Animated Anti-Heroes Face-Off V3; Champion Of The Champions: Kiritsugu Emiya

[345ash-greninja]

Hi guys, this will be a Face-Off between anti-heroes, a.k.a. anti-heroes of animated TV shows. Here, all kinds of fictional anti-heroes from TV shows that are animated will get to Face-Off against each other.

Let's first make it clear at first the definition of what constitutes an anti-hero:

An antihero or antiheroine is a main character in a story who lacks conventional heroic qualities and attributes such as idealism, courage and morality.

More elaborately:

Anti-Heroes are heroic characters who do not have many noble qualities. More often, these anti-heroes are rude, selfish and violent. Also, they use evil methods to achieve their goals, or as the cliché goes, "the ends justify the means". Despite their bad attitude, these anti-heroes could often save the day and sometimes, they make the series more interesting.

Rules/How it works:

1) All SPPF General, Games and Face-Off rules apply.

2) The candidates (a.k.a. protagonists) in this Face-Off would be determined by nominations from members.

3) Each user can individually can nominate upto 8 animated anti-heroes.

4) Only characters from animated TV shows, are allowed for nominations. Anti-heroes from both Anime and Western Cartoons are allowed for nominations, but characters which are manga exclusive, from games or are from TV shows performed by human actors like won't be counted as nominations.

5) Nominated characters will compete against each other in matchups in this Face-Offs, and matchups will be decided via RNG.

6) The first round of the Face-Off shall begin after about 48 (or above) characters have been nominated.

7) Formats of the first round (and the subsequent rounds) of this face-off will be decided in due time.

8) Have fun.

------------------------------------

My own nominations are:

Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass: Lelouch Of The Rebellion)

Koro-Sensei (Assassination Classroom)

Greed (FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood)

Scar (FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood)

Seto Kaiba (Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters)

Viral (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

Piccolo Jr. (Dragon Ball/Z/Super)

Zuko (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

Spoiler: Nominated characters

Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass: Lelouch Of The Rebellion)

Koro-Sensei (Assassination Classroom)

Greed (FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood)

Scar (FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood)

Seto Kaiba (Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters)

Viral (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

Piccolo Jr. (Dragon Ball/Z/Super)

Zuko (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

Sasuke Uchiha (Naruto)

Sebastian Michaelis (Black Butler)

Sougo Okita (Gintama)

Nobume Imai (Gintama)

Ciel Phantomhive (Black Butler)

Akame (Akame ga Kill)

Homura Akemi (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

Vegeta (Dragon Ball Z/Super)

Kyoko Sakura (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

Kevin (Ed Edd N Eddy)

Lust (FullMetal Alchemist 2003)

Michiru/Sailor Neptune (Sailor Moon S and StarS)

Haruka/Sailor Uranus (Sailor Moon S and StarS)

Nagi (Tenchi Universe)

Kiritsugu Emiya (Fate/Zero)

Guts (Berserk)

Light Yagami (Death Note)

Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)

Illumi Zoldyck [Hunter x Hunter (2011)]

Shinya Kogami (Psycho Pass)

Shogo Makishima (Psycho Pass)

Katsuki Bakugo (My Hero Academia)

Stanley Pines (Gravity Falls)

Broly (Dragon Ball Super)

Alain (Pokémon)

Dimple (Mob Psycho 100)

Ferdinand Braun (Steins;Gate)

Kevin Levin (Ben 10)

Kaito (Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal)

Endeavor (My Hero Academia)

Hachiman Hikigaya (Oregairu)

Reinhard von Lohengramm (Legend of the Galactic Heroes)

Satsuki Kiriyuin (Kill la Kill)

Killua Zoldyck [Hunter x Hunter (2011)]

Hiei (Yu-Yu-Hakusho)

Itachi Uchiha (Naruto)

Satou Kazuma (KonoSuba)

Tanya Von Degurechaff (Youjo Senki)

Shiki Ryuogi (Kara No Kyoukai)

 

[wolf jani]

Sasuke Uchiha (Naruto)
Sebastian Michaelis (Kuroshitsuji)
Sougo Okita (Gintama)
Nobume Imai (Gintama)
Ciel Phantomhive (Kuroshitsuji)
Akame (Akame ga Kill)
I may add more later

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Homura Akemi (PMMM)
Vegeta (Dragon Ball Z/Super)
Kyoko Sakura (PMMM)
Kevin (Ed Edd N Eddy)
Lust (FMA 03)
Michiru/Sailor Neptune (Sailor Moon S and StarS)
Haruka/Sailor Uranus (Sailor Moon S and StarS)
Nagi (Tenchi Universe)

 

[345ash-greninja]

Sasuke Uchiha (Naruto)
L (Death Note)

Hmm, I don't really think that L classifies as an anti-hero TBH. He's basically the good guy who's trying to catch/identify the mass murderer Kira.

 

[wolf jani]

Hmm, I don't really think that L classifies as an anti-hero TBH. He's basically the good guy who's trying to catch/identify the mass murderer Kira.

