Animal Cruelty. This is terrible.

[Dragontamer1011]

And it aggravates me when people try to help other people, and do more harm then good. More-so when they try to lecture (I'm not saying you have, but it has happened in the past by certain types of people) me on how I'm a bad person for not helping kids in Africa etc.

I think we need to agree to disagree here, I don't foresee this ending any other way.

I was just pointing out I hear about/see humans abused on a daily basis, whearas I don't see animals anywhere near as often.

Anyway, I love animals, always have. I have 5 snakes, 3 turtles, a Gecko, 4 frogs, and 2 Australian Shepherd dogs (One is 9 the other is 1 1/2).

I saved a feral cat who was dying of dehydration this summer and took him to a shelter where they would take care of him. Honestly if I had the money I would love to raise a bunch of dogs, even more if I had help, just to keep them from being put down. Its sad how many are put down each day...

 

[ShadowSplash]

I was just pointing out I hear about/see humans abused on a daily basis, whearas I don't see animals anywhere near as often.

Anyway, I love animals, always have. I have 5 snakes, 3 turtles, a Gecko, 4 frogs, and 2 Australian Shepherd dogs (One is 9 the other is 1 1/2).

I saved a feral cat who was dying of dehydration this summer and took him to a shelter where they would take care of him. Honestly if I had the money I would love to raise a bunch of dogs, even more if I had help, just to keep them from being put down. Its sad how many are put down each day...

Agreed. Especially when you know there are shelters that put down animals after a week if they aren't adopted. I know that's becoming less common, but I wouldn't doubt that they still do it without letting people know.

I remember a story about a guy that build a bunch of dog house kinda things and all kinds of shelters for all of the stray cats in his area. And he would put food out constantly, so it was home for like 40-50 stray cats. It was amazing. :3 But I bet it smelled pretty bad too. XD

 

[ShadowKyogre443]

I don't think I wanna look at that video... What happened?

It just shows how evil people force horses to run to their knees. It isn't easy to watch but it doesn't get bloody or anything like that.

 

[Dragontamer1011]

Agreed. Especially when you know there are shelters that put down animals after a week if they aren't adopted. I know that's becoming less common, but I wouldn't doubt that they still do it without letting people know.

I remember a story about a guy that build a bunch of dog house kinda things and all kinds of shelters for all of the stray cats in his area. And he would put food out constantly, so it was home for like 40-50 stray cats. It was amazing. :3 But I bet it smelled pretty bad too. XD

Holy crap, 50 cats?!? Wow, lol, thats alot... It'd be really cool to run a huge pet sanctuary but you need funding, people to help, and more... Now as for the getting put down part, humans are solely to blame for that. Why don't you get your pets spade and neutered? Oh, because your too lazy...

Also, about Roberts comment and the video, I don't always view horse sports as bad. Many horses are bred for this and are taken good care of for the most part. Its the people that run the poor things to death and don't take good care of them that don't deserve to have them. I spent alot of time with my ex-girlfriends horse, she was a huge grey mare (Can't remember breed) that she used for a few agility shows and stuff. They're such amazing animals, especially when you take time to get to know them. The only bad thing is cleaning up the droppings... She did that part..

 

[Kiruria]

Hmm, I looked around a few pages of this thread and didn't find the word "sadism" anywhere. And now I will point to it as a reason why some people abuse animals. Why animals rather than humans? Because animals are harder to track and often helpless. If I were a highly sadistic person with a strong passion for torturing people, I would first practice on animals because they're easier to get away with than people. Then I might move on to babies and children, and eventually human adults. But I digress.

