Amourshipping Thread V3

[Morax]

It's also known to be written very misogynistically a lot of the time though.

for example? pls be specific

 

[AARTX]

Sometimes I feel like AmourShippers want to defeat themselves. This fandom was literally served the biggest miracle in the history of Pokemon shipping so far and yet so many people are ready to scuttle their ship just because it isn't getting loudly reaffirmed at every turn.

When you’re at the top, the only enemy is yourself.

 

[Dark_King25]

It’s not necessarily a bad thing but its not a necessity either. The girl being dependent on the boy doesn’t make it a terrible romance.

Of course nagisa would be dependent she's sick. Comparing Clannad to pokemon is like comparing the notebook to avengers

 

[Morax]

Of course nagisa would be dependent she's sick. Comparing Clannad to pokemon is like comparing the notebook to avengers

But shouldn’t girls be ‘stronk and independent’?

 

[Dark_King25]

But shouldn’t girls be ‘stronk and independent’?

Well in a battle focused series of course they should

 

[Dark_King25]

Not necessarily.
That's like saying 'Karate originated in japan so everybody living there should be a black belt holder'.

That is a really poor comparison. What I said is more like 'Everyone who is taking karate should at least know how to punch, kick and should be brave enough to take hits'

Inconsistent because you're changing your standards depending on the genre.

No I'm not I'm just acknowledging nagisa's situation on why she is like that.

 

[Blood Red]

Serena was never really ‘dependent’ on Ash either, he was just a huge part of her character and that hasn’t really changed.

 

[Dark_King25]

Serena was never really ‘dependent’ on Ash either, he was just a huge part of her character and that hasn’t really changed.

I really agree with this serena barely thought of ash while she is performing while ash thought a lot about serena during some of his gym battles.

 

[Morax]

What I said is more like 'Everyone who is taking karate should at least know how to punch, kick and should be brave enough to take hits'

>but shouldn’t girls be stronk and independent?
>in a battle focused series of course they should
That’s totally not the same thing as before?

The point is that everybody in a battle focused series doesn’t necessarily have to be a battler…..

No I'm not I'm just acknowledging nagisa's situation on why she is like that.

>It’s okay for girls to be frail, weak and dependent in a romance/tragedy focused anime
>but not in a battle focused anime! They should all know how to throw a punch!

If that’s not inconsistency then i don’t know what is but anyways, it’s pointless to continue this further so here you go

 

[Dark_King25]

The point is that everybody in a battle focused series doesn’t necessarily have to be a battler…..

That is not what I'm saying being strong doesn't equate to being a good battler

>It’s okay for girls to be frail, weak and dependent in a romance/tragedy focused anime

That's not what I meant what I'm saying is that I understand nagisa's dependence because she's sick


Man you really love the Yamato nadeshiko trope do you.

 

[Morax]

That is not what I'm saying being strong doesn't equate to being a good battler
That's not what I meant what I'm saying is that I understand nagisa's dependence because she's sick


Man you really love the Yamato nadeshiko trope do you.

Not as much as watermelons.

 

[Dark_King25]

Do not step into JustCallMeAL/greninjamaster territory with this shitty 'argument', step back now. For the record, a lot of her episodes were written by female writers.

I don't think that Gohmaster is talking about the Serena episodes but the dependent trope in general which is not Serena tho she is kinda violating rule 3 sometimes

When you’re at the top, the only enemy is yourself.

We're suffering from success

 

[Power Up]

I wrote a gargantuan piece on how episode 105 was cruddy if it isn't sufficiently followed up on and argued with several others in a several page spanning argument. If you want to see a critique that isn't reliant on you bashing Cricket, someone who is just an lolcow at this point and isn't going to change from being an embarrassing person no matter how many times I and others have told him to stop, feel free to read it. I think I'm about as annoyed at people giving him legitimacy be responding to his posts as I am just annoyed at him. He's not a serious person.

Amourshipping Thread V3

idk about going that far, it seems a little off-putting. Plus, if Ash's kid looks identical to him, we might never get shown who the mother is The series can reveal who the mother is. Instead of son, what about daughter?

forums.serebii.net

The on-going discussion right now are simply retreaded arguments that were made when this episode has originally dropped, nothing has changed.

As always and is something I've made extensively clear several times, perfectly willing to cede to arguments that episode 105 was neutral or even good if the theorized follow-up episode is something substantial. Not just perfectly willing, I would be ecstatic to be wrong.

If there's nothing of the sort, that's fine. As I said in my conclusion to that post:

The show isn't XY anymore. I don't think it will ever be like XY again.

 

[Panky..]

I don't think that Gohmaster is talking about the Serena episodes but the dependent trope in general which is not Serena

It's not 'misogynistic' to be dependent on someone if it's a positive relation and the person helps prop you up, and in turn, you help prop them up in whatever positive way you can. It's only toxic if you completely leech off them and make them unhappy and smothered, which Amour has never been. Besides, Ash certainly didn't get to where he is today (execution being a different matter) by being a lone wolf, he's definitely been dependent on the people around him, and he's certainly given as good as he has gotten.

tho she is kinda violating rule 3 sometimes

Rule what now?

 

[masdog]

It’s not necessarily a bad thing but its not a necessity either. The girl being dependent on the boy doesn’t make it a terrible romance.

That depends on how you define "dependent." There is a lot of romance where the characters come to rely on each other emotionally. That mirrors how real-life relationships develop.

Dependent gets a lot of push back because it has a can have a much more negative connotation, though. People hear that and assume that one person is completely giving up everything for the sake of the other person. So a "dependent Serena" would be one who gives up her dreams of being a performer to follow Ash around and S.I.M.P. simp for him. She'd have no agency of her own.

