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An Electrifying Rage! (913)

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
You know there's something wrong when a Legendary can't handle TRio.

Except they were using science to incapacitate Zapdos. When the electrical/plasma "ropes" hit Zapdos, Zapdos was in noticeable pain.

What other people are also ignoring is that it's not like Zapdos had the most amount of time.

It's not like Ash stood there for a couple of hours watching Zapdos struggle and went like "Oh it's not going to get out, I guess I should help it out"

Ash helped out Zapdos immediately after it was captured so again not sure how it portrays Zapdos being weak.

What people are also ignoring is that there was another character that did catch Moltres and Zapdos.

Also people are ignoring the trainers who have legendary Pokemon on their team.

Look if Pokemon like Garchomp could believably get caught off guard by team rocket in the fashion depicted here, then so can Zapdos.

I also believe the same could happen to Nurse Joy's Latias as well as Tobias's Darkrai.

When you're caught off guard it's hard to recover from that.

Hell Team Magma or Team Aqua managed to catch the uber legendaries of Kyogre/Groudon (one of them at least).

Just because Team Rocket are weak, doesn't mean they are 100% stupid, Meowth or James (doubt it with Jessie) seem to be very close on par to being technologically intelligent as Clemont, true Clemont I can see being smarter, but Meowth/James are no slouches when it comes to technology.

Whenever they have use technology properly they have always captured the Pokemon of the day. It's only through other plot purposes that they fail.

Even if it was from the help of Dr. Zager, The Team Rocket captured Landorus, Thundurus, and Tornadus in Best Wishes.

Given the chance, Team Rocket can contain legendary Pokemon, I think people are giving too much credit to the legendaries, they can't overpower certain technologies, except maybe the super uber Pokemon legendaries, that are well stronger than the lesser legendary.

Pokemon like Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres are lesser legendaries than Pokemon like Darkrai. And also if there's obvious multiple of the same species, they are going to have varying strengths.

I'm pretty sure the "mother" Lugia near Ogi Isle was weaker than the 2nd movie Lugia.

I never meant the beginning.

I meant the final moments. A Boomburst and a HJK were enough to weaken this Zapdos enough for TRio to give it trouble.

As I keep saying, obviously a powerful direct attack would propel Zapdos through a precipice would make it incapacitate it long enough for Team Rocket to get to them.

What people still fail to realize, that Zapdos had literally no time to recover. It's not like Team Rocket waited a few minutes to capture Zapdos, they took less than a minute they took even less than half a minute.
 
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Janovy

Banned
I meant the final moments. A Boomburst and a HJK were enough to weaken this Zapdos enough for TRio to give it trouble.
The only reason Team Rocket managed to capture Zapdos was because it fell after being hit by Boomburst.

Believe it or not, even legendary Pokemon can be caught off-guard.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Overall I think this episode was enjoyable. The atmosphere did not feel like a typical Pokémon episode, which I appreciated. Zapdos was weirdly animated at certain points but I don't know if that's just because its design is just less detailed and complicated than Articuno or Moltres.

Noivern now has Boomburst, Acrobatics, Tackle, and Supersonic. I think it is obvious that Noivern will learn two moves in the future as the first two are basically better versions of the latter two.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
The only reason Team Rocket managed to capture Zapdos was because it fell after being hit by Boomburst.

Believe it or not, even legendary Pokemon can be caught off-guard.

And this is why I hate how they depicted Moltres in that episode.

I get that Talonflame was weakened, but they still overpowered Moltres to such a degree that obviously Zapdos would be seen in a more negative light just because of the incidents that took place in this episode.

I freaking knew they overpowered Moltres too, and everyone is taking it as gospel.

Zapdos literally had nothing to work with to win. And it basically knocked out Talonflame and Hawlucha.

Talonflame surviving the one charge beam makes sense over Hawlucha taking on thunderbolt. Charge beam is a weaker move but obviously if Zapdos were to fight Noivern on equal ground to the finish, obviously Zapdos would win.
 

Janovy

Banned
And this is why I hate how they depicted Moltres in that episode.