The closest thing to animal cruelty I have ever personally witnessed was when my science teacher fed a live mouse to his pet snake in front of the whole class. I'm pretty sure the mouse came from a place designed to provide them as food for other animals, so I don't even call this animal abuse. And besides, cats have a habit of making mice die a more slow and painful death before eating them, and the mice they brutally murder are often pests. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

Animal cruelty and torture in general are subjects that have been very interesting to me lately... They are practices that are best off restricted to fiction and imagination. Call me crazy, but sometimes I have daydreams about torturing animals (even my own cats), and I wonder how they would react to certain methods of it. In fact, I have a creative writing project in planning that features a villain who does just that, and posts videos and pictures of her work on the Internet as well. Yet I have never tortured or abused an animal in real life, and don't ever plan on it. I just have to wonder if some of those animal abusers out there fail to make a distinction between fantasies like this and reality... which by the way is their problem, not the media's.

Haha, there's this song I've been listening to lately about some guy who enjoys feeding poison-coated peanuts and such to pigeons. Some people might call this animal cruelty, and I guess I can agree... although pigeons are so common and hardly ever kept as pets that I wouldn't see it as too much of an issue. And I doubt that the person who wrote the song actually does that anyway. I just figured this was fun to mention and supports my two above points.

 

[Green Blockhead]

Why would they put down animals if they're not adopted? That's like saying "Eh. No ones buying my Nintendo DS, I'll just smash it".

 

[ShadowSplash]

Why would they put down animals if they're not adopted? That's like saying "Eh. No ones buying my Nintendo DS, I'll just smash it".

Yea but you can leave a collection of NDS in the closet and never touch it, even if it gets dusty. You have to clean up after, feed, and water animals that aren't adopted.

I'm not defending them for doing that, I highly disagree and detest them for doing it, but it's not really a valid analogy.

 

[orangezilla]

There was a video on facebook of a guy kicking a dog and dragging it before throwing it off of a roof. He'd tagged all his friends and they were laughing about it on the comments, it was from an arab country but that doesnt make it right. You have to be sick in the head to do something like that. No normal sane person would even think of such a thing.

 

[~Kari~]

I can't believe anyone would abuse an animal. Look into their eyes! Can't they see they have emotion, like humans? Animals are innocent! Animal abusers make me mad. I've heard about people throwing their cat/dog across the room because it did something the owner didn't like. How COULD you throw your pet across the room? What is wrong with those people?

 

[BarryL]

What do you people think of glue traps? There's a fine example of blatant animal cruelty right there - mouse or rat gets trapped but it doesn't die instantly. It struggles violently to the point of ripping off its flesh, breaking its limbs or even dislocating a jaw. They spend hours and hours stuck on superglue, frightened out of their little minds and end up covered in their own excrement. And do you know what some people do to them after? They throw them away into the bin, like a discarded burger wrapper. The animal continues to spend several hours in panic and absolute pain before dehydration/starvation kills it finally, a process that may take a few days.

Yet it is OK to torture an animal like this because it's a "pest" or "just a mouse" ? How is this even legal? It is unbelievable how cruel people can be, and the sort of excuses they come up with. Things like glue traps make me part-misanthropic. When somebody must kill an animal, it should be relatively quick and painless - not torture and hours of agony.

The closest thing to animal cruelty I have ever personally witnessed was when my science teacher fed a live mouse to his pet snake in front of the whole class. I'm pretty sure the mouse came from a place designed to provide them as food for other animals, so I don't even call this animal abuse.

I disagree. I would call this abusive because it's a contrived situation under the full control of a human being, who has the power to minimise pain/suffering but chooses not to.

Live feeding isn't required, a snake can be fed pre-killed just fine. The science teacher was an idiot - I've known mice to take out snake eyes because they decide to fight back. YT is a fine example of idiots with snakes whose main purpose of having them seem to be throwing live animals to them, and making a spectacle out of it. With pre-killed, the mouse doesn't have to suffer like that unnecessarily and there's no risk to the snake. I hate it when people do this for entertainment, the animal has zero chance to escape and for those who say it's natural, then explain to me how a glass enclosure is natural?

These videos sum up my thoughts on live feeding. I hope people take their time to watch them as they are very informative.

