1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Anyone else notice these last couple years the anime has broken trends? (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by GMax Helios, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    1. Well, yes SM has good animation but battles scenes are not that great compared to XY and DP has better direction and cinematography. XY has better choreography, freer camera angels and no static background. SM had stiffer battles scenes and static is back at some points. Not to mention SM had reused animation (Melmetal's DIB for example),while XY had it way way less.
    3. I was talking about XY vs SM like which is better not scenes but yes SM had much fluffier or much loose animation than XY like it's made in flash + hand drawn while XY is made more in hand drawn and CGI like. When it comes non battles probably animation is better in flash, but during battles, XY's better.
    EmeraldArcanine likes this.
  2. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    Again, you can't said that XY has better animation than SM during the battles if SM has basically the same number of sakuga scenes in Sakugabooru but with a smaller number of battles during their episodes. Stop acting like SM was considerably worse than XY during battles, because it isn't true. In the worst case for SM, it's as good as XY during the battles.

    Idk about original ideas, but yeah, i think DP was better in execution and strategy than SM.
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  3. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    It has better animation during battles than SM. If you watch a SM battle and XY battle you would understand. Look at everything from XY vs SM battle so you would understand. Camera angels, no static background much freer and fluid animation than SM.

    Only a few SM battles are as good as XY battles everything considered.
    EmeraldArcanine likes this.
  4. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    I saw both series, and I can say that there isn't much difference in the battles, especially when the movements have a more fluid animation in SM like the trainers actions
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  5. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Magikazam!"

    Hell, he doesn't turn his hat anymore.
  6. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    You can do the same with Ash vs Kukui (4 episodes) and Ash vs Saywer / Ash vs Alain (4 episodes), and Ash vs Kukui was better than both battles
  7. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    In terms of animation,and everything I mentioned(camera angels, freer animation fluid) it's not, it is better than most of XY fights though but those two, it's not.Those two fights are peak when it comes to animation of Pokemon aka visual masterpieces so far.
    In terms of epicness and action, I find it better than Ash vs Sawyer because of double knock out, but Ash vs Alain is better and Ash vs Paul is the best in terms on strategy, epicness( animation is worse than SM and XY but everything considered it's the best battle,IMO).
  8. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Magikazam!"

    I guess Ash not turning his hat back is also a broken trend.
  9. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix justice for johto

    And him not wearing gloves anymore too
  10. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    In the "Which was your favorite fight in the pokemon anime of the decade?" Ash vs Kukui has 16 mentions and Ash vs Paul has 15 mentions. Stop acting like if everything considered the last one the best battle, because both battles were extremely good and better than both Ash vs Sawyer and Ash vs Alain.
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  11. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    So what if Ash vs Kukui is mentioned 16 times? Lmao, that doesn't mean Ash vs Kukui is better than Paul vs Ash. On contrary, Ash vs Paul was deemed the best Pokemon battle ever from strategy, epicness, background of characters, cinematography of a fight etc. Same way Sinnoh league is deemed the best by majority.
    Better than Ash vs Alain. I disagree with Ash vs Kukui being better than Ash vs Alain. Ash vs Alain is for me second best because it's two good characters with certain wills( Ash to become the best and Alain to win to help Chespin) and animation, cinematography, how battle was fluid, better camera angels) seal fate for me.