I get that Talonflame was weakened, but they still overpowered Moltres to such a degree that obviously Zapdos would be seen in a more negative light just because of the incidents that took place in this episode.

I freaking knew they overpowered Moltres too, and everyone is taking it as gospel.

Zapdos literally had nothing to work with to win. And it basically knocked out Talonflame and Hawlucha.

Talonflame surviving the one charge beam makes sense over Hawlucha taking on thunderbolt. Charge beam is a weaker move but obviously if Zapdos were to fight Noivern on equal ground to the finish, obviously Zapdos would win.
TBH, Moltres had the advantage of the environment.

For example, I doubt Hawlucha would have done as well without the rocks, it would have no support and High Jump Kick wouldn't likely be as successful.

Similarly, the rocks were crucial in Ash's strategy and Noivern managing to escape Zapdos.

Whereas with Moltres there was simply this huge volcano filled with lava so nobody could even approach it properly.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
TBH, Moltres had the advantage of the environment.

For example, I doubt Hawlucha would have done as well without the rocks, it would have no support and High Jump Kick wouldn't likely be as successful.

Similarly, the rocks were crucial in Ash's strategy and Noivern managing to escape Zapdos.

Whereas with Moltres there was simply this huge volcano filled with lava so nobody could even approach it properly.

I guess. But I meant that Moltres appeared untouchable, even Brave Bird didn't do any noticeable damage to Moltres except maybe causing it to move a foot over in the air.

Whereas Zapdos managed to get hit by High Jump Kick and Boomburst. Maybe if Moltres took noticeable damage from Brave Bird and appeared to have been hit with brave bird, before knocking out Talonflame, maybe Zapdos's portrayal would be more understandable for those complaining about it.

I do get Zapdos, and Moltres, but I do think they made Moltres appear a little too strong in comparison to Zapdos, maybe Moltres did have the power of lava to increase its strength, while Zapdos was out of its element here in this episode, but even so, Moltres did appear more powerful. I think that's undeniable because Zapdos was more affected by the group's moves than Moltres appeared to be. Granted Zapdos probably took more damage slamming into the precipice than either Boomburst/HJK did do it, and Zapdos may have only lost maybe 5 health, but it still noticeably was affected by those moves, unlike Moltres, who only moved a little bit in the air from brave bird rather than flinch like Zapdos did.

That was the mistake in the Moltres episode, in comparison to this. Moltres should've at least took noticeable damage or was as affected as Zapdos was, so that Zapdos's portrayal in this episode would make more sense.

But yes, for me, all I need is that Zapdos was out of its element, while Moltres had the volcano and that they are entirely two different Pokemon to accept that everything that happened to Zapdos was completely understandable and acceptable, and if Zapdos had TIME and OPPORTUNITY it would've beaten Noivern. But I can still see that Zapdos was portrayed 2-5% weaker than Moltres was, not that it would matter to me, but it obviously seems to bother other people who actually thought Zapdos was going to be portrayed EXACTLY like Moltres was.
 
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DS0308

<--- Actually me
Does anyone here watch the episodes of this anime? It's like people are discussing something they haven't seen with their own eyes or they're blatantly ignoring facts.

Sometimes I think the same thing.

Some people seem to be very blatantly ignoring the fact that it was Ash who came up with the strategy to take on Zapdos. The point that his Pokemon don't have 20 years/6 regions experience is completely irrelevant. A weak Pokemon can be made stronger by a smart Trainer, and yes, Ash isn't the Einstein of the Pokemon world, but he DOES have that 20 years/6 regions experience. So it's more than fair for him to be able to pull this off. Not to mention saying that about his Pokemon implies he should only be catching weak Pokemon/ones that were only just born, which is clearly non-sensical especially in light of stuff like Hawlucha being the Forest Champion. (This is more in a general sense) I've already discussed before about natural Pokemon strength so I don't feel like I need to again (because it's probably delving into off-topic land).
 

Yappy

Only appears occasionally
I still find it funny that that the Nutrey mecha was mistaken for a real one by some people before this episode aired (they can't float).

