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Analysis Versus Passion! (930)

Blaze Master X

The Fallen Hero
This episode is better than two last episodes. Pikachu VS Clawitzer was really good.

Damn Alan is so badass.

He better take Ashy boy down.

In Lord Alain we trust. All hail Lord Alain.
 

Danny L

Active Member
For the umpteenth time. It's not about the number of episodes! They skipped four rounds.

Is it really that hard for you to grasp that? You keep repeating yourself: "the number of episodes is the same as normal".

I'm a different guy, but if Ash v Sawyer/Alain meet expectations what will you think about this league?
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I'm going to burn PAD to the ground if I am forced to see "DEM" used incorrectly constantly

Counter, returns the damage dealt to the target in twice as much damage IN THAT ONE TURN.

Either you can only argue one of three things:

1. Slaking returned all the damage it was dealt twice to Hawlucha, which would've one hit KO'd Hawlucha, but it is DEM because that's NOT HOW counter works otherwise counter would be broken and used far more than BIDE.
2. Slaking returned X-scisccor with twice damage, but it is DEM, because Hawlucha shouldn't have lost to an X-scissor twice as much damage, since Slaking would've had to have lost to all those Karate Chops and Hi Jump Kicks it suffered before. And the only to believe Hawlucha could've lost to X-scissor (x2) would be if it was like Slaking using a 2x move on Hawlucha with its HIGH attack stat. BUT counter does not take into consideration of the user's stats, only the damage dealt.
3. Hawlucha using Flying Press, which would've returned with the equivalent of 4x as much damage, which is more believable to ONE HIT KO Hawlucha than X-scissor (x2) but it's DEM, because COUNTER does NOT work like Sucker Punch, and would NOT have attacked Hawlucha first.

Either way, yes. Slaking using Counter to one hit K.O Hawlucha is DEM. Because it's improperly using the move, for sole purpose of taking out Hawlucha.

This episode is better than two last episodes..
I can agree with this though. But only because Ash actually got to battle

* shots fired *
 
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diakyu

Well-Known Member
I feel like they tried to compensate Hawlucha's loss by using his entrance and having Ash mention Hawlucha did enough damage to let Talonflame beat Slaking. Hawlucha, loser on the battlefield but a winner in our hearts.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Talonflame's loss is the only thing I dislike about the episode.

I'm willing to overlook Slaking because we didn't even know Sawyer had it until last episode, let alone how powerful it was.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
I feel like they tried to compensate Hawlucha's loss by using his entrance and having Ash mention Hawlucha did enough damage to let Talonflame beat Slaking. Hawlucha, loser on the battlefield but a winner in our hearts.

That's what we call the people's hero
 

Janovy

Banned
Counter, returns the damage dealt to the target in twice as much damage IN THAT ONE TURN.
Oh my God, is this your first day?

ANIME =/= GAMES.

The anime can literally take whatever liberties it wants and it has never and will never with 100% accuracy represent the games.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Oh my God, is this your first day?

ANIME =/= GAMES.

The anime can literally take whatever liberties it wants and it has never and will never with 100% accuracy represent the games.

So then by your logic it's acceptable for a Fighting type or normal type move to defeat a ghost type.

Can't wait to see Pikachu beating Aegislash with ONE quick attack.

anime=/=games should only apply to instances where vine whip can close a Pokemon's mouth to prevent it from using flamethrower. Or to use something in a realistic fashion that the games cannot take into consideration because of the limitation.

Changing moves to fit the writers' needs is NOT a justification/legitimate reason to insult me and say anime=/=games.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
So then by your logic it's acceptable for a Fighting type or normal type move to defeat a ghost type.

Can't wait to see Pikachu beating Aegislash with ONE quick attack.

To be fair, there were times when Fighting type or Normal type moves did do damage to Ghost types.
 

nameman

Well-Known Member
I can't speak for MagicallyPuzzled but I definitely disagree if you were to say that to me.

Yes I was horribly disappointed with the first 2 episode, but I wanted/expected this battle with Sawyer to be good.

But what do we get:

1. We actually get to see Alain battling Remo, because screw Ash and Astrid.
2. Alain basically only used TWO Pokemon against Remo.
3. Hawlucha being one shotted just because the damage was equivalent to 4x damage done to Slaking, which IF it would've knocked out Hawlucha means that Slaking is overpowered since Hawlucha should've beaten Slaking long before being one hit KO by Slaking's counter.
4. Counter was also used improperly. Counter is a bide type attack (except for that one turn of damage, but unlike bide it does NOT store the damage its taken, otherwise counter would be broken), Sawyer used Counter like sucker punch which was quite frankly BULL CRAP. And even that wasn't the issue, the move that Hawlucha used BEFORE flying press was X-scissor (if you want to argue the last move that hit Slaking), which even with double damage (returned with counter) to a neutral type like Slaking shouldn't have been enough to defeat Hawlucha in one hit, even though it would feel like a super effective. On top of that counter is based SOLELY on the damage the opponent deals, it would NEVER take into consideration Slaking's ridiculously high attack stat, but if someone were to use Foul Play against Slaking, Slaking would hurt badly.

So yes, using Slaking as strategy against Hawlucha was DEM, and WAS BULL.

It's just like saying Sawyer using a Caterpie strategy to beat Ash's Talonflame.....um WHAT? No, Talonflame should be able to beat Caterpie. I don't care if Caterpie uses string shot to catapult Talonflame into trees and rocks, and defeats it with a very fast tackle. It would be insulting if Talonflame lost that way.