I've seen a live feeding video where rats get fed to a snapping turtle. The video portrays them as cute little pets, then all of a sudden it comes with rock music with the person dangling the animal by its tail. The result is one of the most graphic things I've ever seen, and I dare not post the gif showing some of it as it will give people nightmares. Essentially, it was a snuff film because some sicko likes watching things die in a great amount of pain. The hordes of absolute idiots saying how awesome it was and justifying such things by saying "it's nature", makes me hope that they encounter a shark or grizzly bear.

And besides, cats have a habit of making mice die a more slow and painful death before eating them, and the mice they brutally murder are often pests. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

What is your point? Are you suggesting humans should start acting like cats when it comes to mice now?

Some people might call this animal cruelty, and I guess I can agree... although pigeons are so common and hardly ever kept as pets that I wouldn't see it as too much of an issue.

So we should ignore animal cruelty to common animals that are not pets? I hope you realise that animal cruelty doesn't just mean cruelty to pets...

I really don't understand the big deal on animal abuse. So some dogs get hurt each day, well guess what? The same thing is probably happening to a child right now.

Suffering is always a 'big deal', whether it is to a child, a dog or to a mouse. There are levels of which we prioritise them of course (eg. my brother's pain is more important than some random mouse), but that doesn't mean the pain of the mouse doesn't matter at all. That there are abused children doesn't mean we shouldn't care about animals - we can care about BOTH and I'm sick to death of people suggesting that caring about animals and caring about people are mutually exclusive. They're not.

And by your logic, I can say someone hurting you doesn't matter and "isn't a big deal" because there's someone somewhere, being a serial killer and killing children.

Rats. They eat your food and can be a danger to your health. That's why people do kill them. However, people show concern to dogs and cats more because they, unlike rats and insects, are not pests. They are there to be loved and cared for. To be a companion.

Does that mean it's OK to kill one in an overly cruel manner? Cruelty is cruelty, it does not matter if it's a pest. If someone decided to set one on fire for example, then they're still being a cruel, malicious a-hole. And not all rats are pests... what about domesticated rats? It's not just dogs and cats that are loving companions. All animals deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. The worst kind of people are those who say that dogs and cats are cute and fluffy and complain about cruelty to them, then turn around and torture a rat they have trapped because it was a "pest". I despise these kind of hypocritical people, they have NO place to whine about cruelty to animals if they themselves inflict it on other animals!

 

[Mrs Mime]

^ Good links.

I hate it myself when people say it's natural to feed live prey. They're lacking brain cells so much it's painful and I can never finished reading their comments. Like the man said, they're not in the wild, they're in a confined space, and you wouldn't give them parasites and such because it's 'wild', plus the prey can not escape. I like how they choose to ignore these facts.

The sickest part of a lot of large snake/monitor owners is that they get a thrill from watching animals suffer. What the hell happened to them during childhood How frustrated must they be to enjoy watching something suffer? It's strange because I bet part of them feels like they're doing no wrong because they're looking after the snake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QqA2ug1uY&feature=related

This guy clearly enjoys watching something suffer, even though it's subtle.

Also, because n animal is a pest why does it mean it has more right to suffer? So what if a cat hurts a vole more than we do? So what if a t-rex made small dinosaurs suffer? They act on instinct. We have a choice. If you are really as intelligent as the rest of the human race, you should have evolved empathy. If you haven't, you're an undeveloped dead end.

 

[RobertStyx]

I disagree. I would call this abusive because it's a contrived situation under the full control of a human being, who has the power to minimise pain/suffering but chooses not to.

Live feeding isn't required, a snake can be fed pre-killed just fine. The science teacher was an idiot - I've known mice to take out snake eyes because they decide to fight back. YT is a fine example of idiots with snakes whose main purpose of having them seem to be throwing live animals to them, and making a spectacle out of it. With pre-killed, the mouse doesn't have to suffer like that unnecessarily and there's no risk to the snake. I hate it when people do this for entertainment, the animal has zero chance to escape and for those who say it's natural, then explain to me how a glass enclosure is natural?