Anyway, I uh.... I don't mind Onbat evolving so fast, but at the same time it bothers me because Noibat was a baby and all other Pokémon hatched from eggs took forever to evolve. But the main reason why it bothers me is this follows Best Wishes brilliant portrayal of baby and child Pokémon, it was more realistic (Pokémon just hatched from eggs couldn't do a thing against trained and adult Pokémon because they were too young and inexperienced).

But with Onbat, they went back to the series before Best Wishes unrealistic way handling of hatched Pokémon; were they are already strong enough to take on adult Pokémon, with the added bit of Onbat growing-up way too quickly.
 

AuraKshatriya

Well-Known Member
I still find it funny that that the Nutrey mecha was mistaken for a real one by some people before this episode aired (they can't float).

Anyway, I uh.... I don't mind Onbat evolving so fast, but at the same time it bothers me because Noibat was a baby and all other Pokémon hatched from eggs took forever to evolve. But the main reason why it bothers me is this follows Best Wishes brilliant portrayal of baby and child Pokémon, it was more realistic (Pokémon just hatched from eggs couldn't do a thing against trained and adult Pokémon because they were too young and inexperienced).

But with Onbat, they went back to the series before Best Wishes unrealistic way handling of hatched Pokémon; were they are already strong enough to take on adult Pokémon, with the added bit of Onbat growing-up way too quickly.

Onbat was never really portrayed as being strong enough to take on "adult Pokemon". The first hit it ever landed was against Team Flare's Drapion, and that really only amounted to knocking it back a bit; there was no lasting damage. Against Breloom, it was largely on the receiving end up multiple attacks, and the only reason is took so many is because it resisted most of them by virtue of its typing (Flying/Dragon resists Grass/Fighting).

Best Wishes' portrayal of a baby Pokemon is a bit of a mixed bag in my opinion. Yes, they accurately displayed the initial helplessness of a newly-hatched Pokemon (with Zuruggu being pummelled by most opponents). But it could be argued Zuruggu was a missed opportunity. Unlike Onbat, it did get a plethora of battling opportunities, but it was shackled to its first evolutionary stage, and so there wasn't really any climax to all that battle experience. Baby Pokemon are so compelling because the progress they make can be very explicit, since they effectively begin with no strength. Evolving into a Zuruzukin would've been great, and yet it never happened. So we ended up with a Pokemon that was a regular battler for Satoshi, yet often lost simply due to the fact it was overpowered (a problem inherent of its evolutionary stage). Were it to have evolved, battles like the one against Nakegi in the Donamite Tournament would've been way more compelling. Instead they tried to give us a "cute" effort of Zuruggu staring it down, and constantly failing to do any real damage. Ideally if it returns for the Kalos League we'll get to see it evolve, a la Gomazou (Phanpy) and Magmarashi (Quilava).

---

Regarding Zapdos' portrayal, while there certainly is a ceiling to how much people should fixate on complaining about it, I'm actually in agreement with the people who were somewhat disappointed.
Outside of the second movie, the Legendary Birds have traditionally been treated as "fairly strong Pokemon", and little more. The best showing we had was Nolan's Freezer (Articuno), and even then it didn't so much demonstrate sheer power as resilience to injury and impressive flying prowess. Moltres' portrayal in XY changed all that. Finally, it was portrayed as an incredibly fearsome Legendary Pokemon; it emerged directly from a volcano in a huge eruption, its body was so hot Water-type attacks simply evaporated, and its Flamethrower was large enough to not only blow back any opposing Fire-type moves, but completely engulf all the main characters plus Trevor and their Pokemon, had it connected. Not to mention taking a single (resisted) Flamethrower left Hinoyakoma exhausted, and even after evolving (which seemed to have undone much of the damage sustained), a single (again, resisted) Fire Blast not only OHKO'd Fiarrow, but left visible scorch marks all over its body. While Fiarrow largely outsped it, and Brave Bird did knock it back, there was no apparent lasting damage or fatigue on Moltres' part.

