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Amourshipping Thread V3

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Lol, why do I get the impression that these rebuttals are to perceptions that were probably meant to be half-jokes.

Obviously Serena didn't worship Ash, but she also bantered a lot less than other Pokegirls. Early sassy Serena would have been so great. It's not that Serena being kind, nurturing, sweet, and polite aren't amazing qualities, nor the fact that her interactions with Ash were always so supportive and overall healthy, but there's an entire side of Ash who's totally snarky and hilarious (see MPM 02 with Misty). It would have been great if Serena did banter more with Ash. Their relationship would have felt more complete then.

I will say though, there was no need for Serena to go a full year of XY episodes before her goal finally got underway at XY060. The audience knew by episode 20 that she was interested in baking, fashion, and that 'girls should make themselves cute'. She could have learned about Showcases during the Pokevision episode, watched one by XY25, and by XY35-40 had her first Showcase. The problem was outside of those couple of focus episodes, Serena was largely just 'there' in the other episodes during the first year. It's why her crush became her defining feature, because her goal took quite a bit of time to get going.



However, I do disagree strongly with this notion that Serena had to struggle in her goal:
I can't believe I would ever need to talk in the Amourshipping thread but here we are.

Considering Epicocity's negation of the lack of actual development during Serena's first year during a discussion in another thread, I wouldn't take them seriously for that argument.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I mostly Agree the only problem I have is that there are some instances in showcases that really felt catered to Serena like Rhyhorn herding and pokepuff baking but it really fits the theme of "nothing we really do is pointless" so I'm willing to look past that
That argument makes more sense than her not sharing any responsability for how her team performs in my opinion.

That said, i reckon it felt cattered to her because she took the time to choose a goal with her personal tastes in mind after learning more about what kind of activities she enjoyed doing on the first stage of the series.

Even then, she could still fail at activities she enjoyed like the styling challenge, or face things she didn't have much experience at like the trivia challenge, as she still had to work to get the opportunity to answer and do her best to remember what she learnt in her journey if she did know the answer, which was not always the case. Overall, it served the purpose of showing that every learning experience can be valuable like you mentioned.

I do think they could have better explained to the audience which activities could potentially be part of the first round without comprising too much the surprise factor they were going for. But that has more to do with the lack of more early exposition than it has to do with the activites themselves or Serena being a "mary-sue" on them and for the most part they were cohesive with the theme of activities often seen on entertainment shows and/or popular within Kalos' culture.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
He literally defeated gold in masters. And his Pikachu is actually tied with Cynthia's garchomp as the highest leveled pokemon npc in the games
And why is that a huge metric? Again, he may have the highest leveled Pokemon in the game tied with Cynthia, but he's still just a champion. There's nothing out there that gives him any superiority over any other champion, as shown when Pokemon Masters with all their love for Red were too chicken to actually show him as superior to Cynthia
tbh for the Red thing, I still prefer Spe Red over Ash, but yeah Origins Red was eh. Either way the real comparison in Spe is Black, who is literally just a better written Ash
I love how Kusaka tried to emulate the anime a bit in DP/PT arc but didn't manage to make interesting characters (atleast in my opinion, Dia Pearl and Platinum were too boring), but then in BW he perfects the anime protagonist role with Black
I love Black as well, he's my favourite PokeSpe character, but i feel his ending is really weak. He didn't get much of a cathartic ending in BW which felt intentional at the time but then....he was just there in B2W2 with nothing. I really don't like his ending
Red is hailed by the fandom as the strongest because technically, he has the highest level team for a long time, even above Cynthia. With a level 81 or 88 Pikachu as his strongest Pokémon. However, a lot of these praises are less about Red being great on his own right, and more of the fandom being so insecure that the most famous trainer of Pokémon is Ash... and Ash is all too real for them. A person with flaws, who doesn't always win, and is clearly far from succeeding his dreams to becoming Pokémon Master.

