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Animals Or Creatures?

DANdotW

Previously Iota
This is something I've been thinking about for a long time now. In my works, I now always describe Ekans as a serpent, Growlithe as a canine, Meowth as a feline.

Some, however, describe them as a snake, dog, and cat, respectively.

Now, in the fictional world we write in (when writing about Pokémon, that is), surely there is no such thing as a snake, a dog, or a cat. That is my view at least. These things don't exist, so why describe Squirtle as a turtle?

What do you describe as, and essentially what are your views on them?

Iota
 

purple_drake

E/GL obsessed
Actually, IIRC the in-game pokedex and the handbook for RBG/GSC often refer to pokemon in comparison to real-life animals. Ekans is actually classified as a 'snake pokemon', which suggests that the people living with pokemon at the very least know what a snake is. I don't view it as 'normal' animals not existing as much as them just not being as common in places where pokemon are. So pikachu would be more common in Kanto than in America, but the house-rat would be more common in America than in Kanto.

In any case, to describe them as a 'serpent', 'canine' or 'feline' practically assumes the existence of snakes, dogs and cats anyway, since they're words used specifically to describe the characteristics and genetics of those specific kinds of animals; the very act of using them assumes their existence, because if they didn't exist, then neither would the words to use as a comparison.

I don't actually think you can fully separate pokemon from 'normal' animals, or exclude comparing them, because linguistically all the words like 'canine' arise from describing and relating to dog-like creatures, and so on. If you remove the comparison entirely you'd have to invent an entirely new set of words to reference the pokemon's characteristics with, in which case it would take away anything for the reader/player/viewer to relate to.
 
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Yami Ryu

Well-Known Member
Well it is called Tiny turtle pokemon. And the games/manga/anime, do hint that there are other creatures- animals. Or atleast it calls insect pokemon 'bugs' and fish pokemon 'fish'.

But if they're just going The blue turtle blasted out some water from its mouth, then well that's not really describing Squirtle as a turtle. That's being lazy. Cause I mean there's dozens of turtle species.

Ever run into a snake head? my god they're evil buggers even when you're trying to save them. Then red ears, sea turtles, ofc tortises and other such creatures.

For some it's kinda blatantly obvious what it is- and no one really would complain if Magnemite was called well, an animated magnet set with eyes and an electrical voice- cause it is. Like Squirtle is a Turtle, Charmander is a Salamander [based on the legends of flaming salamanders] and how Charizard is a dragon, and in the dragon breeding group even when dragons, shouldn't exist and thus it leaves why dragon pokemon got dubbed that, if there weren't myths and all that jazz.

Some people have a mix of earth and pokemon. Some have it pure pokemon. So it doesn't really matter imo, aslong as they try to describe.

I tried describing Arceus.

Is it a wolf is it a horse is it a deer with mutated antlers growing from it's belly, what is it X-x
 

bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
I suppose it depends on how you view it. I do recall that in the anime, there have been 'normal' fish seen, and also meat consumed (so unless they ate Pokemon meat there...), and I also recall somewhere on the internet from a manga (?) a picture of a dog with Ash and Co in the background, so there's some canonical evidence there for animals in the Pokemon world, if one wishes to use that.

Then there's the Pokedex entries which describe Pokemon in relation to real animals (such as Pikachu known as a 'Mouse Pokemon', or Ninetales as a 'Fox Pokemon', Arbok as a 'Cobra', etc, etc). I suppose here though one could argue that it's done to allow for players to easier identify the Pokemon with what they're based on or something like that? Could be taken either way though, I believe. Some Pokedex entries for Spearow mention it hunting bugs and insects, in a way that suggest these insects are insects rather than Pokemon as well.

As for how I do it...well, I don't normally draw much in the way of parallels from the Pokemon to real-world animals, but I do recall for instance mentioning a Noctowl as being an owl-like Pokemon or something like that, and the odd other reference here and there. Mostly (if not only) in situations where I want to quickly give the reader a general idea of what the Pokemon looks like, if they don't happen to remember it, or know of it, rather than spend a good amount of time describing the Pokemon if it only shows up in that scene anyhow.

EDIT: Lag and not checking if anyone posted = my post being ninja'd by two. XD
 

purple_drake

E/GL obsessed
I tried describing Arceus.

Is it a wolf is it a horse is it a deer with mutated antlers growing from it's belly, what is it X-x

I was thinking maybe it's supposed to be based off the kirin, a weird fiery antelope ... thing. In terms of importance, it's up there with the dragon and the phoenix, although apparently which one is considered the most important at any point in history depends upon the ruling dynasty of the time. Fits in with the whole god thing, though.