By stark contrast, Zapdos' only truly impressive feats were that initial Thunderbolt that fried an entire stone pillar, and changing the ambient weather. When struck by a (resisted) High Jump Kick from Luchabull, it went flying a fair distance. While I do feel Luchabull's strength is sufficient to send Zapdos flying, at least, doing so with a resisted move (and no direct foothold, since it had to turn around after initially missing) when a Brave Bird only slightly knocked back Moltres is a little jarring. However, what was a bit more unusual was that Fiarrow managed to take a direct (Super-Effective) hit from Thunderbolt and shake it off relatively quickly, despite the aforementioned (resisted) Fire Blast immediately KOing it. It would've also been more impressive of Zapdos' attacks immediately paralyzed Fiarrow after connecting, to mirror the scorching/burning effect of Moltres' flames. Furthermore, even if Onvern managed to knock it back with Boomburst (and despite the fact I do like the strong showing of strength for Onvern), Zapdos still should've been able to fry Team Rocket's machine and overpower them. If anything, I think they did a disservice to displaying its destructive abilities, in light of the great treatment Moltres got. The issues with how it took attacks can be somewhat forgiven by the fact that the team is stronger now than back with Moltres, and it took multiple hits (High Jump Kick+Boomburst).

I liked the episode and love how powerful Onvern is, don't get me wrong. But doing its adversary's power justice would've only further improved Onvern's showing as well.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
While I do feel Luchabull's strength is sufficient to send Zapdos flying, at least, doing so with a resisted move (and no direct foothold, since it had to turn around after initially missing) when a Brave Bird only slightly knocked back Moltres is a little jarring.
I disagree because Zapdos obviously took no damage from the attack except unregistable damage. I say this because I call back to my argument earlier, of MANY fictional characters who were strong enough to knock their opponent through many buildings, or even mountains, and yet because of how strong their opponents were they didn't take any damage.

I'm pretty sure even resisted the physical force hi jump kick provides isn't cheapened due to resistance, only the damage received.

However, what was a bit more unusual was that Fiarrow managed to take a direct (Super-Effective) hit from Thunderbolt and shake it off relatively quickly, despite the aforementioned (resisted) Fire Blast immediately KOing it.
Except it was charge beam, I very much doubt thunderbolt can be fired from both Zapdos's mouth and body.

As for fire blast, it was Moltres's strongest move, so of course it would do that much damage, lest we forget that Fletchinder basically took two flamethrowers before fully evolving, so it was weakened to begin with.


It would've also been more impressive of Zapdos' attacks immediately paralyzed Fiarrow after connecting, to mirror the scorching/burning effect of Moltres' flames.
Well Charge beam doesn't paralyze opponents. And I can't imagine an electric attack paralyzing someone when the move doesn't paralyze them.

Furthermore, even if Onvern managed to knock it back with Boomburst (and despite the fact I do like the strong showing of strength for Onvern), Zapdos still should've been able to fry Team Rocket's machine and overpower them. If anything, I think they did a disservice to displaying its destructive abilities, in light of the great treatment Moltres got.


1. Team Rocket were ill equipped to capture Moltres, honestly its to the point where "Why the hell did you even bother trying"

2. They specifically this time were equipped to capture Zapdos, except as shown Zapdos was clearly shown, they couldn't even begin to capture it because of Zapdos's speed and strength that caused them to cower. If given the chance to Team Rocket probably could very easily catch Zapdos, just like they did with their electrical devices. It makes no sense for technology that is likely able to capture legendary Pokemon would fail. Team Rocket can fail, but their technology only fails when an unforeseen circumstance occurs, like evolution or misjudging. The thing is and I'm going to be blunt, Team Rocket would have to be Stupid AF (and I would prefer to use another word that starts with 'r' if they were going to capture a Zapdos with illegitimate technology).

3. Furthermore as said in my previous post, sure Moltres appeared slightly stronger. The fact it had a volcano whereas Zapdos had nothing really makes the difference. If Moltres was away from it's equivalent of a yellow sun for superman, I very much doubt Moltres would have been as portrayed as strong.