Just like it was insulting for Hawlucha to apparently lose to a "sucker punch"counter. Or just simply because it returned X-scissor double to Hawlucha. So yes one could very well argue that it was just a step above being one shotted.

The last time Counter was used in the Anime was AG088. And it was used the same exact way. So please don't compare the anime to the games. It's not and never will be fully accurate to the games.

To be fair, there were times when Fighting type or Normal type moves did do damage to Ghost types.

Those were errors though. The use of Counter is just how the anime does it.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
So then by your logic it's acceptable for a Fighting type or normal type move to defeat a ghost type.

Can't wait to see Pikachu beating Aegislash with ONE quick attack.

anime=/=games should only apply to instances where vine whip can close a Pokemon's mouth to prevent it from using flamethrower. Or to use something in a realistic fashion that the games cannot take into consideration because of the limitation.

Changing moves to fit the writers' needs is NOT a justification/legitimate reason to insult me and say anime=/=games.

And to add, just because anime=/=games doesn't mean flamethrower should poison or freeze the opponent.

Just because anime=/=games does not mean Tackle should paralyze, burn, freeze.

Just because anime=/=games does not mean a Pokemon should be afflicted with more than one status condition.

Could people properly use anime=/=games please, and only use it when strategies/tactics actually make sense to use in real life situation. Could we not use it to justify the writer's bull when it makes NO sense.

To be fair, there were times when Fighting type or Normal type moves did do damage to Ghost types.
Yes, and the writers need to be called on their mistakes so they can avoid doing it. But obviously they just don't seem to care but still they should be called on it.

The last time Counter was used in the Anime was AG088. And it was used the same exact way. So please don't compare the anime to the games. It's not and never will be fully accurate to the games.



Those were errors though. The use of Counter is just how the anime does it.

Uh no, Jessie's Wobbuffet has used counter and mirror coat correctly the entire time. Just because Slaking isn't Wobbuffet doesn't mean anything.
 

phanpycross

God-king
6v6s are kinda overhyped. some of them have been some of the best episodes of the anime (Katie and Drake), but they have also been pretty bad (Cameron, Tobias, Morrison).

This part wasnt mindblowing, but I never really liked Sawyer, nor did I care about a single one of the pokemon being used.

Goodra and Noivern has me way more hyped.


Also: DAE holier than thou posts.
 
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Janovy

Banned
So then by your logic it's acceptable for a Fighting type or normal type move to defeat a ghost type.

Can't wait to see Pikachu beating Aegislash with ONE quick attack.

anime=/=games should only apply to instances where vine whip can close a Pokemon's mouth to prevent it from using flamethrower. Or to use something in a realistic fashion that the games cannot take into consideration because of the limitation.

Changing moves to fit the writers' needs is NOT a justification/legitimate reason to insult me and say anime=/=games.
Apples and oranges.

Please tell me you did not just compare writers ignoring type immunity (which would be complete BS) and slightly altering how a move works?
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
To be fair, there were times when Fighting type or Normal type moves did do damage to Ghost types.

Bone rush hitting flying types.

Also almost everything swellow did outside of getting manhandled by latios should count here.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Apples and oranges.

Please tell me you did not just compare writers ignoring type immunity (which would be complete BS) and slightly altering how a move works?

Respond to my other point. Flamethrower being used to poison an opponent. Counter should've never worked the way it did. Either with all damage or even used to sucker punch. And even the more legitimate usage of counter still doesn't work.

This isn't slightly altering how the move works, this is COMPLETELY changing how the move works JUST to ONE HIT KO a Pokemon.

Look people, I know you all hate Ash, and probably think he deserves to lose to bullcrap reasons, but I don't. I've called out on Ash beating Trip's Serperior the way he did, so don't argue about how bias I am.
 

Janovy

Banned
Look people, I know you all hate Ash.
I like Ash. I'm not particularly passionate about him, nor do I dislike him. I think he's a likable character, but I don't have any extreme feelings towards him one way or another.

I simply do not think the battle was as crappy as you're portraying it to be.
 

AlexTogekiss

Well-Known Member
Bone rush hitting flying types.

Also almost everything swellow did outside of getting manhandled by latios should count here.


Bone Rush is a Ground type move but it affects Flying types because it literally hits the foes with a bone. Attacks like Eartquake or Earth Power shouldn't affect Flying types because they can evade the attack by flying.
 

nameman

Well-Known Member
Uh no, Jessie's Wobbuffet has used counter and mirror coat correctly the entire time. Just because Slaking isn't Wobbuffet doesn't mean anything.

Except Wobbuffet is a punching bag. It does not attack or have any way of attacking. And even if we ignore that, the attack still connects with Slaking's fist. This means that Flying Press still did its damage.

Bone Rush is a Ground type move but it affects Flying types because it literally hits the foes with a bone. Attacks like Eartquake or Earth Power shouldn't affect Flying types because they can evade the attack by flying.

And even if it hits, who says it does any damage?
 

Aegiscalibur

Add Witty Title Here
Sawyer: "Hmm, a counter for Hawlucha...
Maybe the winged dragon that resists all its moves, if it can land a hit in the first place? Nah.
Maybe the Ghost/Steel with high defences, the one literally carrying a shield around? Nah.
Oh, I know, let's use the normal type!"

2smogon4me

Seriously, what would Hawlucha do against Aegislash? Aim for the horn?
 
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