Which, considering it's decently obscure compared to the dragon and the phoenix, isn't really very helpful in terms of having something to compare it to descriptively speaking ...

EDIT: Just had to post this, because the similarities stunned me when I first saw it, but I scanned this out of one of my mythology books:

kirin2.jpg


I can just imagine them actually looking at this picture as they designed Arceus' sprite. Although they probably didn't.
 
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Considering I tend to favor the Pokémon that frequently have no animalian real-world equivalents, (Ghost-types are common in this regard) I don't really bother with simile-istic (if that wasn't a word then it is now) descriptions; I just try to use the "scatter the details throughout the text, maybe have more when it's introduced" method.

Claiming that regular animals do not exist because you never see any uses a flawed assumption that ignores a fundamental difference between animals and Pokémon: Wild animals do not generally attack random passersby, or, for that matter, stick around when random passersby approach. Pokémon, on the other hand, do. Game-wise, this means fewer sprites to make and less data to worry about in general. Manga- and anime-wise it seems to be a matter of interest — why bother with regular dogs and cats when you can get a Meowth and get rich or get a Growlithe and burn things protect your home against burglars?
 

Yonowaru in Chaos

gaspard de la nuit
I find introducing any animal barring certain insects being problematic. Anything smaller than a rat (not a Ratatta!) is bearable, and sometimes, these animals become a bit 'essential'. For example, it'd seem weird for the story to take place in some place tropical and not have any mosquitoes and other pestilences around (introducing mosquito Pokemon won't really help, because they'd have to be of a certain size...and would seemingly kill for blood rather than merely being parasites).

Anyway, I'd *still* describe certain Pokemon according to their real world equivalents, but I'd avoid specifics for obvious reasons. Then again, Growlithe-dog is a lot different to Houndoom-dog...

I was thinking maybe it's supposed to be based off the kirin, a weird fiery antelope ... thing. In terms of importance, it's up there with the dragon and the phoenix, although apparently which one is considered the most important at any point in history depends upon the ruling dynasty of the time. Fits in with the whole god thing, though.

Which, considering it's decently obscure compared to the dragon and the phoenix, isn't really very helpful in terms of having something to compare it to descriptively speaking ...

It's more correct to refer it as being a 'giraffe', though technically, the kirin (like the dragon, less so the fenghuang) has become its own brand of animal. But yes, Arceus was almost certainly based off the kirin. After all, who else in the real world places an ungulate at such high esteem?
 
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Kumata

Argh! Almost had it!
Well, most authors use that kind of description, regardless of whether the world they're writing about (the Pokémon world, the Star Wars world(s), the Bionicle world) has 'real' animals or not, simply because it evokes a better image in the mind of the reader. Let's say I wrote a story involving an Ekans, Which description do you think is better; serpentine or long wriggly thing? It's also about simplicity. As a writer, would you prefer to describe Growlithe without using any word related to dog, or canine, and as a reader, would you prefer to read a description that describes the Pokémon's shape exclusively, and makes no mention of any animal it might resemble?
 

purple_drake

E/GL obsessed
It's more correct to refer it as being a 'giraffe', though technically, the kirin (like the dragon, less so the fenghuang) has become its own brand of animal. But yes, Arceus was almost certainly based off the kirin. After all, who else in the real world places an ungulate at such high esteem?

Not really; there's evidence that the concept of the kirin existed before they discovered the existence of the giraffe, it's just that the similarities caused them to associate it with the giraffe after they discovered it, and those associations became linguistic in nature (what with 'kirin' also being the Japanese word for 'giraffe'). The Japanese kirin tends to look more antelope-like (as opposed to the Chinese qilin which looks more predator/chimera-like), and neither have necks as long as a giraffe does; if the original concept did come from the giraffe, you'd think the representation would reflect that, seeing as it's one of the giraffe's more obvious unique attributes.
 
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Pink Parka Girl

I wish I could change my username
I do the exact same thing as the OP - I have an intense dislike of the idea of any real animal larger than the average insect that doesn't have a pokémon counterpart (mosquitoes are okay, bees are not) actually existing in the Pokémon World (discounting humans, for obvious reasons); so, in my fics, I tend to slavishly avoid any mention of real animals directly. Terms like "canine" are okay to me because I interpret it as that term, in the Pokémon world, covering not real dogs but creatures like Growlithe, Houndour, Snubbull, Smeargle, Eevee and others who share base characteristics. "Rodent," in a similar manner, covers everything from Rattata to Pachirisu, though I also use more narrow terms (sciurid, for example, to refer to Pachirisu). I even go as far as to avoid mentioning real animals anywhere, in dialogue or narration - the only exception I can think of in my fic Paws for Alarm is referring to a horse chestnut tree directly as a horse chestnut. None of the awkward alternatives I came up with read smoothly ^^;

