Amourshipping Thread V3

[Damerdal]

>Someone who’d forgive you for all the sins you committed and love you unconditionally won’t make a good spouse

Gotta love how a lesson in perseverance and tenacity turns into a ‘mysogyny’ thing in the west LMAO

I don’t know what part of the world you guys live in but here, loving someone enough to accept their faults and forgive them for what they’ve done is actually considered an admirable trait. It means you got a big heart. It’s the kind of love a mother feels for her children, a love that asks nothing in return, a love that keeps on giving.

Yeah, in healthy relationships. Not whatever toxic "romance" Sakura and Sasuke have going.

Something something Japanese values of loyalty, screw that, Sakura literally had no reason to keep loving Sasuke.

Kishimoto just didn't write a good romance.

 

[Dark_King25]

Kishimoto just didn't write a good romance.

Ash and serena are literally what naruhina should be.

 

[Morax]

Not whatever toxic "romance" Sakura and Sasuke have going.

Sasuke might not be the ideal father/husband, but to say they have a toxic relationship is overblowing it.

 

[World Turtle]

Doesn’t the Sharingan literally cause mental illness or something? Something about it getting stronger through stress or trauma? Bit of a cop-out, but I think it was a war is hell message there.

Also, I want to apologize if I came off as a Toxic Anti-Shipper in any of my previous posts. Fan-fiction which has been my main exposure to romance between anime characters (since the actual anime doesn’t focus on it) has left me kind of jaded.

They say 90% of everything is crap and only the remaining 10% is good. I don’t think that’s true except in the case of romance.

If the girls aren’t being bashed like crazy they’re treated as objects whose love for Ash is their only purpose in life and exist to boost Ash’s ego. Especially in harem fics where the girls are treated as a checklist of conquests. This is what I mean when I say people only like Serena because she likes Ash. They don’t care about her as her own character or person. They just care about her becoming Ash’s perfect waifu.

Though I’ll note it doesn’t help this issue isn’t exclusive to Pokémon. Finding well written romance in any fandom is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. (Though I’ll note if it’s an official couple then canon usually provides writers material to work with increasing the chance of finding good stuff easier)

 

[Damerdal]

Sasuke might not be the ideal father/husband, but to say they have a toxic relationship is overblowing it.

Sakura is the perfect example of a girl stuck in a bad relationship because she wants to "fix" him. She liked him because she thinks he's hot and has a cool edgy attitude. She wrecked a friendship because Ino also liked him. Aaaaaannnnndddd that's pretty much the depth of it. Meanwhile, Sasuke doesn't care about her at all. He becomes a terrorist, and at one point, they're both trying to literally kill each other on a couple of occasions. I have no idea why Sakura was such a doormat over this guy. Kishimoto tries to weirdly justify it by saying Sakura has to be "loyal", which I understand is important in Japanese culture, but there's no basis for her to be that loyal and even be attracted to the guy. Then he knocks her up and proceeds to be an absentee father. Sure, he had a mission, but he could have wrote more often or showed up every now and then.

 

[masdog]

I don’t know what part of the world you guys live in but here, loving someone enough to accept their faults and forgive them for what they’ve done is actually considered an admirable trait. It means you got a big heart. It’s the kind of love a mother feels for her children, a love that asks nothing in return, a love that keeps on giving.

There is a difference between accepting someone's faults/forgiving them and putting up with them treating you like "shiat." We can all be jerks to our partners at times, or say something hurtful. That's part of being in a long-term relationship, and you apologize and work to fix it. But if it's a repeated thing (ie being treated like "shiat" on an ongoing, repeated basis), or it appears to be unhealthy or toxic, then it goes beyond being an admirable trait.

When you say that someone loves someone that treats them like "shiat," you're basically saying that they're putting up with some abusive behavior... Is it admirable if someone continues loving a partner that is emotionally abusive? Physically abusive? Sexually abusive? Do you accept their faults that drive those behaviors and forgive them?

 

[greninjamaster]

Sakura is the perfect example of a girl stuck in a bad relationship because she want to "fix" him. She liked him because she thinks he's hot and has a cool edgy attitude. She wreck a friendship because Ino also liked him. Aaaaaannnnndddd that's pretty much the depth of it. Meanwhile, Sasuke doesn't care about her at all. He becomes a terrorist, and at one point, they're both trying to literally kill each other on a couple of occasions. I have no idea why Sakura was such a doormat over this guy. Kishimoto tries to weirdly justify it by saying Sakura has to be "loyal", which I understand is important in Japanese culture, but there's no basis for her to be that loyal and even be attracted to the guy. Then he knocks her up and proceeds to be an absentee father. Sure, he had a mission, but he could have wrote more often or showed up every now and then.