After all Moltres restores itself by bathing or resting in an active volcano.

But again Zapdos had nothing like that considering it summoned the thunderclouds itself, and I doubt Zapdos is infinitely powerful like that to summon its own infinite power source.

Given that Ash's Charizard was able to defeat an Articuno, and in no way do I believe Articuno's power was cheapened just so Charizard could win.

I think Zapdos's strength is properly displayed in this episode. Given that it's technically supposed to be weaker than Pokemon like Garchomp, Goodra, and Mythical Pokemon like Darkrai. Or even legendaries like Heatran, Heatran theoretically should be stronger than Moltres and yet is owned by a random trainer in the Sinnoh league. Pokemon like Darkrai, Latios, and Latias, all stronger Pokemon are owned by trainers. And similar Pokemon like Regirock/Registeel/Regice are also owned by an actual trainer.

Legendary =/= unbeatable it's just a powerful wild Pokemon with no evolutionary relatives and provides some kind of old story passed on through time. That's it, even some trained Pokemon should be equal in strength to some legendaries, and of course some legendaries could be strong.

But think of Cynthia here. I'm pretty sure her Garchomp could've easily knocked out Zapdos. Considering she is THAT strong.

If Zapdos was even allowed to have an advantage rather than always been at a disadvantage, it would've destroyed Team Rocket as well as Noivern. It just never had the chance. Zapdos had less time to recover when Noivern Boombursted it in comparison to the High Jump Kick, especially since Zapdos slammed into a precipice because of boomburst. Unlike with the High Jump kick it just flew backwards. Pretty sure even if Zapdos took little to no damage from the boomburst, pretty sure it slamming into a a giant rock pillar backwards would require a little more time to recover than just being kneed away from High Jump Kick.
 

Lisia

Well-Known Member
These walls of essays, smh.
I enjoyed the episode but Noivern's evolution felt really forced. I thought Boomburst would be cooler. It literally looks the same as Supersonic. Only bigger waves and do damages. Welp. I laughed when Noivern grab Lucha by his feet, lawl.

And dear god, I can't with how people are still arguing about saving/similarities in Talonflame's and Noivern's. Accept and move on, hun.
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
Kind of late but the Cotd seemed kind of pointless here and despite Clemont's excitement regarding Zapdos, even he wasn't very involved here sadly. I did like Hawlucha's fist bump with Noivern however, which was a cool moment. :D
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
This is a really good episode. This and the Moltres would be my favorites since two of Ash's Pokemon evolve in a episode with a legendary pokemon.
 

Pokegirl0102

Well-Known Member
While i am glad that all of Ash's pokemon are evolving, i think its sucks that noibat didnt get to win a single battle before evolving, just like Fletchling
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
The intro showed this to be a promising Clemont episode...then it immediately veers off into an Ash & Noibat episode for the next 15 minutes, separating them all from the others who get cursed into the same role they had in the Hoopa movie.

...Yup. That Zapdos was hella-ella weak. People over emphasizing Boomburst's power when in truth it just looked like a wind beam blast that didn't cause that much destruction. I can't believe the writers didn't just make it a bigger deal.

What a mofo, Noivern. Eating the berries of that tree for yourself... Is it weird there weren't any other Pokemon around that village?
 

DS0308

<--- Actually me
I'm actually in tears that they kept Zapdos' cry from the Japanese version, AAAAAHHHHHHH!!! I can't stop laughing! I'm also quite happy with them keeping Noivern's too as I really like it. The music was a little weird for the evolution though, almost made it seem like a non-event (like what happened with Fletchling...).

Not a bad episode from the dub, though.
 
This was an ok episode. It was nice to see Ash's Noibat evolve as well as seeing Zapdos again.
 

roguedr4g0nite

WishiWashi Trainer
That cave scene though. That was probably the most mature thing I've ever heard from Ash. That speech between him and Team Rocket sounded like it was coming from a much older Ash ^-^
Ok this episode was great 10/10.
 
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