In the beginning, there was no distinction between Red and Satoshi. As far as Japan and Satoshi Tajiri were concerned, Ash and Red were the same person. That changed when Gen II came around and in hindsight, for the worst. Red was slowly being separated from Ash in an unusual manner. Whereas Gary/Shigeru and Blue/Green were understand to be practically the same person, Ash/Satoshi and Red were given a conscious effort by the fandom to not confuse the two. And given that they don't bother separating Pokémon Adventures Red and Game Red, you can tell the motive behind. The Pokémon fandom, in their awkward edgy teenager years, wanted to run away from Ash. They think he's too childish and too much of a loser to root for and follow, so they turned to a character that doesn't speak for himself. A character who has a blank canvas perfect for the fandom to impose their ideal trainer to be.

I have no doubt that GameFreak wanted Red to be one of the strongest, if not these strongest Pokémon trainer, because he represents the player and the player always had the potential of becoming the strongest Pokémon trainer in the game. But the fandom did so much to separate Red from Ash it always felt like something was off about Red's badass reputation. Like, no one knows how Red become the strongest. It's just assumed that he always was. And every attempt at retelling his story by the fans never gave him any true struggles. As if they cannot fathom Red to be anything other than this legend they made up in their heads.

This is where Ash comes in. He is the human side of Red. And starting with XY, the showrunners did everything to link Ash back to Red even though by this point, the separation of the two characters has become quite permanent as Red is now defined by his stoic nature and silence.

And maybe that's why Red broke his silence and wishes to face Ash in battle in Pokémon Masters.

And that's thing about Ash. He always brings out the best in people. Even rivals like Gary and Paul gradually softened up because of their interactions with Ash. No wonder why Serena loves him.
Put it perfectly
I do love how people have finally come around to loving Ash in the casual fandom as well though, although kinda pissed it took him also being strong to be seen in that pedestal. But whatever
My point is even if Red had the highest level mons then, it doesn't really indicate anything to me because again, he's never been implied to be superior over any champion in meta or lore wise, coz as you mentioned he's tied with Cynthia

Meanwhile Ash explicitly beats Cynthia and Leon as well as other champions, and is on the top as world champion. In the anime it's defined Ash is at a level where he's above champions. Red isn't defined as that
Therefore stating Red is any way better than Ash is just not logical
 

Dark_King25

Shillmon Defender
he's never been implied to be superior over any champion in meta or lore wise, coz as you mentioned he's tied with Cynthia
It is implied by Flint that red is stronger than anyone
In the anime it's defined Ash is at a level where he's above champions. Red isn't defined as that

If blue who always lose to red gave Leon a close fight without using a sync move imagine what red would've done

tbh for the Red thing, I still prefer Spe Red over Ash, but yeah Origins Red was eh. Either way the real comparison in Spe is Black, who is literally just a better written Ash
Pokespe red is cool but I was just never a fan of his design I really wished he had Charizard instead of venusaur. To me I think masters red is the definitive red he is a silent badass that has shown a lot of personality as well.

Considering Epicocity's negation of the lack of actual development during Serena's first year during a discussion in another thread, I wouldn't take them seriously for that argument.
Maybe he just forgotten about it there is no such thing as a flawless debater you know
 
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vondecayle

Well-Known Member
If you think she looked Mary-Sueish on those performances it's because you cannot recognize what the job actually entails.
Some people think that the only way for characters to struggle is if they have “rivals” to push them forward as if oneself can't sabotage their own journey and learn from their own mistakes.
 

