AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Nobody knows, but all the wasted potential with the rivals and nonexistent evil villain team are very glaring cons.
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Anime rivals development
- Thread starter Hanto
- Start date
Sonnas
Well-Known Member
Okay but why were they dropped? Did the writers just couldn’t find anything interesting to do with them?
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Again, no idea.
Unova was simply getting rid of all its good potential for absolutely no reason; a sharp contrast to how entertaining it was in the actual games.
FullmetalJackie
Banned
Maybe they just didn't feel like Ash needed a rival at that point? Once Episode N began Ash's journey in BW was almost over anyways so he didn't need Trip as a rival.
Leonhart
Imagineer
Sonnas said:
I can only assume that since the writers began to focus on other subplots such as the Plasma-dan arc and the Decolora Archipelago mini-arc in the final year of the Best Wishes saga, they just didn't have time to showcase any of the rivals by that point since there was so much other stuff happening.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Well! Nothing's changed at all in the time I've been off the forum! Every thread somehow turns into a Serena thread!
These aren't remotely the same since Torterra used to win as a Turtwig and Grotle whereas Conkeldurr lost at all stages.
I wonder whether that was around the time they found out about B2W2 and changed their whole plan for the BW anime?
He's not a league rival. He met Ash a year before the end of the saga, he appeared as early as the first year (not with Ash, but still), and had other arcs besides the league. League rivals are people who debut right before the league (or at the league) only for the purpose of having a "familiar" face during the league arcs, so that it's not just a bunch of randos. League rivals are Ritchie, Harrison, Morrison, Tyson, Solidad, Tobias, Cameron, Virgil.
Sawyer: debuted in XY64
Nini: debuted in XY50
Alain: debuted in SME1
Literally every rival debuted LESS than halfway into the series unless you count Amelia.
Also how is Alain forgettable?
in the series premiere, Pikachu failed to win a battle against them.
Interesting. I only got that vibe between Zoey and Dawn not Miette and Serena. I will admit though that one part I agree with you on is that I never thought Miette liked Ash and was doing it only to tease Serena, so maybe you're right.
um, have her BEAT Serena?
No, I think with such a long series (4 years) DP was fine to have both Kenny and Ursula and develop them separately. They played different roles.
First of all, I want to thank you for rephrasing @Hanto's OP into being "since DP" rather than "since AG/DP". Not sure why they included AG, considering that Ash had NO rivals. I know May's rivals that generation were great, but Dawn's were arguably better in the next generation, so even if both gym and contest rivals were being considered, I would have still said just since DP.
I agree with you partially when you're comparing it to DP, but that's the thing: you're comparing it to DP, the best series. Obviously everything is going to seem worse. So I actually lean closer to what @Apslup says and think that Sawyer and Alain can be considered the other two good rivals the show has produced for Ash outside of Paul, even if they aren't up to par with Paul, they are still better than Ash's other rivals.
I'm not sure how you can say that Sawyer and Alain rarely battled Ash when Sawyer battled him four times and Alain three times.
Overall, I would say that it's not specifically "post-DP" but mainly BW and SM, and XY kind of gets thrown in there because it was worse than DP, but it wasn't actually bad in terms of its rivals. While DP was definitely the best generation of rivals for both Ash and the girl, I would say that AG was the second-best generation for the girl's rivals and XY was the second-best generation for Ash's rivals.
In BW they went for quantity over quality, which failed, but quantity isn't always a bad thing. DP had Paul, Barry, Conway, Nando, Kenny, Zoey, Ursula, and Jessilina and handled them well. So it was more of a BW issue rather than quantity over quality. And in SM I think they've had fewer/barely any, rivals because of how many main cast members there are. Hopefully, it will just be an experimentation generation, as it seems that a lot of the odd-numbered generations have been, and next gen will be lit
What does billed mean? (not the definition of the word, btw, which I know, like, what I'm asking is, what does it mean in terms of this show)
what drama? post-match drama isn't real drama lol. It was never even explained how she beat Amelia
Agreed, but I wonder in some ways whether with Tobias they subverted this issue by basically admitting: "we can't write good stories for league rivals so let's just not even try"
It wasn't about the clothes but about being broadcast on Kalos national TV.
