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An Attempt at Stall (OU)

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by d0nut, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. d0nut

    d0nut _

    I’ve never really played stall for an extended period of time. I used to find it boring though it seems to be a bit more entertaining in this gen for some reason. I felt like creating a stall team of my own and since I haven’t played much at all in the WiFi ladder I decided to make a team suited to that metagame, that way I wouldn’t have to worry about running a Shed Shell for Shandera. When it comes to creating stall teams I’m no expert so I’m posting it here to see if I can get any advice on what I could do to improve it. It has been decent so far, but I still feel it can do better.

    Nattorei @ Leftovers
    Ability: Steel Thorns
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Sp.Def
    Nature: Sassy (+Sp.Def, -Spe)
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    Nattorei was one of the first things which I wanted to use when I decided to make a stall team. It has one of the best defensive typings in the game, solid mixed defenses, and an excellent support movepool. He sets up most of my entry hazards and checks things such as Dragons and Waters, while also doing quite a bit of damage with his STAB moves. The only issue I have had with him is choosing which moves to use. I can’t seem to find room for anything else to use hazards so I’m stuck with SR and Spikes, therefore I can’t use Leech Seed, though Thunder Wave would also be nice, maybe over Gyro Ball. Power Whip is a great STAB move which eliminates Water types among other things. Gyro Ball is also a great move for taking down faster foes such as Latios. Stealth Rocks are usually set up first since they tend to be more useful than Spikes, except in certain situations.

    Burungeru @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Def
    Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
    - Boiling Water
    - Shadow Ball
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Burungeru was another thing which immediately came to mind when making this team. Its’ typing compliments Nattorei’s perfectly, plus it can Spin Block when necessary to prevent his hazards from going to waste. With reliable recovery and great Special Defense, it can be very tough to take down, especially if it manages to Burn something with Boiling Water. Shadow Ball is a good secondary STAB, though I have heard that Evil Eye is useful since Burungeru usually uses status on its foes before attacking, but I find the Sp.Def drop from Shadow Ball useful at times too. Toxic ruins other walls which try to get in its way, as well as allowing it or another team member to stall something quickly.

    Chansey @ Evolution Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.Def
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Wish is even more awesome this gen than it was in the past. Healing any one of my team members to full HP in one go is too good to pass up so I decided to take either Blissey or Chansey on my team. After trying Evo-Stone Chansey for a short time I decided that it would probably be more useful than Blissey in the long run, though I admit Leftovers would be nice at times. Anyway, in most situations this thing simply will not die. Between Wish and Protect it has a reliable way to recover, plus it is helpful for stalling foes hit by Toxic. Seismic Toss is sadly Chansey’s only way to deal any significant damage outside of Toxic stalling, therefore it does have trouble with Ghosts. Fortunately since I usually don’t use this team on DW I don’t have to worry about Shandera very often, and Burungeru is the only other Ghost I see on a regular basis.

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -Sp.Atk)
    - Earthquake
    - Aerial Ace
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Gliscor can be either impossible to take down, or dead weight depending on what kind of team he faces. He can take out Doryuuzu, Breloom, and several other threats without many problems, but against Rain teams he tends to be the first thing I sacrifice unless there is something specific I need him to deal with. Earthquake is for obligatory STAB, while Aerial Ace lets me deal with Breloom who is otherwise a nuisance to the team. Toxic is mainly for Flyers/Levitators, and with Protect he can stall very well while gaining good amounts of HP every turn. I’ve found Gliscor to be very useful, though I’ve been seeing plenty more Zuruzukin around among other things which give the team trouble so I might end up having to replace him to deal with them, I would prefer that he stay though.

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Sp.Def
    Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
    - Boiling Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Tentacruel is my choice for setting up Toxic Spikes, mainly because he can use Rapid Spin also, and I would just rather use him as opposed to Forretress. If anyone thinks Forry would be more helpful than Tentacruel, feel free to convince me otherwise. He can remove Toxic Spikes that opponents set up simply by switching in, plus he can Burn foes which are immune to his Toxic Spikes by using Boiling Water. Ice Beam has been helpful as his final move so far since it hits Dragons and Flyers harder than most other things on the team. The only things I would consider replacing him with are other things which get Toxic Spikes since they are very important to the team. I’ve considered Forretress but I can’t think of any reason why that would help me more than Tentacruel, plus Forry just seems to similar to Nattorei.

    Sazandora @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn

    Sazandora serves as a revenge killer, as well as a check to several things which give the rest of the team trouble. Draco Meteor is very difficult to switch into for people without Steel types or Chansey/Blissey/TTar. Dark Pulse is a secondary STAB which deals with Rankurusu, Burungeru, and other Ghosts or Psychics which can be difficult for the rest of the team. Fire Blast allows me to deal with most Nattorei in one shot, and finally U-turn is a great scouting move which sets it apart from Latios, and it puts me at an advantage against predicted switches. I mainly wanted something here to revenge kill and deal with Rankurusu, which could be difficult for the rest of the team to defeat due to Magic Guard. He has done a decent job at doing so, but I also need a way to deal with Zuruzukin now as well since I had to get rid of Roopushin.