Ok I will remove him

 

[Akkipeddi]

Kiritsugu Emiya (Fate/Zero)
Guts (Berserk anime)
Light Yagami (Death Note)
Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)
Illumi Zoldyck (Hunter x Hunter)
Shinya Kogami (Psycho Pass)
Shogo Makishima (Psycho Pass)
Katsuki Bakugo (My Hero Academia)

Yes I know we consider Light more of a villain, but look at it, and you see that his intentions are actually good, but he's extremely egoistic and is a Kamidere which makes him lose his sanity towards the end. But he still counts as an anti-hero for what his intentions truly were at the start.

 

[345ash-greninja]

@Akkipeddi

Light's initial intentions might have been good, but as the show progresses he goes from worse to worse from a moral standpoint, turning basically into a full villain. An anti-hero character would befit someone more who shows his/her morally upstanding side now and then alongside his dark and villainous side as well.

Like in case of Lelouch, he does commit several attrocities and purpose in order to achieve his purpose, but his morally good side shows often now and then like when he cares about her sister Nunnally, repents for a moment after Shirley's death, and after using all the dirty and tyrannical means to attain the throne of Britannia, he shows his moral and noble side in the end yet again by ordering Suzaku to kill him in order to dispel all the hatred in people's minds. That's what defines an anti-hero actually, who will have his dark and villainous side and alonside that, will show his morally upstanding side a fair amount of times as well.

Light barely does show his morally good side for the vast majority of the series, he basically continues to do stuff for his own sake, attaining power and becoming the God of the new world, so he arguably classifies more as a villain rather than an anti-hero.

Also if Light does classify as an anti-hero, then how come was he included as a nomination in the Villains Face-Off?

 

[wolf jani]

Lelouch = anti-hero
Light = anti-villain

 

[Genaller]

Light can be argued as both a hero and villain. At the end of the day his actions reduced crime rates by over 70% within 5 years and when you consider the number of people that die or are severely harmed ( both physically and mentally) from violent crimes per year, it overwhelmingly makes up for the number of people he’s killed. Statistically speaking what Light was doing would result in a greater net well-being for humanity (at least according to the show) than any alternative, so it is entirely fair to interpret him as the hero of the story with the ‘anti-‘ coming in by definition since he doesn’t act like a typical hero.


I nominated Light in villains the first time because I was going with the interpretation that he’s the villain; however, he can also be appropriately nominated with the interpretation of being an anti-hero. The moral ambiguity of Death Note is 1 of it’s strongest points ergo there’s no objective answer for who is more ‘good’ or ‘evil’ between Light and L (heck after a certain point their battle became mostly about pride rather than who legitimately held the moral high-ground).

 

[Akkipeddi]

Actually if you think about it, even L isn't that moral (compared to Light he obviously seems more moral). Let's not forget that he kept Misa confined in chains, kept Light in a prison cell, and even Soichiro (granted it was his own wish). Yes it was all to catch Kira, but normally these methods would be considered very extreme, and borderline torture, especially to what he did to Misa

 

[Genaller]

Actually if you think about it, even L isn't that moral (compared to Light he obviously seems more moral). Let's not forget that he kept Misa confined in chains, kept Light in a prison cell, and even Soichiro (granted it was his own wish). Yes it was all to catch Kira, but normally these methods would be considered very extreme, and borderline torture, especially to what he did to Misa

There’s also the extreme surveillance he used in ep 8 (the police officers were throwing a fit about the moral outrage it’d cause if the public found out) and of course let’s not forget enlisting the help of people he knows to be criminals.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Light also ended up killing (or at least attempted to kill) several people who got in his way of becoming the new 'God' of the world, a.k.a. people who proving as an obstacle or threat to him by any means, so nope, whether his actions were doing more good to humanity than bad is quite debatable. More importantly, rather than humanity's well-being, he's later on clearly way more obsessed with power and becoming the 'God' of the new world who dictates everything, which clearly shows that his mindset/intention hardly had any moral ground to show for.

Protagonist/main character as villain is the word which suits like Light much more rather than an anti-hero.

Also L was mostly always dedicated fully to catch the mass-murderer Kira and put an end to all the crimes/murders that were taking place under Kira's reign, he is hardly someone who is morally much questionable.

@Akkipeddi Also pretty sure that the police also dishes out third-degree treatment to several criminals as well to get out important information, so that's not something which would be considered morally questionable.

 

[Akkipeddi]

@345ash-greninja Did you miss our point completely? Of course L was determined to catch Kira, but he used question questionable methods too as mentioned above. So there is the question of L's morality as well. Also, do a quick search, and many sites have Light Yagami listed as an anti-hero. The beauty of Death Note is that Light can be both, either an anti-hero or a villain in one's eyes. There's no right or wrong since the show purposely makes viewers think.

 

[Genaller]

Light also ended up killing (or at least attempted to kill) several people who got in his way of becoming the new 'God' of the world, a.k.a. people who proving as an obstacle or threat to him by any means, so nope, whether his actions were doing more good to humanity than bad is quite debatable.

Actually it objectively would be better for humanity with the acceptance of a single postulate:

- All human life is equal and hence the actions that result in the greatest net benefit to the greatest number of people is the superior action.