Excuse me? How are trevor and Tierno better rivals than Gary, Drew, Harley, Barry, Stephan, Kenny, Ursula, Shauna, and Miette? And how does Zoey feel like not a rival?
yeah exactly the most confusing was when Amelia lost in her own hometown? like ???????????????
Sawyer was the main rival. He battled Ash more times than Alain did, he started battling Ash earlier in the saga, and he beat Ash before the league only for Ash to reverse that in the league.
I'm ready for Marnie.
In XY&Z, just like BW!S2N, the villain team arc finishes after the league. Nevertheless, they were able to incorporate the rivals.
These aren't remotely the same since Torterra used to win as a Turtwig and Grotle whereas Conkeldurr lost at all stages.
I wonder whether that was around the time they found out about B2W2 and changed their whole plan for the BW anime?
He's not a league rival. He met Ash a year before the end of the saga, he appeared as early as the first year (not with Ash, but still), and had other arcs besides the league. League rivals are people who debut right before the league (or at the league) only for the purpose of having a "familiar" face during the league arcs, so that it's not just a bunch of randos. League rivals are Ritchie, Harrison, Morrison, Tyson, Solidad, Tobias, Cameron, Virgil.
Sawyer: debuted in XY64
Nini: debuted in XY50
Alain: debuted in SME1
Literally every rival debuted LESS than halfway into the series unless you count Amelia.
Also how is Alain forgettable?
in the series premiere, Pikachu failed to win a battle against them.
Interesting. I only got that vibe between Zoey and Dawn not Miette and Serena. I will admit though that one part I agree with you on is that I never thought Miette liked Ash and was doing it only to tease Serena, so maybe you're right.
um, have her BEAT Serena?
No, I think with such a long series (4 years) DP was fine to have both Kenny and Ursula and develop them separately. They played different roles.
First of all, I want to thank you for rephrasing @Hanto's OP into being "since DP" rather than "since AG/DP". Not sure why they included AG, considering that Ash had NO rivals. I know May's rivals that generation were great, but Dawn's were arguably better in the next generation, so even if both gym and contest rivals were being considered, I would have still said just since DP.
I agree with you partially when you're comparing it to DP, but that's the thing: you're comparing it to DP, the best series. Obviously everything is going to seem worse. So I actually lean closer to what @Apslup says and think that Sawyer and Alain can be considered the other two good rivals the show has produced for Ash outside of Paul, even if they aren't up to par with Paul, they are still better than Ash's other rivals.
I'm not sure how you can say that Sawyer and Alain rarely battled Ash when Sawyer battled him four times and Alain three times.
Overall, I would say that it's not specifically "post-DP" but mainly BW and SM, and XY kind of gets thrown in there because it was worse than DP, but it wasn't actually bad in terms of its rivals. While DP was definitely the best generation of rivals for both Ash and the girl, I would say that AG was the second-best generation for the girl's rivals and XY was the second-best generation for Ash's rivals.
In BW they went for quantity over quality, which failed, but quantity isn't always a bad thing. DP had Paul, Barry, Conway, Nando, Kenny, Zoey, Ursula, and Jessilina and handled them well. So it was more of a BW issue rather than quantity over quality. And in SM I think they've had fewer/barely any, rivals because of how many main cast members there are. Hopefully, it will just be an experimentation generation, as it seems that a lot of the odd-numbered generations have been, and next gen will be lit
What does billed mean? (not the definition of the word, btw, which I know, like, what I'm asking is, what does it mean in terms of this show)
what drama? post-match drama isn't real drama lol. It was never even explained how she beat Amelia
Agreed, but I wonder in some ways whether with Tobias they subverted this issue by basically admitting: "we can't write good stories for league rivals so let's just not even try"
It wasn't about the clothes but about being broadcast on Kalos national TV.
