the past and the new trainer is the future since that seems to be the theme for this generation.

And since Ash would hopefully age, we could have more Amourshipping moments and/or have Serena travel with Ash and the new trainer

I think I'm inhaling too much copium and/or I just don't like where JN is going so much that I've just canonized the Ancienverse

Spoiler: Cannon of Copium

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I’ve heard people speculate that this is Ashs last season as protag. If this is true would Ash and Serena’s kid be the new protagonist of the anime?

 

[Speed22]

Sorry to sound negative again but Dawn, Iris (and probably Misty soon) can hang out normally with Ash because... They are not Serena.

Due to XY and all the serious things that happened in it, it might be hard to have Ash and Serena hang out together again and they know it, that's why they used this Wallace gag in JN105 to prevent Ash and Serena from meeting too long. And no, I don't believe it was used as a way to tease the viewers to give them a better reunion later.

Back when JN105 aired I thought it could be the case but now seeing all these breaks and how there's so few episodes left with a lot of arcs to close, there's no way that they'll have room for an episode focused on Ash and Serena. To me, the best we can hope is a little cameo of Serena watching Ash's battles for fanservice but I don't expect more.

Steven is our only hope for any substantial extra Serena content. Hopefully there's a bit more Amour so that some of the ship obsessed kids will be satisfied. I don't have much hope right now though.

Best to manage your expectations, yeah; JN hasn't really given me any reason to hope for more than we already have, especially with how they've accidentally teased some stuff that never actually panned out.

We've been in this situation before during XY. If they didn't learn their lesson then, they won't learn it now.

I was actually expecting the Serena return to be near the end of JN (or not at all) and I was surprised it happened so soon.

Of course because of the kiss and the nature of Serena’s goal, they were essentially "star crossed lovers" and in a way, believe it or not, separating them actually respects Yajima’s vision for the two (hence why Wallace was there).

Problem is we’re probably not gonna have a resolution to this anytime soon….and there’s also the chance that the writers could throw all that away by retconning it.

Honestly I almost wish they would. Then I could completely ignore almost anything that came after XY. Never seen a series so pathetically desperate as JN. I'm just glad that JN105 was a great episode.

At this point, I'm just thinking about the Gen IX anime when it comes to Amourshipping since there is probably gonna be nothing else for Serena in JN.

I'm hoping in Gen IX, they keep Ash, but they age him and he'd be more like the Brock or Clemont of the series whilst the main character is either the SV protag or an anime-only character who is 10 years old.

I'd hope that if Ash ages, it'd be about 5 to 7 years preferably (don't like the idea of an adult Ash, lol)

Due to how SV is set up, I'm hoping that the main plot of the Gen IX anime revolves around how Ash is the past and the new trainer is the future since that seems to be the theme for this generation.

And since Ash would hopefully age, we could have more Amourshipping moments and/or have Serena travel with Ash and the new trainer

I think I'm inhaling too much copium and/or I just don't like where JN is going so much that I've just canonized the Ancienverse

Spoiler: Cannon of Copium

I'm about to fully read through Ancienverse for the first time, and I might just mentally canonise it by the time this series is over too.

 

[Satoshi no masara]

Getting my composure back. The negativity inside me has died down a little so I can reply in a more positive manner.

Anyways:

I know some of y'all are allergic to hope at the moment, but I do have to say I really like how they decided to have Ash and Iris hanging around before the masters tournament like old times. It's a nice touch and a good piece of interaction for them that wasn't strictly necessary. And in that spirit, I have to wonder if there might be more interactions with a certain someone else before the series is done.

It's nice to see Ash and Iris still being their usual self despite them being in Masters 8, you don't really need to act all tough and mighty all the time just because you are one of the strongest out there. Also nice to see Cynthia and Diantha looking happy and upbeat as well.

As for interactions, one can only hope but given the nature of this current season and we don't know yet who the upcoming "surprise characters" will be, hard to say that we will see more AshxSerena interactions.

At this point, I'm just thinking about the Gen IX anime when it comes to Amourshipping since there is probably gonna be nothing else for Serena in JN.

I'm hoping in Gen IX, they keep Ash, but they age him and he'd be more like the Brock or Clemont of the series whilst the main character is either the SV protag or an anime-only character who is 10 years old.

I'd hope that if Ash ages, it'd be about 5 to 7 years preferably (don't like the idea of an adult Ash, lol)

Due to how SV is set up, I'm hoping that the main plot of the Gen IX anime revolves around how Ash is the past and the new trainer is the future since that seems to be the theme for this generation.

