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Analysis of the "Genwunner/Twoer" perspective

PoDiRancher

Well-Known Member
The first two generations are my favorite, but it's not always easy to pinpoint why, so this is a topic for discussion on that. Input from people who favorite these gens is most valued but any perspectives on what they did well or best by anyone is welcome. I'll start by listing a few things:

1. Rivals. I think the first two rivals, Blue and Silver, were the best. I don't want nor like friendly rivals who thank you for beating them, I don't look forward to training to crush them the next time they show up. I think later games fail spectacularly at crafting a compelling rival. This doesn't mean Blue or Silver are perfect but I find them to be immensely superior as rivals. Between the two I think Blue is more fun to look forward to beating but Silver retains enough of that element while also being more of a real character with an arc.

2. Art style. This isn't just about the characters designs per se, but the art style itself (mostly pertaining to extraneous aspects of the games, like the box art, manual, etc). It's all a lot more sharp and tough looking, and this extends to the trainers. Sugimori's watercolor-type illustrations really look nice and unique too, everything looks a little "rough" (not sloppy) and that's appealing in its own way.

3. Themes/story. The simplicity of the first two generations with their more relatively (keyword: relatively) grounded world was more interesting. Flooding the earth, or opening portals and stuff, not really stakes I can care about at all. Mafia, Frankenstein-esque Pokemon science experiments (Mew/Mewtwo), revenge? Easy enough to follow concepts without being too ridiculous.

4. Mystery. The first game really nailed this. Part of it is timing, since it was the mid-90's not everyone had access to the Internet and even then most of what you'd find is different than what you'd find today. The Internet was more like a rumor mill than the encyclopedic way it is now, so instead of just Googling something like Mew being under a truck to see if it's real as would happen today, you'd more than likely just come across more fuel to the fire. Not just stuff like that though, the implicit lore is more prominent in early games. Is Ditto a failed Mew clone? Is there a link between Kagaskhan & Cubone, or Clefable/Gengar? Subtle world building; what war was Surge talking about, where are the real animals at which people mention/refer to, and what connection do Pokemon have to space (like Clefairy/Jigglypuff evolving from Moon Stones which fell upon Mt. Moon)? What's PokeRus, where did it come from, and what does it do (rhetorically speaking; we know now but it wasn't as clear at the time)?

5. Music. This one is even more subjective than the rest, I think. In my opinion the music perfectly matches everything in the first two generations, from the epic opening to the safe, cute, nostalgic little home town theme, to the exciting battle themes (I think Champion's Theme is the best battle theme in the series). I've played most Pokemon generations and after generation 3 I can't think of a single theme. The music is never bad but not particularly memorable to me.

So anyway, these are just my views, and I'm not trying to put down the more recent entries in the series. I think they all do good things and are generally fun enough, and advance the series in meaningful way (like the important physical/special attack split, and remakes of the older games feel a lot better paced usually). I'm very interested to hear what people say.
 

jaden767

Amphetamine
As much as I liked generations 1 and 2 I didn't think the rivals were that great? Blue was a jerk and even though he was strong that isn't always a good thing in the Pokemon games because it means that we have to train harder to get on their level.

Also Silver was almost like Blue 2.0 and he didn't get a backstory until the Johto remakes.
 

pacman000

On a quest to be the best...
The games implied Silver was Giovanni's son.

I agree with PoDiRancher about the 1st games' sense of mystery. It seemed like there was so much to discover. Here was a little world full of wonderful, weird creatures to explore! Even the game's style seemed new; I'd never played an RPG before. Today I know too much about the franchise & gaming in general; I don't think I'll ever get that same fresh feeling of discovery.
 

PoDiRancher

Well-Known Member
As much as I liked generations 1 and 2 I didn't think the rivals were that great? Blue was a jerk and even though he was strong that isn't always a good thing in the Pokemon games because it means that we have to train harder to get on their level.

Also Silver was almost like Blue 2.0 and he didn't get a backstory until the Johto remakes.