This 100%. Sasasaku does not age well at all especially in todays social climate. You would hope Sakura would get the hell out of the toxic relationship and think about herself for once. But it was always about Sasuke even when he was trying to kill her. It's one of the most toxic relationships I've seen promoted in media and to see it celebrated is so disheartening.

I still remain convinced Kishimoto just hated women.

 

[World Turtle]

I don’t know if they’d change Ash when or if he gets older to be more “aware” but I know there is some concern he’ll turn into Goku 2.0 or whatever and basically never be home as he continues traveling and training while his hypothetical wife gets stuck at home raising their kids by themself.

I’d honestly prefer Ash remain single then see that happen to Misty or Serena. Or for Ash to become that sort of clueless jerk.

EDIT: Sorry for the cynicism Rica's interviews regarding Ash and romantic love are not very encouraging.

 

[Panky..]

I'm totally unsure on how one post by me, pointing out similarities in the rise of anti-Serena/anti-Amour sentiments near AniPoke's endgame being similar to the scenario of anti-NaruHina sentiments (by the NS fanbase primarily) near Naruto's endgame, gave birth to an entire unrelated tangent of SasuSaku and toxic relationships.

What the eternal ****?

 

[World Turtle]

I'm totally unsure on how one post by me, pointing out similarities in rise off anti-Serena/anti-Amour sentiments near AniPoke's endgame being similar to the scenario of anti-NaruHina sentiments (by the NS fanbase primarily) near Naruto's endgame, gave birth to an entire unrelated tangent of SasuSaku and toxic relationships.

What the eternal ****?

I can't resist I have to ask by NS do you mean NaruSaku or NaruSasu or both?

 

[masdog]

I'm totally unsure on how one post by me, pointing out similarities in the rise of anti-Serena/anti-Amour sentiments near AniPoke's endgame being similar to the scenario of anti-NaruHina sentiments (by the NS fanbase primarily) near Naruto's endgame, gave birth to an entire unrelated tangent of SasuSaku and toxic relationships.

What the eternal ****?

Because we can’t stay on topic?

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

Jokes aside, I doubt it would be that simple. First of all, he needs to acknowledge the entire thing that happened at the airport and address his own feelings on the matter. Doesn't matter how much time it takes, as long as it's done organically and a 'show' manner, there shouldn't be a problem. A funny and cute scenario would be Serena managing to tease and fluster Ash in some way (he only did that nose rub around her iirc).

I’ve always thought that easiest way i can see that happening is for ash to basically give a rendition of serena’s goodbye. By saying something along the lines he’s gonna be the as good as a goal for her as he can, then returning the kiss.

It could poke into ash’s lack of skill in romance, by saying he couldn’t come up with his own words (which let’s be honest, would’ve just been onamonapias), and show how ash hold onto what serena says much like her to what he says.

 

[masdog]

Jokes aside, I doubt it would be that simple. First of all, he needs to acknowledge the entire thing that happened at the airport and address his own feelings on the matter. Doesn't matter how much time it takes, as long as it's done organically and a 'show' manner, there shouldn't be a problem. A funny and cute scenario would be Serena managing to tease and fluster Ash in some way (he only did that nose rub around her iirc).

Agreed. The show needs to deal with the implications of the kiss and Ash's feelings.

I don't think it would take much. They could do it in 1-2 episodes depending on the setup. I hate to fall back on this example, but Phineas and Ferb acknowledged and resolved Phinebella in one episode (granted a time skip was involved for Act Your Age).

It could poke into ash’s lack of skill in romance,

Uh...phrasing?

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Agreed. The show needs to deal with the implications of the kiss and Ash's feelings.

But they probably won’t, just like how they’ve ignored a lot of things (AG vs MCX rematch)

 

[Morax]

emotionally abusive? Physically abusive? Sexually abusive?

Lol none of that sh!t happened here. You’re taking the worst implication of that word. By treating her like sh!t i meant giving her the cold shoulder. I guess i need to choose my words carefully….

Like i said in one of earlier posts, Naruto is a story about forgiveness. That an ‘eye for an eye’ is not always the correct solution. Sasuke, our antagonist turns to the dark side because it feels like a quicker way out of his problems but our hero doesn’t give up on him and brings him back to the light. That’s what it’s all about. Because no matter how low you may have fallen, you are still worthy of redemption.

