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And people on GameFAQs are *already* deeming the game "stale"...

Discussion in 'Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion' started by Skyknight, Feb 27, 2019.

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  1. Skyknight

    Skyknight Active Member

    Mostly to the tune of wanting free-form cameras, visible encounters, much higher-end graphics, BotW-type open world, etc. Typically in the name of "immersion" (which I wonder whether it's even that desirable; I genuinely fear addiction can result from too much immersion, and/or forgetting the physical world for a time).

    I will grant that GameFreak seems a little insulated from common player desires, although my evidence for that is more their surprise at XY's customization being so beloved. Mostly a matter of what they deem integral, and what peripheral. But wanting the game to hit every current norm seems like a form of entitlement. (Never mind that I can't see how adhering to the "normal" is either a moral or a financial imperative. Since when is the market all-wise?)
    Sawsbuck and erickexl like this.
  2. Auraninja

    Auraninja Try to understand.

    Gamefaqs has good guides; but their forums suck.

    It's hard to take anything from Gamefaqs seriously.
  3. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    It's not entitled to want Game Freak to modernize the series a little more. Maybe expecting every single one of those is, but this game has none of those things. These are all legitimate criticisms, other games have had some of these features for as long as Pokemon's existed yet they refuse to really evolve the games with the technology. They're in the console market now, which has much higher end specs and appeals to gamers that like cutting edge graphics and playing games for long periods of times, and costs $20 more. This game feels way too safe with that in mind.
    RoySceptile, Pluski, Azureth and 2 others like this.
  4. erickexl

    erickexl Well-Known Member

    I don't understand how people will instantly ignore any form of criticism that they don't agree with. They always seem to discard it as "trolling", "baiting", or "don't take it too seriously."
    I too think it's dumb for Pokemon to be open-world, but Bolt The Cat's right. GF needs to listen and understand their audience better when it comes to making these games.
  5. KKS-Lapras

    KKS-Lapras Well-Known Member

    But how do we know they aren't listening to a majority of their audience. A lot of people were disappointed with Gyms being removed in Gen 7, and here we are in Gen 8, Gyms appear to be making a return. That's just one example. I myself would rather mechanics with the Pokemon themselves be updated, like somehow having flexibility with how many moves a Pokemon can know at a given time. More regional variants, more Mega-Evolutions. Inevitably, there's going to be some new "Generational" feature like those two features listed in the previous sentence that were introduced in past generations, and whatever it is, go all out with it. Make some slight adjustments to the type chart, cough cough Ice types. I get sick of the "open world" rants, because so many great games, even modern games aren't open world, or if "open", still have a restrictions that defy the point of being open world in the first place. This is the first go around with a new region on the Switch. I'd rather this game be brought back to basics, but with some updated flare.
    Redstar45 likes this.
  6. Auraninja

    Auraninja Try to understand.

    Barely anything has been shown with the games. What's to really criticize?
  7. paipr_christian

    paipr_christian grass type fan.

    Specially the Pokemon forum. Like enjoy moments that I can have an actual Pokemon conversation, but most of the time stuff gets derailed, and ends up so far off topic, and yet not modded ..... It's frustrating.
    PokeMon2.0 and Auraninja like this.
  8. erickexl

    erickexl Well-Known Member

    If we knew they were listening to us:
    -we wouldn't be dealing with overly friendly rivals
    -we wouldn't have severe handholding like in Gen 7
    -we'd have difficulty settings
    -we'd have expanded battle frontier, etc.

    GameFreak has made great changes with Z-Moves, Alolan Variants, UBs, etc., but they fail to appeal to what we've been wanting out of these games for a while.
    Poke Trainer J likes this.
  9. Dragalge

    Dragalge Leaked footage

    Sentient Lapras boat creation, trials were met with great reception! It's just that trials aren't a Galar tradition and thus aren't needed in this!
  10. Abizzel1

    Abizzel1 Well-Known Member

    Agree with almost all of this.

    Calling the Switch a console is a stretch, it's more of a handheld that can be docked to a TV, but that's not the point.

    As all of us here I'm excited for a new Pokemon, but considering the hardware upgrade from the 3DS to the Switch, the evolution of what was shown, even graphically wasn't really enough. Switch has 30x more graphics computing power than 3DS undocked, and more than 2x that when docked, and what we got seems to be SUn and Moon with more detailed environments and models, in HD. For fans that's fine and acceptable, but it's not the leap that it should have been. And then mechanics like Pokemon following you weren't shown, a combination of random encounters and visible pokemon could/should have been used, more open areas, and several other things fans have been wanting.

    At this point we have to simply hope for the best and wait on mechanics to see if there are any great additions there like getting Megas Evolutions for all starters, more region type changes, and the rumored secondary type change based on armor.
    erickexl, Nodame and Redstar45 like this.
  11. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    Game IS pretty stale. It is just Sun/Moon's engine in HD. Even the region is way too similar to Kalos structurally(which is probably intended to be a political joke on James Turner's mind in regards to Brexit, but still).