Of course nagisa would be dependent she's sick. Comparing Clannad to pokemon is like comparing the notebook to avengers

The Notebook might not be the best Nicholas Sparks novel/movie to use as a comparison. Don't get me wrong, it's VERY good. Most of Nicholas Sparks' early work is good (and only becomes formulaic once he starts getting movie deals for his novels...) But the Notebook is more about two people who used to be in love reconnecting and finding love again.

Clannad, from the brief description I've seen here and on TVTropes, sounds more like "A Walk to Remember."

By the way...you should really read that novel and watch that movie @Morax. I think you might enjoy it.

SatoSere falls under the category of ‘romance’ and so does clannad, we’re not exactly comparing apples and oranges here.

What do you mean inconsistent? To me the reason why its natural for nagisa to be dependent because she is sick in a series focused on tragedy and romance. While Serena on other hand is alive and well and has huge ambitions in a series focused on magical creatures so she should be independent and not revolve around ash but that does not mean she should not love ash any less.

You both might want to check out some non-anime romance and women's fiction literature and movies. They're really good, and they're great at broadening perspectives.

It's not 'misogynistic' to be dependent on someone if it's a positive relation and the person helps prop you up, and in turn, you help prop them up in whatever positive way you can. It's only toxic if you completely leech off them and make them unhappy and smothered, which Amour has never been. Besides, Ash certainly didn't get to where he is today (execution being a different matter) by being a lone wolf, he's definitely been dependent on the people around him, and he's certainly given as good as he has gotten.

I agree with @Panky.. here.

 

[Dark_King25]

It's not 'misogynistic' to be dependent on someone if it's a positive relation and the person helps prop you up, and in turn, you help prop them up in whatever positive way you can. It's only toxic if you completely leech off them and make them unhappy and smothered,

Yeah for a female character to revolve around most of her development and personality around a man(e.g. Hinata) is kind off regressive writing which was never serena's case.

Besides, Ash certainly didn't get to where he is today (execution being a different matter) by being a lone wolf, he's definitely been dependent on the people around him, and he's certainly given as good as he has gotten

Come to think of it ash is probably the most dependent character in the anime

Clannad, from the brief description I've seen here and on TVTropes, sounds more like "A Walk to Remember."

That movie is the one that sold me into the romance genre

Rule what now?

You are allowed to voice criticism/skepticism towards the ship here, but if we get the feeling that you are only here to constantly discourage Amourshippers and/or talk about how unlikely or bad the ship is, please leave.

cricket and other doomposters should be reminded of this too

So a "dependent Serena" would be one who gives up her dreams of being a performer to follow Ash around and S.I.M.P. simp for him. She'd have no agency of her own.

It just bugs me on how a lot of people want her to be like hinata or any kishimoto female character

 

[Damerdal]

I guess it depends on what you consider "canon". I think of Like Korrasami or Shecat or Lumity or Sakuruto as canon since they officially got together.

"Canon" as in Serena admitted and confessed her feelings. Misty's crush back in OS was never confirmed nor did she ever confess, but it was super obvious (even in the original, the dub added to it).

Well we are in the final leg of the story were the main rival ship has a resurgence in popularity and also we barely have any amour let alone Serena related content post XY.

I just don't think the writers want to, nor know how to, address the elephant in the room. Hence, they kept Ash and Serena's reunion so brief. It's easy when Serena's crush on XY was mostly a gag. It's a lot harder to show Ash talking about romance, or suddenly developing overt reciprocated feelings, especially when they didn't bother to do this during the 3 years of XY.

As I've said before though, what they could have done is had them be alone for a scene, where Ash starts to ask, "So Serena, about what hap-" and Serena interrupts, shaking her head and saying, "You know how I feel about you, Ash. I'll get you to feel the same way back one day!" Ash looks initially surprised, but then smiles and nods his head. Then the scene immediately moves on to something else.

A bunch of ambiguous stuff that needs headcanon stretching/reaching doesn't constitute as a "hint", especially when the on-screen showing comes off as platonic (much less the sibling playfighting vibes it gives).

I mean, it was pretty obvious end of MPM Ep 2 was a hint, especially given their history back in OS.

However, like I said, if nothing else happens, then Amour 'wins' by default, even if Serena doesn't come back in the remaining episodes.

What do you mean inconsistent? To me the reason why its natural for nagisa to be dependent because she is sick in a series focused on tragedy and romance. While Serena on other hand is alive and well and has huge ambitions in a series focused on magical creatures so she should be independent and not revolve around ash but that does not mean she should not love ash any less.

The first thing people think of with Serena is: 'the girl who likes Ash.' Not Showcase Performer. JN105 at least tried to change that perception. It's honestly a good thing the anime is showing she's not just simping after Ash.

I wrote a gargantuan piece on how episode 105 was cruddy if it isn't sufficiently followed up on and argued with several others in a several page spanning argument.

 

[Power Up]

You didn't read my post if this is your response.

 

[Dark_King25]

It's honestly a good thing the anime is showing she's not just simping after Ash.

she barely even simped for ash in the first place I don't really get this perception that Serena's entire personality in xy revolved around ash

 

[Power Up]

she barely even simped for ash in the first place I don't really get this perception that Serena's entire personality in xy revolved around ash

Correct, that perception is really only pushed due to the fact that Serena's relationship with Ash was new for the anime. The only reason Serena is known as " the girl who likes Ash " and not Showcase Performer is because Ash was relevant to her character arc and of course, the romantic subplot to their relationship was something never done before.

Even if they completely killed AmourShipping entirely, Serena would just be known as the " the girl who liked Ash. "