Real-animal references may be a big pet peeve of mine, but I don't begrudge others for doing it in the least - it's just not my personal style and not how I prefer to view the Pokemon world XD As an animal lover, the idea that the earth creatures we know and love are kept hidden 99% of the time, never seen, interacted with, or loved, and seeming to exist in the world solely to avoid the thorny issue of having to eat a Tauros just doesn't feel right - though it does make me want to write a fanfic from the POV of one of those real animals! XD (I know not all fics that mention real animals avoid ever showing them directly, but too many do, and it always made me wonder ^^; ).
 

Yonowaru in Chaos

gaspard de la nuit
Not really; there's evidence that the concept of the kirin existed before they discovered the existence of the giraffe, it's just that the similarities caused them to associate it with the giraffe after they discovered it, and those associations became linguistic in nature (what with 'kirin' also being the Japanese word for 'giraffe'). The Japanese kirin tends to look more antelope-like (as opposed to the Chinese qilin which looks more predator/chimera-like), and neither have necks as long as a giraffe does; if the original concept did come from the giraffe, you'd think the representation would reflect that, seeing as it's one of the giraffe's more obvious unique attributes.

Well yes, but I was talking about the modern interpretations of the kirin/qilin. Words change over time, and what was once used to refer a sentient deer creature has become associated with a giraffe in addition to scaly deers to the point that it might as well be a different 'animal' (like the Chinese dragon).

Bottom line: Arceus is a giraffe kirin in a traditional Japanese sense.

EDIT:
(as opposed to the Chinese qilin which looks more predator/chimera-like)

Just to clear up confusion, the depicted qilin looks like that because of the style of art and sculpture. You'd find that depictions of Chinese dragons also share the same head (as you can pretty much see in modern dragon dancing costumes). The stocky limbs are also a result of that, since it would look disproportionate to its large head (dragons, though, rarely needing to touch the ground, keep their Tyrannosaurus-like arms).
 
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Llama_Guy

Awesomely awesome
Hmm, whatever you see fit. In my upcoming fic, wild Pokémon are, well, wild. You know, there's predators and prey and all that stuff.

Also, in the episode Ash caught Pidgeotto, it ate a larva-looking thing which was certainly not a Pokémon.
 

Semreth

Active Member
Hmm, whatever you see fit. In my upcoming fic, wild Pokémon are, well, wild. You know, there's predators and prey and all that stuff.

Does that mean you are going to go with the idea of Pokémon eating other Pokémon? It is something I've been thinking about for the fic I'm currently planning, as I'm interested in realism and the like.

Also, in the episode Ash caught Pidgeotto, it ate a larva-looking thing which was certainly not a Pokémon.

Hmmm, I think the existance of insects within the Pokémon world may be plausable, as don't they contribute to a locations/enviroments ecological well being?

Non-Pokémon types of fish I could also envision existing as well, but when it comes to mammals, and the like, I just find it hard to imagine them co-existing in nature alongside Pokémon. Not sure if anyone else feels this way...
 

Caithyra

Well-Known Member
Heh, I approach smaller animals, such as insects, by creating obvious pokémon based on the animal (I base of the games when I write, and since we don't see any other creatures except pokémon). Like a pokémon like a mosquito.

Only, they don't evolve, are really small, usually only knows very few attacks, has crappy "stats", and they are too small to be registered by pokéballs to get captured.

And they have the intelligence of insects as well.

I also always thought that pokémon ate each other. Isn't there some pokédex entries about that? And people eating farfetch'd and slowpoke tails?

Tauros also doesn't seem to be the brightest bulbs around, so maybe they are possible beef cattle?

After all, the pokédex thought it remarkable that Dragonite is as intelligent as humans, suggesting that it isn't the norm. Maybe pokémon really are the pokémon world's equivalent of animals, and that trained pokémon just develop greater intelligence?

There's also the fact that normal animals would be pretty much wiped out, competing for resources with supernatural, slightly more intelligent and adaptable, species.

Take one of our dogs against a fire-spewing Growlithe? Or a wolf against the flame of Houndoom, which gives burns that never stops being painful (according to the pokédex)?

Any bird against the whirlwind-blowing bird pokémon? Yeah.

But it is up to the writer to choose what to write, and the reader to choose what to read. Hopefully there is a middle ground.
 