These videos sum up my thoughts on live feeding. I hope people take their time to watch them as they are very informative.

While I do agree with the rest of your post, I do have to take issue with this.
No, pre-killed is not just fine. Snakes are incredibly picky eaters, a lot won't eat pre-killed mice/rats. Hell, I used to know a snake that would only eat live rats that were pure white. Despite how much the owner tried feeding it pre-killed rats, or ones that were other colour, it would not eat them.
By all means, if your snake will eat pre-killed, go with that, it's the FAR better option. But you need to understand that a good portion of snake won't eat pre-killed.

 

[Dear Insanity]

While I do agree with the rest of your post, I do have to take issue with this.
No, pre-killed is not just fine. Snakes are incredibly picky eaters, a lot won't eat pre-killed mice/rats. Hell, I used to know a snake that would only eat live rats that were pure white. Despite how much the owner tried feeding it pre-killed rats, or ones that were other colour, it would not eat them.
By all means, if your snake will eat pre-killed, go with that, it's the FAR better option. But you need to understand that a good portion of snake won't eat pre-killed.

Pretty much 99% of snakes can be taught to eat pre-killed food, seeing as they're not really that intelligent. I know someone who has been keeping snakes for years and he has never once had to give them live food. It can actually be quite risky to give a snake live prey anyway - it's not exactly a frequent occurrence, but snakes can and do die from rodent bites.

If a snake has been used to eating live prey, then obviously it's going to be tricky to change their habits but it's certainly possible. Live feeding should only be used as a last resort in the rare case of a snake outright refusing to eat pre-killed food, even after trying to sway its preference.

 

[RobertStyx]

Pretty much 99% of snakes can be taught to eat pre-killed food, seeing as they're not really that intelligent. I know someone who has been keeping snakes for years and he has never once had to give them live food. It can actually be quite risky to give a snake live prey anyway - it's not exactly a frequent occurrence, but snakes can and do die from rodent bites.

If a snake has been used to eating live prey, then obviously it's going to be tricky to change their habits but it's certainly possible. Live feeding should only be used as a last resort in the rare case of a snake outright refusing to eat pre-killed food, even after trying to sway its preference.

I used to wpork in a pet shop, and you'd be amazed the number of snakes we got in that outright refused to eat any thing but live food.
There would be the occasional one that we could put the rats in the microwave for a few seconds, to trick the snake into thinking it was alive from the body heat, but for the most part most of them would only eat live rats. It wasn't an uncommon occurrence for us to have to take pre-killed rats out of tanks after they had been in for a few days, and had started to rot due to the snakes refusing to eat them.

 

[Dear Insanity]

I used to wpork in a pet shop, and you'd be amazed the number of snakes we got in that outright refused to eat any thing but live food.
There would be the occasional one that we could put the rats in the microwave for a few seconds, to trick the snake into thinking it was alive from the body heat, but for the most part most of them would only eat live rats. It wasn't an uncommon occurrence for us to have to take pre-killed rats out of tanks after they had been in for a few days, and had started to rot due to the snakes refusing to eat them.

Well I've never heard of that happening before, maybe the guy I know is just extremely lucky. When he had a problem with a particular picky snake, he'd just move the rat or mouse around with tongs and the snake would go for it. Rubbing the dead prey on a live animal seemed to do the trick as well.
The thought of giving a snake live prey does make me feel a little ill.

 

[the hydreigon]

would you want to hurt this?

 

[BarryL]

While I do agree with the rest of your post, I do have to take issue with this.
No, pre-killed is not just fine. Snakes are incredibly picky eaters, a lot won't eat pre-killed mice/rats. Hell, I used to know a snake that would only eat live rats that were pure white. Despite how much the owner tried feeding it pre-killed rats, or ones that were other colour, it would not eat them.
By all means, if your snake will eat pre-killed, go with that, it's the FAR better option. But you need to understand that a good portion of snake won't eat pre-killed.