The people that Light kills are criminals and law enforcement that actively try to stop him. The people Light saves are the people who would have been harmed by said criminals (killed, raped, mutilated etc...) as well as by other people that might have become criminals if Kira were not acting as a deterrent. The issue is that the former is astronomically lower than the latter. Look up yearly murder and rape statistics and in Kira’s world such crimes were on the rise (‘this world is rotting’) ergo it’s likely that the aggregate yearly rates were even higher than they are in our world pre-Kira.

The debate here would be if an action in the service of benefiting the overwhelming majority is inherently the ‘right’ action; not that Light’s actions didn’t benefit said overwhelming majority.

More importantly, rather than humanity's well-being, he's later on clearly way more obsessed with power and becoming the 'God' of the new world who dictates everything, which clearly shows that his mindset/intention hardly had any moral ground to show for.

What’s clear here is you didn’t pay much attention whilst watching DN. For starters there’s a scene during the Yotsuba arc where Light is assessing the differences in MO between the new kira and the old kira, and asserted that the old kira had far higher standards for who he would and wouldn’t kill (e.g. he wouldn’t kill someone who was truly repentant about their crime or had extenuating circumstances) compared to the new kira. If Light were only in it for the title recognition of being ‘God of the new world’, there would be absolutely no need for such standards.

In addition we’ve been given 2 separate examples that Light’s judgement of the guilt or innocence of a person is superior to that of the entire legal system (or at least that of the Japanese legal system). The primary example is Misa where her parents were murdered right in front of her yet the the killer wasn’t being prosecuted due to lack of evidence. The other example is of a repeated rapist who also wasn’t convicted due to lack of evidence (the guy he killed to prove he was kira to Penber). In this 1 we knly have Light’s word to go on but the narrative never gives any indication that he’s wrong about his assessment here.

Furthermore Light got ticked off at Misa for killing people that had spoken out against Kira meaning he’s okay with people having a negative opinion of him as long as they don’t actively try to catch him.

Finally we have Light talking to Ryuk about being a extremely positive thinker in order to better one’s world and was giving him advice to apply what he’d learnt here to make his own realm better when Light had zero reason to do this.

Yeah his ego, ambition and even malice are entirety there, but that doesn’t diminish the sincerity of his convictions (it’s known as highly complex and nuanced characterization).

Also please note I’m mainly talking about pre- timeskip Light. Post- timeskip Light is an extremely butchered and watered down version of his previous self though heck even he showed some humanity when he didn’t murder Sayu and allowed for a Death Note to be given despite the huge risks that entails (and that ultimately did in fact result in him losing). He rationalizes it as ‘he’ll look more suspicious if she dies because the information of her capture has been kept secret though it would still only at best be speculation without any hard evidence meaning not even nearly as much of a cost as losing a death note to an enemy.

Protagonist/main character as villain is the word which suits like Light much more rather than an anti-hero.

Believing this to be an objective interpretation is objectively wrong. He can be reasonably interpreted as either the hero or villain of the story.

Also L was mostly always dedicated fully to catch the mass-murderer Kira and put an end to all the crimes/murders that were taking place under Kira's reign, he is hardly someone who is morally much questionable.

Enlisting the help of people he knows are criminals (the con man and the hacker woman) is morally questionable no matter how you spin it.


Run your face-off however you want, but know that it’s objectively wrong to deny the plausibility of the interpretation of Light classifying as an anti-hero.

 

[wolf jani]

Please guys. Let's not start this again.

 

[Genaller]

Please guys. Let's not start this again.

Start what? Please do enlighten me. What other members choose to do really shouldn’t be any of your business.

 

[Dragalge]

I want REAL PEOPLE TOO!

Do both animated and real people so Deadpool does not cut you, Terrance!

 

[mehmeh1]

Stanley Pines (Gravity Falls, he's more on the hero side, but his actions can many times be inmoral or especially illegal)
Broly (DB Super)
Alain (Pokémon Strongest Mega Evolution/XY&Z)
Dimple (Mob Psycho 100, though like Stan, he's pretty much strictly on the hero side, but still a bit shady and quite selfish most of the time, so I'm not sure if he counts, but eh)
Ferdinand Braun (Steins;Gate)
Kevin Levin (Ben 10 Alien Force, specifically that series because that's where he transitioned from villain to hero)
Kaito (Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal)
Thanos (Avengers: Infinity War, he's partially animated)
Endeavor (MHA)

 

[GarchompTheAssassin]

Hachiman Hikigaya (Oregairu)

 

[345ash-greninja]

*Guess there isn't much of a point getting into a controversial and questionable topic here, so it's just better to let it go regarding Light*

But regarding L:

@Akkipeddi The police also resorts to several harsh measures, like 3rd degree treatment to suspects and convicts in order to get the truth out in real life, so all things which L did in order to identify Kira honestly won't count as much morally questionable. Also enlisting the help of criminals in order to identify Kira isn't that morally questionable either, it's not like he was helping out the criminals to do crimes or anything like that.

@mehmeh1 Game characters aren't allowed for nominations (I clearly stated it in the OP) so Gladion from Pokemon SM games won't count.