That's the thing, I think Blue being a jerk is what made him a good rival. Why would you even want to beat someone who thanks you for kicking their ass, and cheers you on hoping you do well? It's just another friendly battle like many random trainer encounters in later games, there is little to no distinguishing element for them so they're sort of pointless, so why have a Rival character at all...? Maybe Blue was a bit too much of a jerk though, I can see that. I do think Silver was better for this reason, they made him soften up and grow through the journey, but he did deserve more backstory.

Still, Rivals served a different purpose than random trainers, they were like you, someone competitive aiming to become Champion, running into them randomly as your journeys happened to cross paths kept you on your toes and acted as a sort of measuring stick to your own growth.

The Pokemon games are often considered too easy so I definitely don't think having some decent challenges in the form of Rivals was a bad thing.

The games implied Silver was Giovanni's son.

I agree with PoDiRancher about the 1st games' sense of mystery. It seemed like there was so much to discover. Here was a little world full of wonderful, weird creatures to explore! Even the game's style seemed new; I'd never played an RPG before. Today I know too much about the franchise & gaming in general; I don't think I'll ever get that same fresh feeling of discovery.

Yeah, they did imply that but it would've been nice to see Silver's story more clearly.

And yeah, that sense of mystery was really a motivating factor in exploring. I definitely didn't feel it much later on, less and less with each installment. Part of it is probably the time it was released, as well as us being more experienced with Pokemon and gaming in general, some bit of nostalgia effect, but they could definitely do more to implore the player to become engaged with their worlds again. I know the Internet makes mysteries harder to keep but they can get creative.
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
I liked the mystery of the earlier games and the story because back then Gamefreak didn't overcomplicate the plots unlike now where everything is over-dramatic. Also I really miss the sprites of the old games.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I really liked Ken Sugimori's art style back in the Gen I days. As time when on his art got a lot more sanitized, and his character drawings began getting slimmer. I also liked that many Pokemon in Gen I looked like actual monsters with sharp angles and an edginess to them, compared to the smoother Pokemon designs that we have now.
 

PoDiRancher

Well-Known Member
I liked the mystery of the earlier games and the story because back then Gamefreak didn't overcomplicate the plots unlike now where everything is over-dramatic. Also I really miss the sprites of the old games.

That's a good point about the story. Not that Pokemon was ever realistic per se, but the comparatively more grounded stories involving Team Rocket (basically just the mafia) were easier to digest. Do we really need alternate universes/time travel, apocalyptic catastrophes, etc as story elements? I don't see them as particularly interesting or relevant to the core idea of catching and battling monsters in a world revolving around these creatures. I also miss the sprites too.

I really liked Ken Sugimori's art style back in the Gen I days. As time when on his art got a lot more sanitized, and his character drawings began getting slimmer. I also liked that many Pokemon in Gen I looked like actual monsters with sharp angles and an edginess to them, compared to the smoother Pokemon designs that we have now.

You're right, they're all extremely smooth and sort of...plasticky, I guess. That's probably got something to do with the water-color type of look they don't use anymore, and the process of digital art. I remember reading something about the art style differences which was pretty interesting, discussing how it changed. I prefer the original style also. Here's what I read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/64or2n/_/dg42vin
 

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
I've never played a Gen I/II game before (will be playing Red and Crystal soon though, would REALLY appreciate some team suggestions) but from the bits I have seen/read about/heard of I can understand why folks would be so nostalgic over these games. Sure there're some severe and wacky bugs and glitches, but at this point it's just adding character to the games over being something to be annoyed about.

I like having a rival who's a bit of a douche towards you more than the friendlier rivals of the newer games, plus Blue has a pretty sweet theme and a cool team! Silver was the epitome of douche who eventually grew to be less of one, and I liked the rumours surrounding him being Giovanni's son. Team Rocket were a solid foundation for evil teams since the mafia is always pretty cool and their shenanigans in Silph Co., their relation to Mewtwo (mainly through the anime/movie, but I digress) and Giovanni being a gym leader.

My absolute favourite thing though is the original Sugimori art style, which when it comes to Kanto and Johto Pokemon I tend to choose to draw over the Gen III art. I just love the watercolour look I guess?
 

PoDiRancher

Well-Known Member
I've never played a Gen I/II game before (will be playing Red and Crystal soon though, would REALLY appreciate some team suggestions) but from the bits I have seen/read about/heard of I can understand why folks would be so nostalgic over these games. Sure there're some severe and wacky bugs and glitches, but at this point it's just adding character to the games over being something to be annoyed about.