Dark_King25

Shillmon Defender
Yes, I think this was great. Society likes to be very harsh on people who are indesivive about the things they want to do in life and I thinks it’s important to note that you don’t need to have everything figured out by the age of 10 (in the context of the show), and that sometimes it takes time to figure things out, even then life throws curveballs and things may change in the future.
I really agree with this im a college graduate and yet even I still don't know what to do this is why I'm back in my in my 2016 Serena/Amourshipping phase i just relate to her character so much
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
I love Black as well, he's my favourite PokeSpe character, but i feel his ending is really weak. He didn't get much of a cathartic ending in BW which felt intentional at the time but then....he was just there in B2W2 with nothing. I really don't like his ending
Tbh I put that on BW2 being a weak arc in general, you could feel that by the end Kusaka was only doing it out of obligation (same for ORAS, but like, for the whole arc rather than just the later parts). His return scene was great at least
 
H71 Latias
Ash might be catching a Latias
Hmm…
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
RIP chances of Hisui Arc
I feel Kusaka really hasn't wanted to do more than 1 arc per gen lately, especially with the games becoming serialized. You could feel he got tired with BW2, he had to jump through a million hoops to include the ORAS changes, and even SM lost a ton of steam once USUM stuff started
 

SunGodNika1997

You can call me Tanner.
maaan we are so dry of amour content right now that most of the posts of this thread as of now are off-topic.
Not gonna lie, never posted on this thread, but will lurk every now and then when there are new posts, and I just end up utterly confused most of the time.
 

Dark_King25

Shillmon Defender
Not gonna lie, never posted on this thread, but will lurk every now and then when there are new posts, and I just end up utterly confused most of the time.
Yeah and the fact that almost half of the active posters here are antis it's kinda sad tbh really hope we get amour content in the last remaining episodes
 

SunGodNika1997

You can call me Tanner.
Yeah and the fact that almost half of the active posters here are antis it's kinda sad tbh really hope we get amour content in the last remaining episodes
Yeah, I'm not even primarily an Amour Shipper, but I do feel bad for y'all. Hope there's at least some form of closure with that dynamic one way or another, as it would be kind of lame if they just ignored it altogether.
 
I’m not an anti
We’re getting to the point where this is Ashs endgame and while the Pokeshipping speculation is at an all time high we are so dry of content that we start looking at the TV tropes Amour page to start getting back on topic
 

Dark_King25

Shillmon Defender
Yeah, I'm not even primarily an Amour Shipper, but I do feel bad for y'all.
Yeah pokeshipping and some of its fans are far from my thing but it's really nice that there is still mutual respect from the other side. Happy for some pokeshipping fans out there. we are basically in the same state as pokeshipping back in the XY days.

would be kind of lame if they just ignored it altogether
Yeah I know as much as I rag on some of the overzealous shippers I too would really be salty if amour didn't get a proper conclusion
 
Yeah pokeshipping and some of its fans are far from my thing but it's really nice that there is still mutual respect for the other side. Happy for some pokeshipping fans out there. we are basically in the same state as pokeshipping back in the XY days.


Yeah I know as much as I rag on some of the overzealous shippers I too would really be salty if amour didn't get a proper conclusion
It’s basically a role reversal
And if this ends up being a lie
interview with Yajima:
*The kiss scene is indeed meant to be Serena kissing Satoshi, and his reaction to it is surprised awe, any ambiguity the scene has is so they could get it on TV in the first place.
*Likewise, you're meant to hope and assume the two of them are going to become a couple later.
*The idea to have a romance subplot apparently came from producer Shukichi Kanda, who came up with the idea of portraying things through a female lead's admiration for Satoshi, which then led to the suggestion that they'd have a flashback to a childhood meeting with romantic implications.
Then I would be pissed
 

SunGodNika1997

You can call me Tanner.
Yeah pokeshipping and some of its fans are far from my thing but it's really nice that there is still mutual respect from the other side. Happy for some pokeshipping fans out there. we are basically in the same state as pokeshipping back in the XY days.


Yeah I know as much as I rag on some of the overzealous shippers I too would really be salty if amour didn't get a proper conclusion
Yeah, shipping wars are kinda dumb. Obviously, I have my leanings, but shipping's just supposed to be clean fun at the end of the day. Still, can't help but be sympathetic that y'all got the closest thing to a "canon" love interest, and barely anything's been done with it since.

I don't think any ship is really going to be "canon" by the end, but there's really no telling what they are or aren't going to hint by the end.
 
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