Yamikarasu

Wannabe Hasbeen
I was going to make a post explaining my personal opinion on the subject, but everything I would have said would have matched Pink Parka Girl's post word for word. Although, I would go so far as to not even mention mosquitoes in a fic. I tend to think of Pokemon as creatures that are as intelligent as humans.

As for eating Tauros, I just like to think of everyone in the Pokemon world as a vegetarian. They might eat eggs, but only Chansey eggs at that. Milk would come from Miltank, but otherwise a person's diet would come mostly from berries, along with other non-meat foods like wheat that exist in our world.
 

TropiusFan

Tropius Trainer
Here is my theory. I think that they eat animals we know and that Pok'emon supposedly evolved from animals we know. Such as rat to Pikachu, Eel to Dratini.
 

blaziken33

-Elite Association-
In the anime, Ash's mom mentioned them having chicken for dinner or something if memory serves correctly.

This also brings up another thing, do people in the pokemon world eat pokemon to get protein, or real-life animals?
 

KingRaichu

Hail to da king baby
Whatever. I describe it as is easiest to understand. i realize that from a first person perspective of an all-Pokemon world inhabitant calling something snake-like is a weird thing to do, but the summary from the character is for the audiences benefit. of course, if you are willing to be very good at desciription and are extremely good with words/creative, go right ahead. i prefer to make it understandable to readers first and foremost.
 

Yami Ryu

Well-Known Member
Here is my theory. I think that they eat animals we know and that Pok'emon supposedly evolved from animals we know. Such as rat to Pikachu, Eel to Dratini.

Um no. Dratini wouldn't have evolved from an Eel. If anything it'd most likely be Gorebyss and Huntail; tho they are more based off of Oar Fish. Dratini is based off of Sea Serpents so if anything it'd have evolved from Sea Snakes.

The Pokemon world is a controversial thing to be honest and I've thought about it a bit more. Pure game wise- I doubt there are ANY 'earth animals', as with the new myths surrounding the new legends, it seems even Humans, in pokemon gameverse, were once 'pokemon'.

In manga and anime verse, it seems to hint at a clash of worlds. And it might be possible. there is Dialga, Giratina and Palkia. It could be possible during one of their fights, their power slipped over and caused a violent sundering of another dimension into the pokemon one, causing drastic changes of climate and creatures. It could, in theory, explain why alot of pokemon supposedly went extinct, IE Aerodactyl, Omanyte, etc, and others sprung to life.

Tauros also doesn't seem to be the brightest bulbs around, so maybe they are possible beef cattle?

Tauros = Buffalo. http://www.firstpeople.us/pictures/buffalo/ls/Buffalo.jpg

But Buffalo are now being raised as Cattle, but the only thing is, Tauros are still rare/endangered. Even in Johto, outside of farms, it was hard to catch one, and I doubt you could exactly poach one without being caught and fined heavily.

As for eating Tauros, I just like to think of everyone in the Pokemon world as a vegetarian. They might eat eggs, but only Chansey eggs at that. Milk would come from Miltank, but otherwise a person's diet would come mostly from berries, along with other non-meat foods like wheat that exist in our world.

Fail.

Anime Verse it even had Ash freaking out Professor Oak was going to eat his Krabby. People eat pokemon, get over it. You can make your fanfiction whatever you want, but in reality, it's not all loves and hugs.

While Professor Oak was eating Tofu- I doubt there are as many pokemon lovers as the rest of us, meaning, they like a bit of meat with their potatos, or they only care for pets, everything else is feeder food.

This is why when the French eat Horses, most people get all WTF. Horses aren't food animals, but France and a few other places don't give a damn that there's a thing called Cows.
 

Yamikarasu

Wannabe Hasbeen
Anime Verse it even had Ash freaking out Professor Oak was going to eat his Krabby. People eat pokemon, get over it. You can make your fanfiction whatever you want, but in reality, it's not all loves and hugs.

While Professor Oak was eating Tofu- I doubt there are as many pokemon lovers as the rest of us, meaning, they like a bit of meat with their potatos, or they only care for pets, everything else is feeder food.

This is why when the French eat Horses, most people get all WTF. Horses aren't food animals, but France and a few other places don't give a damn that there's a thing called Cows.

You could argue that Professor Oak was joking, but I don't watch the anime much so I was mostly going off the game canon, in which food is rarely mentioned. Besides, it depends on how intelligent you want to make the Pokemon in your fic anyway. If they were like normal animals, then you could easily justify eating them. But if they were on the same level as humans then eating them would just seem out of the question.

I don't see how that warrants a "fail" when it is a viable opinion. There is more than one way to interpret canon.
 
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