And since Ash would hopefully age, we could have more Amourshipping moments and/or have Serena travel with Ash and the new trainer

I think I'm inhaling too much copium and/or I just don't like where JN is going so much that I've just canonized the Ancienverse

Spoiler: Cannon of Copium

Yeah, having Ash age (even if they don't exactly say it but some implications that he aged) would be a nice scenario provided that they still don't want Ash to graduate from the anime. I really want a more matured Ash with lots of experience and someone who is mentoring the next generation. It's also a good excuse for Ash to officially date Serena because Areceus forbids that 10 years old in this anime still cannot have relationships despite some romantic implications

I’ve heard people speculate that this is Ashs last season as protag. If this is true would Ash and Serena’s kid be the new protagonist of the anime?

Honestly, would be nice to see a grown up Ash married to Serena and their child is the next main protagonist. That's the perfect ending imo but the anime is nowhere near perfect. Least we can hope is to see Ash age at least 5-7 years (as in Ash in his teens) as an experienced trainer and stable relationship with Serena.

Due to how SV is set up, I'm hoping that the main plot of the Gen IX anime revolves around how Ash is the past and the new trainer is the future since that seems to be the theme for this generation.

My idea for this theme is how they can explore more of Ash's past (a good time to bring up his father meybe?) and his future-self. It's a good way to explore more of what happened during Ash and Serena's childhood and at the same time, what their future together would be like. Their childhood backstory is a good setup for Serena to admire Ash but it would be nice to see more of what happened during their summer camp.

Best to manage your expectations, yeah; JN hasn't really given me any reason to hope for more than we already have, especially with how they've accidentally teased some stuff that never actually panned out.

Anipoke really need to learn how to build up hype. Even during XY and SM, they are not good at hiding any spoilers (e.g. Ash holding the Alola champion trophy).

Steven is our only hope for any substantial extra Serena content. Hopefully there's a bit more Amour so that some of the ship obsessed kids will be satisfied. I don't have much hope right now though.

Best way to do it is with Wallace delivering the news to Lissia and either Lissia tells Serena about it or she overhears the conversation though I'm also not convinced how this will bring any strong amourshipping hint. I can only hope that this is the time Lissia will be able to pickup on Serena's feelings for Ash and tease her about it.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Anime not having Ash romantically interested (not counting Giselle for argument's sake; it was another time) sounds more like a choice than anything. On Yokai Watch - which has the same target audience as Pokémon and at the height of its popularity nearly surpass it - had Nate, the main character, have a crush on Kate, his classmate and neighbor. I think what they do with Ash is more of a CHOICE because compromising with one ship will irritate the fans of the other thus they aim to meet the lowest level denominator.

I didn't mean to compare Ash's relationships with Dawn and Serena, only to point out that there's precedent for Ash to exchange numbers and communicate with his friends off-screen. The route I would imagine is that Serena exchanged numbers with Chloe as you said, and then after it was obvious Serena, Ash and Chloe all mutually knew each other, Chloe would've given Serena's number to Ash and/or Ash's number to Serena so they could communicate directly.

After the story about a town giving over 40 million yen of covid relief to a single resident partly because they've sent info to the bank via floppy disks (!!!) I think the older guys working in the show simply isn't aware of logical things like exchanging contacts and stuff.

The new « leaked » episode confirms that

Spoiler

Alain is not battling Ash

meaning that the retcon of Ash-Greninja might be serious after all (but at least Yajima is working on this episode , that’s cool I guess).

You know, at first I always tried to take those « Tomiyasu hates XY » as a joke and some people on this thread even tried to explain to me that this is not the case but the more I see JN saga runs the more I think this is actually legit, chance of a better Ash and Serena reunion seems way less likely now , we’ll see but JN105 could very well be the only content we get for the next years to come.

Sorry for the negativity of course but with all these leaks and these supposed retcons it’s hard to stay positive, I would love to be proven wrong.

I don't know what's worse:

a) Having Alain to return but the rematch isn't with Greninja but with fanfic-fullfillment Lucario beating Xzard in a legacy way
b) Have the trouble of bringing Alain back but he doesn't battle Ash at all.

Either way, I'm happy Alain's got a Chesnaught. But at the same time, I'm kind of pissed because counting movie 17 that's the 4th major character who got a member of the Chespin line. Going for media and spin-offs, there's X getting one on the Special/Adventures manga too. Feels like Ash's the only one not allowed to have one of his own. Danm it.

And seeing Leon beat him will be really sad to watch. The final evo of my favorite Pokémon being beaten by who I consider the worst champion will be hard to watch.