That is rare, so no, I would not say "a good portion" at all. Live feeding in Australia is illegal, as well as in the UK, yet most people have no problem there. There are also ways to ween them off live food, but owners are either ignorant or lazy (meaning they give up on the first try). That video I linked, this snake owner gives tips on how to do this. He even weened a wild snake off live in captivity!

However, that said, I do understand if it's a last resort thing. Though it would be better to stun the animal so there's no risk to the snake.

You know what's worse though? Some people feed live mice to their ferrets. Now, we know for sure that ferrets definitely do not need live food, just like a dog or cat doesn't need live food. The owner claims "enrichment", but that's what toys and belly tickles are for. Seems like the owner doesn't pay much attention to them, and enjoys watching her ferrets rip live animals apart.

 

[RobertStyx]

That is rare, so no, I would not say "a good portion" at all. Live feeding in Australia is illegal, as well as in the UK, yet most people have no problem there. There are also ways to ween them off live food, but owners are either ignorant or lazy (meaning they give up on the first try). That video I linked, this snake owner gives tips on how to do this. He even weened a wild snake off live in captivity!

However, that said, I do understand if it's a last resort thing. Though it would be better to stun the animal so there's no risk to the snake.

You know what's worse though? Some people feed live mice to their ferrets. Now, we know for sure that ferrets definitely do not need live food, just like a dog or cat doesn't need live food. The owner claims "enrichment", but that's what toys and belly tickles are for. Seems like the owner doesn't pay much attention to them, and enjoys watching her ferrets rip live animals apart.

The majority of snakes I've worked with have all been live fed, simply due to their refusal to eat pre-killed.
If you read through my posts since that one, I said I used to work in a pet store, and we had to feed a lot of them alive. We tried, multiple times, to get them to eat pre-killed, but they wouldn't.
Also, are you sure it is illegal here? As stated, they were live fed in the shop, and a few in university are as well (though, they're different species of snakes, and are fed crickets and locusts).

I don't agree with feeding a ferret like that though. I keep ferrets, they don't need live food. I've never seen a ferret that would eat only live food. Hell, my dog is a pickier eater than any of the ferrets. From what I've seen, to a ferret, food is food.
I can understand people who keep ferrets to hunt with rather than pets feeding them like that, but there is no need to feed pet ferrets like that.

 

[BarryL]

The majority of snakes I've worked with have all been live fed, simply due to their refusal to eat pre-killed.
If you read through my posts since that one, I said I used to work in a pet store, and we had to feed a lot of them alive. We tried, multiple times, to get them to eat pre-killed, but they wouldn't.
Also, are you sure it is illegal here? As stated, they were live fed in the shop, and a few in university are as well (though, they're different species of snakes, and are fed crickets and locusts).

Pet stores usually don't have specialists working for them. They must not be trying hard enough.

Yes, live feeding mammals to reptiles is illegal in the UK under the Animal Welfare Act. I think it makes the exception if it's a last resort thing as there's no other choice, but for some reason I don't feel it to be that way with your pet store. Crickets and locusts aren't covered in the Animal Welfare Act, mammals are.

 

[RobertStyx]

Pet stores usually don't have specialists working for them. They must not be trying hard enough.

Ya, apart from Supermarkets and international chain stores, all the shops here are owned by families at the largest. Smallest are owned by a single individual. Most people can't afford a specialist. Best they can get is part time biology or veterinary students.

Yes, live feeding mammals to reptiles is illegal in the UK under the Animal Welfare Act. I think it makes the exception if it's a last resort thing as there's no other choice, but for some reason I don't feel it to be that way with your pet store. Crickets and locusts aren't covered in the Animal Welfare Act, mammals are.

Ah right, fair enough. I've just never seen it enforced. Really though, if the animal isn't going to eat anything else, what can they really do about it? I understand prosecuting where the animal will eat pre-killed, or can be trained to, but at the end of the day, there is still cases where they won't eat anything but live, however uncommon they may be.