I like having a rival who's a bit of a douche towards you more than the friendlier rivals of the newer games, plus Blue has a pretty sweet theme and a cool team! Silver was the epitome of douche who eventually grew to be less of one, and I liked the rumours surrounding him being Giovanni's son. Team Rocket were a solid foundation for evil teams since the mafia is always pretty cool and their shenanigans in Silph Co., their relation to Mewtwo (mainly through the anime/movie, but I digress) and Giovanni being a gym leader.

My absolute favourite thing though is the original Sugimori art style, which when it comes to Kanto and Johto Pokemon I tend to choose to draw over the Gen III art. I just love the watercolour look I guess?

I think you'll enjoy them, the glitches and bugs aren't usually detrimental to the single player experience (several are actually extremely beneficial), and as you said, they do sort of lend the games a quaint charm. Any particular reason you chose Red over Yellow though? I think that aside from not having an initial choice of starter, Yellow is the best version of the original quintet of games. Can't go wrong with any of them though, really. As for team suggestions, a good start for an early team is Squirtle, Mankey, Nidoran, Pikachu, and Rattata. They're 5 solid/decent Pokemon you can stick with throughout the game and can all be obtained before you even reach the first Gym, with a good mix of types as well.

Generation 1 was great especially if you lived through it and got to play the games. I know people say bad things about the old graphics and glitches in the earlier games but those were part of Generation 1's charm. :D

Yeah, the old graphics can be a pain. Pokemon Yellow's are pretty solid, but otherwise the games can look wonky. Green's sprites are....well, the nicest thing I can say is that they definitely nailed the "monster" aspect lol.
 

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
I think you'll enjoy them, the glitches and bugs aren't usually detrimental to the single player experience (several are actually extremely beneficial), and as you said, they do sort of lend the games a quaint charm. Any particular reason you chose Red over Yellow though? I think that aside from not having an initial choice of starter, Yellow is the best version of the original quintet of games. Can't go wrong with any of them though, really. As for team suggestions, a good start for an early team is Squirtle, Mankey, Nidoran, Pikachu, and Rattata. They're 5 solid/decent Pokemon you can stick with throughout the game and can all be obtained before you even reach the first Gym, with a good mix of types as well.

Not really, I guess Red/Blue felt more "proper" compared to Yellow - Blue's Champion team in R/B carries over to things like HG/SS whilst his Yellow team is almost never seen again (even if I appreciate that he uses Sandslash) and the inclusion of the TR trio didn't add much for me. I'm aware that gym leaders had different teams and updated movesets and such (Charizard gets Fly now, huzzah!) but it didn't much difference to me. I'd hate ditching the starter Pikachu which I would definitely do because I prefer Raichu and there's much cooler Electric types in Kanto anyway, and I wasn't really wanting to use all 3 starters? So it would've been redundant. Thank you for your team suggestions though! I've heard Nidoking and Normal types are super good in Kanto as are Psychic types so I will take all these on board. Raticate could be a cool option as well.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
"Twoer" feels like some synthesized word meant to spread out the Genwunner archetype.

At this point, genwunners aren't the most annoying group of Pokemon fans anymore...

But more on topic, there is a bit of charm to the first two sets of games.

The biggest problem with Gen I was all of the weird choices they made in regards of battling.
Fire Red/Leaf Green and Let's Go are basically better versions of Red and Blue.

Gold and Silver were definitely good games that still hold up, but I only really play them on VC since the batteries won't terminate the save.
Heart Gold and Soul Silver were basically better versions with many interesting ideas, and it felt like the definitive experience.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Ishiftyounot said:
Not really, I guess Red/Blue felt more "proper" compared to Yellow - Blue's Champion team in R/B carries over to things like HG/SS whilst his Yellow team is almost never seen again (even if I appreciate that he uses Sandslash) and the inclusion of the TR trio didn't add much for me. I'm aware that gym leaders had different teams and updated movesets and such (Charizard gets Fly now, huzzah!) but it didn't much difference to me. I'd hate ditching the starter Pikachu which I would definitely do because I prefer Raichu and there's much cooler Electric types in Kanto anyway, and I wasn't really wanting to use all 3 starters? So it would've been redundant. Thank you for your team suggestions though! I've heard Nidoking and Normal types are super good in Kanto as are Psychic types so I will take all these on board. Raticate could be a cool option as well.