And I can't even say I'll take revenge by sweeping him in the game with Alain's team because Grand King Masuda has forbidden the Kalos starters to set foot on Galar.

Dawn got all those special treatments because of the DP remakes and Legend Arceus, now that all this Sinnoh hype is over (thank god lol) I don’t see them bringing Dawn back again after JN, it will also depend if Tomiyasu stays as a director or not after JN is over, but I don’t see them making any ships canon out of nowhere without any build up even if Tomiyasu loves to retcon XY stuffs he’ll go into very dangerous territory if he retcons the kiss.

Considering some japanese companies are very stubborn with admitting certain stuff I highly doubt they'd do apparent major chances. Maybe something more subtle like being more strict about approving some of his decisions but that'll be it.

Either way, seeing how the current Tomiyasu regime is turning out makes me really grateful the show had gotten someone like Yuyama in charge. He was far from perfect but I feel he was very good at making compromises and being assertive with most of his decisions about the show. They might've not been the best but they helped the show grow relatively healthy.

This is probably the dumbest take on this forum, bar none. JN has done more with XY and Kalos than any other series or region after Kanto. It had the first actual on-screen character returns. Ash has had more meaningful visits there than any other region. We've seen two of their Elite4 members, including the first one that Ash defeated. And Serena and Greninja both had amazing return episodes.

So can we please put this to rest?

I don't believe on this as well. I feel it's more weak writting overall.

Even the Dawn returns weren't that good aside the Arceus special.

His tenure reminds me more of Dan Didio's on DC Comics where he seems to micromanage and try to do fanservice while subverting for the sake of "being different" but that's just an impression. Only thing I'm confident is that it's good intentions but badly done.

I will never blame Yajima because he is the reason why we all loved XY

The only issue I had with Yajima's tenure was not giving Ash a Chespin. So, basically a minor issue lol

This being the only thing in my mind proves how well rounded the show was overall. Far from perfect, but very good.

Who knows, maybe he said that as a way of saying that Amourshipping is the endgame, whenever the anime will end that is. Of course with the current director, it's very unlikely it will end soon and that romance is out of the question but maybe, just maybe, if they are ready to actually move on from Ash's journey then they can just set him up for an ending where he marries Serena in the unforeseeable future.

I feel like it's more to "throw a bone" for shippers so they can keep appreciating everything the show's given.

I know, that's what makes this entire series so rage inducing. Subverting too many expectations is what causes people to check completely out of things. The last few Ashime series have been all about subverting expectations. Just give people what they want without any nasty surprises every once in a while, at least then they might appreciate the subversions a bit more. It just feels like we've all been taken for a ride, and have been left out in the desert.

As I've said somewhere else:

I think my main issue with the show is that most of the "fanservice" end up being a half-boiled egg, half-full glass of water. They try to do things they assume we want but are clearly not really into it, so the end result ends up being... Not that good. Sure, there are exceptions but I'm starting to think that Gary's and Serena's episodes only turned out fine because they know they are super popular so marketing was very demanding.

I don't mind subverting expectations but those need to be done in an assertive way not in a "do the complete opposite of what people expect". Sometimes the best choice is going the obvious route. And that can work as long as it's properly handled.

But I dunno, current show seems to do its best to waste all its potential for no good reason at all.

Y’all need to cut down on the salt. This much not good for your heart…

Salt is only good on potato fries

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Anime not having Ash romantically interested (not counting Giselle for argument's sake; it was another time) sounds more like a choice than anything. On Yokai Watch - which has the same target audience as Pokémon and at the height of its popularity nearly surpass it - had Nate, the main character, have a crush on Kate, his classmate and neighbor. I think what they do with Ash is more of a CHOICE because compromising with one ship will irritate the fans of the other thus they aim to meet the lowest level denominator.


After the story about a town giving over 40 million yen of covid relief to a single resident partly because they've sent info to the bank via floppy disks (!!!) I think the older guys working in the show simply isn't aware of logical things like exchanging contacts and stuff.


I don't know what's worse:

a) Having Alain to return but the rematch isn't with Greninja but with fanfic-fullfillment Lucario beating Xzard in a legacy way
b) Have the trouble of bringing Alain back but he doesn't battle Ash at all.

Either way, I'm happy Alain's got a Chesnaught. But at the same time, I'm kind of pissed because counting movie 17 that's the 4th major character who got a member of the Chespin line. Going for media and spin-offs, there's X getting one on the Special/Adventures manga too. Feels like Ash's the only one not allowed to have one of his own. Danm it.