    So far the team has had problems with Bulk Up Zuruzukin. I originally had a Roopushin on the team over Sazandora to deal with it, but I had problems with Rankurusu before so I’m trying to figure out a way to deal with both of them without leaving myself weak against anything else in the process. If anyone has any ideas on how to help the team let me know.
  2. Magikarp Owns

    Magikarp Owns Borutorosu > Zapdos

    This team seems to be pretty nice! I mean, Nuttre / Pringles is a very annoying defensive core, especially when Chansey is mixed in. (Damn you evolution stone.)

    One thing that might be a bit troublesome is Kingdra / Heatran offensive cores. Heatran can come in on Nattorei and can spam Fire Blast and maybe substitute to bring it down. Kingdra comes in on Burungeru and gets off some Dragon Dances and possibly substitutes if it has it as well, and if it got a good amount of Dragon Dances, it could cause havoc. Sazandora might be able to kill Kingdra if not behind a sub, but can be killed with Outrage if Kingdra does have a sub up. Kingdra could possibly do some damage to the rest of the team if it was played well, but with the number of walls you have, you could probably take it down once boosted (Not without taking some damage though).

    You might be wondering why I'm mentioning a situation as specific as this, but it's because of the presence of weather this gen. I've played this core atleast twice already, and I know it's used to take advantage of Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetales. Not to mention it can effectively defeat Nuttre / Pringles cores if they have the right sets and know how to play. Your hazards really limit the ability of the to to switch around too much, but Kingdra and Heatran might be able to take out Nuttre and Pringles quick.

    I can't really suggest anything right now, because I have to go, but I will try to help once I get back on. (If you even need help, you might have this problem solved. =P)
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  3. d0nut

    d0nut _

    Heatran and Kingdra are rarely used together actually considering Kingdra is almost never used outside of Rain, and if Rain is used then Heatran is pretty worthless in the Rain. Even if you use Ninetails and Politoed to change the weather for Heatran or Kingdra then you have to worry about switching the weather before bringing in Kingdra/Heatran each time which doesn't make a very effective core considering it uses 4 team slots and presents many common weaknesses. Even then, I fail to see how either of them are an issue. If Heatran forces Nattorei out then so be it; I have three viable switch-ins between Burungeru, Tentacruel, and Chansey. Kingdra is also walled by Natty, plus it is screwed by Burungeru or Chansey if it gets hit by Toxic. Weather actually hasn't been too much of an issue for this team, (bar Rain stall because Vaporeon can be tough to take down at times,) so I'm mainly concerned about other things like Zuruzukin at this point. I'm considering running Specs Focus Blast on Sazandora for him, though losing Scarf means I would lose my revenge killer. The more I think about it the more I seem to like T-Wave over Gyro Ball on Natty as well...
  4. calze6

    calze6 Reclaiming da ladder

    As a lead, perhaps consider a forretress over nattorei as it can abuse custap sturdy and seems to outclass it in the way you are using it.

    Why have you got three users of toxic and toxic spikes? Consider removing toxic on chansey for heal bell which can prevent nasty status to your team.

    Why don't you give gliscor roost and taunt over toxic and protect? Maybe not taunt over protect is probs your choice.
  5. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    I would be a little concerned about Terrakion if I was you. It deals 97% minimum to Gliscor after a Swords Dance and takes just 51.9% - 61.1% from your Sazandora's Draco Meteor if it is protected by Sandstorm. If Sazandora drops to around 50% its dead from Quick Attack after Stealth Rocks.

    You are fairly Rankurusu weak despite Sazandora. If you switch in on a Calm Mind your Dark Pulse is doing just 45.8% - 54.2%. If it Calm Minds again it may out stall you barring flinch hax, but it may also OHKO you with Life Orb HP Fighting after rocks as nothing on your team can quickly kill a +1 50% Cell.

    I'd be wary about Doryuuzu. He OHKOs pretty much everything after a Swords Dance and 2HKOs Gliscor with +2 Rock Slide. If it has Life Orb instead of Balloon and you get flinched nothing will survive a hit.

    Cloyster is a total loss if it gets a Shell break. Everything is OHKOed after Stealth Rocks and if its Jolly it will even outrun Sazandora.

    Like you said you're kind of weak to that weird pants lizard.

    Hmm.. as for changes maybe drop Nattorei for a Physically Defensive Skarmory. You have absolutely no phasing which is terrible for stall. Physical Skarmory will stop Doryuuzu cold and does decently against pretty much everything Nattorei covers except something like Specs Latios who is UU and covered well enough by Blissey.

    You could drop Sazandora and Gliscor for Specially Defensive Hippowdon and Scarf Jirachi. Sandstorm is great for stall as leading with Hippo breaks Sashes and blah blah typical Hippo stuff. It can also lay rocks, reducing the pressure on Skarmory. Specially Defensive Hippowdon can shrug off Draco Meteors and laugh at Tyranitar's Ice Beam. Two phasers isn't really much but its better than nothing. Scarf Jirachi is a slightly better check for stuff due to Iron Head really pairing well with Toxic Spikes and Sandstorm. In a pinch it may draw out wins against something like a Urugamosu if Blissey is gone, etc.

    Jirachi also is a hard stop for Terrakion and when it comes down to a last poke Rankurusu a swift Trick will end that threat. Jirachi will survive a +2 LO Shell Blade from Cloyster all the time. You even outrun the Adamant ones. I ran Trick / Iron Head / Thunderbolt / Wish with a Jolly nature and 252 HP / 252 Speed. Even when Jolly Thunderbolt OHKOs Gyarados after rocks and Cloyster without.

    Good luck.

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