It’s the kind of ‘turn the other cheek’ philosophy that mahatma gandhi advocated for during the british raj. It assumes the best in human beings because nobody is inherently evil.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

XY are officially ten years old..
God Gen 6 was the best. The anime was amazing. Amourshipping and Ash Greninja…

I WANT TO GO BACK. The anime has just getting worse since XYZ ended

Makes me want to rewatch this series again, it definitely had better animation.

 

[Ragnarok4]

And this is similarly a non-dismissive statement of my opinion lol. Ash in DP was much more expressive, emotional and outgoing than he was in XY, where he felt toned down in comparison. I agree the battle bot and generic shounen hero statements can be over exaggerations, but he genuinely felt much more toned down even when he displayed past characteristics sparingly. It's like someone's ideal version of Ash who can be most compared to Red, that's honestly what XY Ash feels to me. People may enjoy his badass moments and more stable personality, but for others it just comes across as bland and charmless. It's alright if you don't agree, but let's not pretend XY Ash is a consistent version of Ash unlike BW, SM or JN Ash. BW Ash doesn't at all follow Ash from DP, XY doesn't from BW, and SM doesn't from XY. That's my whole point
Only replying to this because you claimed i was just dismissing your viewpoint

I feel Serena's goal has evolved beyond wanting to be a Kalos Queen though. She did want to be Kalos Queen in XY but her endgame goal is to just be a fantastic performer who can make others smile, something she chooses to hone by going to Hoenn and as we see in JN105, has become very competent in and forms an idol group with Lisia gaining even more fans and creating even more smiles
Kalos Queen isn't really her dream anymore, just bettering herself as a performer and continuing to be an idol with Lisia and May seems to be fulfilling her dream

I agree, starting from DP, all Ash's feel different, JN Ash being somewhat similar to other versions but much more with SM Ash

 

[Epicocity]

Doesn’t the Sharingan literally cause mental illness or something? Something about it getting stronger through stress or trauma? Bit of a cop-out, but I think it was a war is hell message there.

Also, I want to apologize if I came off as a Toxic Anti-Shipper in any of my previous posts. Fan-fiction which has been my main exposure to romance between anime characters (since the actual anime doesn’t focus on it) has left me kind of jaded.

They say 90% of everything is crap and only the remaining 10% is good. I don’t think that’s true except in the case of romance.

If the girls aren’t being bashed like crazy they’re treated as objects whose love for Ash is their only purpose in life and exist to boost Ash’s ego. Especially in harem fics where the girls are treated as a checklist of conquests. This is what I mean when I say people only like Serena because she likes Ash. They don’t care about her as her own character or person. They just care about her becoming Ash’s perfect waifu.

Though I’ll note it doesn’t help this issue isn’t exclusive to Pokémon. Finding well written romance in any fandom is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. (Though I’ll note if it’s an official couple then canon usually provides writers material to work with increasing the chance of finding good stuff easier)

I mean, if you're looking for fics/series where Serena isn't treated that way, I'd say to give mine a whirl.

Romance isn't the main focus of it, in the end, dealing more with larger concepts in the realm of identity, the future, legacy, among other things, but with Ash and Serena as the main pairing with the most focus, Amour still takes some focus. In it, I definitely treat them as their own characters, learning and growing into more independent people with their own dreams and goals. They help each other, but they distinctly don't exist just to be the others' cheerleader.

 

[Panky..]

I mean, if you're looking for fics/series where Serena isn't treated that way, I'd say to give mine a whirl.

Romance isn't the main focus of it, in the end, dealing more with larger concepts in the realm of identity, the future, legacy, among other things, but with Ash and Serena as the main pairing with the most focus, Amour still takes some focus. In it, I definitely treat them as their own characters, learning and growing into more independent people with their own dreams and goals. They help each other, but they distinctly don't exist just to be the others' cheerleader.

In addition to this, RtbaPM was also shaping up to be a decent series before the writer got creative block and exhaustion, and abandoned the project.

 

[Epicocity]

In addition to this, RtbaPM was also shaping up to be a decent series before the writer got creative block and exhaustion, and abandoned the project.

Given it was a series that had Serena turn into a raging, jealous witch every time Ash made contact with other girls, I think it kinda falls into the realm of what they were talking about with regards to romance in fanfics. I didn't care for where that series was taking Serena.