And seeing Leon beat him will be really sad to watch. The final evo of my favorite Pokémon being beaten by who I consider the worst champion will be hard to watch.

And I can't even say I'll take revenge by sweeping him in the game with Alain's team because Grand King Masuda has forbidden the Kalos starters to set foot on Galar.


Considering some japanese companies are very stubborn with admitting certain stuff I highly doubt they'd do apparent major chances. Maybe something more subtle like being more strict about approving some of his decisions but that'll be it.

Either way, seeing how the current Tomiyasu regime is turning out makes me really grateful the show had gotten someone like Yuyama in charge. He was far from perfect but I feel he was very good at making compromises and being assertive with most of his decisions about the show. They might've not been the best but they helped the show grow relatively healthy.

I don't believe on this as well. I feel it's more weak writting overall.

Even the Dawn returns weren't that good aside the Arceus special.

His tenure reminds me more of Dan Didio's on DC Comics where he seems to micromanage and try to do fanservice while subverting for the sake of "being different" but that's just an impression. Only thing I'm confident is that it's good intentions but badly done.


The only issue I had with Yajima's tenure was not giving Ash a Chespin. So, basically a minor issue lol

This being the only thing in my mind proves how well rounded the show was overall. Far from perfect, but very good.

I feel like it's more to "throw a bone" for shippers so they can keep appreciating everything the show's given.

As I've said somewhere else:

I think my main issue with the show is that most of the "fanservice" end up being a half-boiled egg, half-full glass of water. They try to do things they assume we want but are clearly not really into it, so the end result ends up being... Not that good. Sure, there are exceptions but I'm starting to think that Gary's and Serena's episodes only turned out fine because they know they are super popular so marketing was very demanding.

I don't mind subverting expectations but those need to be done in an assertive way not in a "do the complete opposite of what people expect". Sometimes the best choice is going the obvious route. And that can work as long as it's properly handled.

But I dunno, current show seems to do its best to waste all its potential for no good reason at all.

Salt is only good on potato fries

I would take B any day. I would prefer Ash and Alain not to battle at all than to have any other Ash Pokemon but Ash-Greninja (especially Lucario) to beat MCX

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

This is probably the dumbest take on this forum, bar none. JN has done more with XY and Kalos than any other series or region after Kanto. It had the first actual on-screen character returns. Ash has had more meaningful visits there than any other region. We've seen two of their Elite4 members, including the first one that Ash defeated. And Serena and Greninja both had amazing return episodes.

So can we please put this to rest?

I don't believe on this as well. I feel it's more weak writting overall.

Even the Dawn returns weren't that good aside the Arceus special.

His tenure reminds me more of Dan Didio's on DC Comics where he seems to micromanage and try to do fanservice while subverting for the sake of "being different" but that's just an impression. Only thing I'm confident is that it's good intentions but badly done.

Just to add to my previous point since I forgot:

I don't think there's any hatred or grudge involved at all. I'd say it's more about around the range of being "intimated" or simply having no idea how to handle it. The way things XY did the things go the opposite way of the current vision for the show. Basically "trying to please two masters at once". The math doesn't give a correct result. So because of it, they do compromises like trying to delay the meeting and then being vague/evasive about everything else.

 

[masdog]

I think what they do with Ash is more of a CHOICE because compromising with one ship will irritate the fans of the other thus they aim to meet the lowest level denominator.

I think it’s definitely a deliberate choice. Since Pokémon changes regions and Ash’s companions every 3-ish years, they can’t really tie Ash down with too much history that will be hard to reference in the future. (That said, I don’t think it stopped the anime from subtly hinting that Ash may feel something towards Serena…at least that is what I thought I picked up on during a few scenes…)

Does Japan have the same issue with romance in kids shows that “the West” has? I wonder if that may play a part in this too.

I feel it's more weak writting overall.

I agree when you have to turn out 40-ish episodes a year, some corners are going to be cut in a lot of places. There just isn’t time to really perfect and polish every episode.

I don't think there's any hatred or grudge involved at all. I'd say it's more about around the range of being "intimated" or simply having no idea how to handle it. The way things XY did the things go the opposite way of the current vision for the show. Basically "trying to please two masters at once". The math doesn't give a correct result. So because of it, they do compromises like trying to delay the meeting and then being vague/evasive about everything else.

I’m not sure I’d agree around the staff being intimidated. I think they have an idea on how they want to tackle everything, but they have to deal with fitting 20+ years of continuity into a single series while also turning out episodes weekly. This isn’t an environment for putting out the kind of work that will satisfy more discerning adult fans who grew up with the show and have very high expectations.