Excuse me? How are trevor and Tierno better rivals than Gary, Drew, Harley, Barry, Stephan, Kenny, Ursula, Shauna, and Miette? And how does Zoey feel like not a rival?
yeah exactly the most confusing was when Amelia lost in her own hometown? like ???????????????
Sawyer was the main rival. He battled Ash more times than Alain did, he started battling Ash earlier in the saga, and he beat Ash before the league only for Ash to reverse that in the league.
I'm ready for Marnie.
In XY&Z, just like BW!S2N, the villain team arc finishes after the league. Nevertheless, they were able to incorporate the rivals.
Sham
The Guardian of War
@LilligantLewis compare that to Drew debuting in episode 33, Zoey debuting in episode 11, Nando debuting in episode 4, Kenny debuting in episode 26, Gladion debuting in episode 27, Georgia debuting in episode 27, Trip debuting in episode 1, Burgundy debuting in episode 19, Bianca debuting in episode 13, Luke debuting in episode 37 and Paul debuting in episode 2. I’m excluding league/contest rivals and Harley since although debuting late he was May’s predominate rival in Kanto. It took fifty episodes or more to debut Sawyer, Nene, Aria and Alain to appear. Aria had flashbacks and small cameos but she didn’t physically meet Serena until episode 64. Also I’m strictly speaking about Alain’s and Ash’s rivalry starting when they physically met each other. You can’t tell me most of XY’s rival were not introduced late. Outliners include Hau, Cameron and Ursula.
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Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
I'm hoping Bede and Marnie are introduced early in the SwSh series and I hope both are competent battlers.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
mainly MARNIE
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Not good. The evil team is just a bunch of losers rooting for a stoic girl who doesn't seem to mind them much, and said girl uses a Pikaclone. And the main theme of the region is giant battles.
We're seeing a potential second comical SM season except with a league flavor.
We're seeing a potential second comical SM season except with a league flavor.
TheWanderingMist
Paladin of the Snow Queen
What if instead of remaining incompetent like Team Skull, they slowly become more and more of a threat and are the only evil team in the region, and all the suspicions people have about the League runners are just red herrings?
Leonhart
Imagineer
LilligantLewis said:
It's very difficult to view Shota as Satoshi's main rival in Kalos given that he appeared so late in the saga. At least Alain had three special episodes prior to his appearance in the main anime, so that could've been taken as foreshadowing for his eventual encounter and rivalry with Satoshi. But Shota was just some kid who befriended Satoshi and battled him a few times: he was like the Jun of XY&Z to me.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Fair enough. Ash and Sawyer did battle four times before the league though, which is quite a lot imo. I don't have exact stats on Ash's other rivalries and how many battles happened before the league, but four has to be up there.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Marnie's edgy. It's the kind of rival post-BW Ash always needs...for some reason.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
You mean third. Ash had Alain as the first edgy rival of the string.
Sham
The Guardian of War
Alain didn’t really strike me as edgy; mostly just brooding and a hero complex but I could see it.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Dressed in dark clothing (for whatever reason coughedgycough) from his lab getup? Check.
Anti-social with irrational ideas tossed in for good measure? Check.
Uses a whole bunch of serious-looking Pokemon (except the strange Unfezant)? Check.
Likes growling like a madman? Check.
Screws everyone in battle real good without a single hint of emotion? Check.
Is completely immune to comedic antics and can only look the other way? Check.
Brushes everyone off because they're low in his list of priorities except a pushy girl and a guy who owns a super legendary form he constantly burned to death? Check.
Boss has a lion's mane fused to hair and beard and wears dark clothing as well? Check.
Apparently modeled after Anakin Skywalker, the epitome of edginess? Check.
Yes, he brooded, but he was edgy as ****.