I didn't care for Yellow version myself, although I did at least appreciate the small changes such as being able to acquire all three Gen I Starters without having to trade for them like in Red/Green/Blue. The addition of Pikachu as a tag along partner was gimmicky, but still cute.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I just can't like Gens 1 & 2. I appreciate them setting the foundations for the rest of the generations but playing them feels like a chore.

Blue and Silver are boring rivals. "Why would I want to fight someone who makes excuses for their losses? The only thing I get from them is a sense of pity. Blue is more appealing after the events of his initial journey (for me his character was fun in Gen 7: both the Alola games and LGPE) than as a rival. Silver is just boring to me. Much prefer rivals like Barry & Cheren who aren't worshipping you but don't antagonize you. Heavily hate the idea that not being a jerk means you're not as good of a rival.

Despite Gen 2 being my least favorite, I love the sprites. Probably my favorite in the series. Retro games tend to have more appealing artstyles for me. So I can give it that.

In terms of plots, I couldn't care less about Gens 1 and 2. The formula of "antagonistic team uses legendary for goal" may be tired out to some, but I take that over getting involved with the mafia. I want to play a fantasy setting with outlandish ideas. Flooding the earth? Resetting the universe? That's cool.

I think Pokémon has always had a great sense of mystery and hasn't changed at all. The world building has gotten better and the subtle details are fun to look for.

Music: Old gen is so much less enticing when listening to their modern remixes. Granted new technology gives them better results but I think FRLG more than HGSS/B2W2/LGPE's renditions of the Gym Leader theme so time isn't always a factor.

I get these games are childhood nostalgia fests for some but they haven't aged all that well and I don't see a reason to revisit them
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Gold and Silver aged significantly better than Red and Blue and at least have functional battle mechanics.

When I played Red and Yellow on the Virtual Console, they aren't that bad, but Wrap is cheap, and good thing the AI isn't good enough to take advantage of sleep status.

Also, grinding is sort of a chore in R/B/Y.
 

Rodpaco

Well-Known Member
Even as someone who started playing in gen III (with FireRed & Sapphire), I also played a lot through the gen I games as a kid. I loved them (even the bugs could get fun, I remember being so excited when I was finally able to catch Mew!) and I can definitely sympathize with some of the "genwunner" perspective. Especially when it comes to the rival, I don't like a rival who's your friend, I want him to be a douchebag like Blue, who also had very strong teams so it was always challenging. Plus the gen I pokémon are iconic, gotta love them.

However, if you put aside the nostalgia for those who started with R/B/Y, I think FR/LG are just much more enjoyable to play. I mean, they're the same games... but better. So I'd definitely recommend FR/LG over R/B/Y for anyone wanting to play through Kanto, as R/B/Y can get somewhat tedious to play by today's standards. Same for G/S/C when compared to HG/SS.

Oh and the PC in gen I and II is just HELL! The PC system in gen III was a gigantic improvement.

Retro games tend to have more appealing artstyles for me. So I can give it that.

Definitely agree with that.
 

Storm the Lycanroc

Oshawott Squad
I've played all the games and gotta say out of all the years Generation 1 is the one I'm least nostalgic for. Mainly because of how much they keep shoving Kanto down our throats. It's the one region we've revisited the most and I never wanna go back. It's the same region, same story, and same 151 Pokemon we've used for 20+ years. I've grown tired of this one region and want to explore the rest of the world based off other real world locations.

Everyone has their own perspective and opinions on this series. This is only mine and I say enjoy whatever era of Pokemon you want!
 
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Rodpaco

Well-Known Member
I'll add that the Johto games had the most potential in my view (having 2 regions in the same game is unique and something I'd really love to see again) but the level curve ruins it. I still enjoy them a lot, but oh boy could they have been infinitely better had they just fixed this little issue. Plus the fact that many strong and nice Johto pokémon weren't available until you reached Kanto.
 
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