    But you are correct in saying that we don't know much about the actual mechanics of the game yet.
    PokeMon2.0 and Bolt the Cat like this.
  12. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Going back to gyms is like going backwards. They don't have to go with trials, but trials did give a sense of challenge with their stat boosts on the totems and having to face two pokémon at once with one of yours. Gyms aren't going to replicate that challenge unless Game Freak is going to really revamp them, and by that point, why even call them gyms? Especially the gyms in later game are too easy. Earlier on they can still have an evolution advantage and players don't have the best moves on their pokémon yet, but from like the 5th gym players can have so many pokémon with a type advantage over the gym they can easily just build an entire team with an advantage against the gym, the evolution advantage dissipates, and the gyms don't advance at all to compensate. As long as Game Freak refuses to give the gym leaders a proper AI that actually uses its team well, refuses to give later gym leaders anything remotely resembling a functional moveset, and refuses to give any barriers or restrictions for the gym battle whatsoever, they will continue to be nothing interesting or more than just another battle you have to do in the story.

    With Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee being the tutorial games taking care of the newcomers some people expected the traditional series could take a step up in difficulty, and from what it appears they didn't go with that.
    erickexl, Dragalge and Ignition like this.
  13. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    I was pretty disappointed that a few features of LGPE didn't make it into the main series. 'Invisible' long grass encounters always felt like a frustrating means to an end, while the overworld encounters of LGPE were the ultimate realisation of what a world teeming with Pokémon actually looks like. In many ways, this looks like it will be a colourful, grid-less version of Red and Green; yes, that's what the series has always been, but the incremental step up in graphics has never felt so small.

    It's far too early to say this - Totems were significantly more difficult than most prior Gym Leaders but they're not really mechanically distinct. GF could very easily make Leaders much more challenging, it's not a problem with the Leaders themselves.
  14. Nodame

    Nodame You’re such a baka

    Agreed so much. They could have made the graphics a lot better :/ why is it hard for them to make it happen? Lazy? I don’t get it.
    Bolt the Cat likes this.
  15. D*N

    D*N Musical Star

    We've seen like one minute of the game so I'm holding my breath on it. I never wanted an open world myself, so that's no loss for me.
  16. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    It's a systematic problem with how gym leaders function. Right now gym leaders have maybe three or four pokémon, don't think they ever have more in the first encounter. Players can bring six. Gym leaders have an abysmal AI and very little resembling a team structure whatsoever. In early game that's fine but for later game that just doesn't cut it. Gym leaders have enormous disadvantages due to them only focusing on a single type and usually having very little if any countermeasures to compensate for their weaknesses. It's incredibly easy to just stack a team of pokémon strong against the leader and just walk all over them, or if you have a balanced team, just put the one strong against the leader in front and sweep the entire battle that way.

    The player has all the advantages in the battle. More pokémon, type advantages, more items, battling smarts. The gym leader has nothing. Nothing at all. A couple of levels higher isn't making any difference by the 5th gym or beyond, it's nowhere near enough to compensate for the massive advantage players have in those battles. It's virtually impossible to lose gym battles if you've played pokémon before and take a look beforehand on the door which says what kinds of pokémon the leader uses. And because of that, there's no tension whatsoever. And no sense of achievement. It's just boring.
    erickexl, Dragalge and Bolt the Cat like this.
  17. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    Very eloquently put, but I'm still not convinced that much of this is a fundamental, irreconcilable flaw with Gym Leaders. Their predictable type identity is arguably their only real defining factor, and S&M still managed to be challenging with type-focused Totems which were only a little less predictable, with much-improved AI.

    Off the top of my head, here's a number of ways one could raise the difficulty of Leader battles without actually changing what makes them Gym Leaders:

    - Support trainers, ala Totem calls for help
    - Team variation dependent on your starter
    - Automatic Terrain/Room effects
    - Double/triple battle synergies
    - Player limitations ('You may only use three Pokémon' or somesuch)

    Do I honestly think any of these might actually be implemented? Not really - after all, this is the same company that gave us Lt Surge's terrible bin puzzle for the billionth time running in LGPE. However, it's the same team that also broke the mould in several surprising and refreshing ways in S&M. Hope springs eternal.
  18. AlchemistAzure

    AlchemistAzure Well-Known Member

    we got the "back to basics with updated flare" in the Let's Go Series and honestly many people *coughveterantrainerscough* weren't happy with the changes. The complete lack of proper wild battles, having to catch pokemon to gain exp outside of trainer battles, the motion controls that mimicked Pokémon Go.

    now i'm not saying that change is a bad thing, change can be good, it can lead to new ideas or a tweaking to systems that need updates
    Bolt the Cat and erickexl like this.
  19. KKS-Lapras

    KKS-Lapras Well-Known Member

    Are you serious about saying Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee was back to basics? They watered down Gen 1, no wild random battles, gyms that restricted access til you had certain Pokemon. Those games were not back to basics, they were extensions of Let's Go, an experiment in casual watered down gaming.

    That is by far not what I meant when I said back to basics.
  20. DaijobuPlease

    DaijobuPlease Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of the disappointment is that it looks the same right from the get go even though we do not have more than like 3 minutes of film. We did not see "According to Ishihara, the games will be aimed at “experienced fans” of the Pokemon franchise, and will also feature a visual upgrade when compared to previous games in the series" No true Visual Upgrade, color tone looks just like Sun and Moon. As well as people had real high expectation of it being open world for the challenge because of the line "It is not an entry game, but a game that we want longtime fans of the Pokémon series to look forward to." and this is where i tell people wait until the next teaser to decide because this teaser was just showing the visuals even though some of the visuals did not hit home run of free looking cameras, better battles. It reiterated the old feel of pokemon encounters and pokemon battles, linear. The map did not help either being a map going straight up. Sun and moons map at least made it look like we had free roam.
    Bolt the Cat likes this.
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