    Ash vs Sawyer is only worse than Kukui battle because of how rushed some battles are like Noivern vs Salamence and Goodra vs Slurpuff, if those two battles were better, then it'd be Ash vs Sawyer > Ash vs Kukui. Ash vs Kukui so far is for me third best battle in anime.
    brtnvm likes this.
  12. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    I mean, if people mentioned Ash vs Kukui basically the same number of times than Ash vs Paul is because they liked both battles, and both was awesome battles. Ash vs Paul has more strategy but less epicness against the 2 climax of Ash vs Kukui (Incineroar vs Torracat and Pikachu vs Tapu Koko), the rivalrity between Ash vs Paul is as good as the father-son relationship between Ash vs Kukui, Ash vs Kukui has a better animation than Ash vs Paul and both battles used Type: Wild during the true climax of the battle.
    Ash vs Alain is also a good battle but Alain is basically Tobias but with more backstory and even with the battle was much more close, people was satisfying with Ash vs Tobias because Ash defeated 2 legendaries, unlike Ash vs Alain
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  13. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    Well yeah, Ash vs Kukui is pretty awesome battle but for me Ash vs Paul and Ash VS Alain were better consider everything.
    I disagree that Ash vs Paul has less epicness. I mean, Gliscor vs Drapion, Electivire vs Infernape and Pikachu, Electivire vs Infernape then entire Paul's strategy and Ash's counter of it and his own strategy are all epic moments in the fight.
    I disagree that father-son relationship is as good as dark rivalry between two trainers. Notice I say dark. Ash and Kukui rivalry where they ( I don't wanna say it; so I am gonna say pat each other backs) is as good Ash and Sawyer rivalry they they also do it. But rivalry where rival is edgy and total opposite of Ash is much better. We can see a "villain" and not just Ash admirers. That's why I hope to see villain rival in PM. Trip was snubbed.
  14. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    The only admirer Ash's rival was Sawyer and i like this type of rivalry much more than "dark" rivalry because Ash is a much more experience than most of his rivals during the series, but i don't said Ash vs Sawyer is better than Ash vs Paul for that
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  15. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    Not only Ash admirers but ones who are nice to Ash like Kukui.Assholes are much better than nice guys because rivalry would be much better.
    Rivals like Paul could've underwent same procedure like Ash did( like travelling to other regions).. like Paul did.
  16. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    Well yeah, but of the main rivals, only Gary and Paul travelling to other regions (apparently)
  17. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Magikazam!"

    XY Ash could start his own fanclub with a bunch of characters in there, really. Even Alain, who would probably screw Sawyer for president status.
  18. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    Lmao this is hilarious. Argumentum ad populum means jack **** when you're measuring quality. Am I seriously seeing people using # of clips on a website and # of mentions and likes a battle gets as a barometer of quality?

    What has critical analysis come to when the most popular thing or the most " amount " of thing is now synonymous with a better quality product lmao. It would be like me saying XY/XYZ is better than SM cause more people gave it a higher rating on anime sites or that the original series is better because more people watched it

    WTF is this argument?
  19. RafaSceptile

    RafaSceptile Well-Known Member

    He said that eveyone have Ash vs Paul as the best battle in the Pokémon anime, and that's entirely false because Ash vs Paul was as mentioned as Ash vs Kukui in the vote about the best battle of the 2010s.
    mehmeh1 and SerGoldenhandtheJust like this.
  20. J Bouken

    J Bouken Active Member

    They had "trends" before because it made structuring the show super easy. It simplifies production when you have a bunch of templates and can count on the games being the same every generation. Unfortunately, this method leads to monotony and homogeneity, and at some point someone at OLM seemed to realise this. My own theory is that BW was such a mess that it prompted an internal review of their processes, which created a fertile environment for a new director to come in and really do what he wanted. Some of the usual trends continued in XY because it was still broadly the same show, whereas SM changed things in such a fundamental way most of the old templates became unusable. Now we have PM2019 which has once again changed things.

    It's a good thing. There are certainly misses and questionable decisions but I appreciate the attempts at doing some more creative than another gym challenge. In a lot of ways, the anime no longer being beholden to the games is liberating for it. I feel more enthusiastic about Pokemon's future now because even if the current season struggles, I at least know the next series is going to be something different.


    @RafaSceptile I'm happy you appreciate SM's animation, but I think the point you might be missing here is that good battles are more than just good animation. You can certainly find examples of good battle animation in SM, but when people say it's not as good as XY, they're talking more about the writing, choreography, and the overall production, and not just the raw visuals. XY was strong in this department, while SM was very selective (to put it nicely) about which battles it wanted to look good.

    The key feature of XY's battles was the creation of a CG, 3D space. This allowed them to no longer worry about keeping backgrounds consistent when they changed the camera angle, which broadened their options when it came to camerawork. So instead of worrying about how a gym might look different during a sidescrolling shot vs an aerial shot, they could pan the camera around and simply show the 3D assets from different angles. This then allowed them to animate the 2D characters (principally, the Pokemon) with a lot of dynamic movements that weren't possible before. You can especially see this during aerial battles and Serena's showcases.

    You can find examples of this in SM as well (the final part of Ash vs Kukui, for example), but SM returned to the pre-XY style of sticking to a 2D space. This was likely because making great character animation and great battles in a 3D space was too labour intensive, so they scaled production on battles back to prioritise what they felt suited SM's tone more. This is evident when you watch the show, and I don't think it's an insult when people point this out.

    You're not, because I do too. Though I should stress that I like it because I like rounder, looser anime designs more than angular, rigid designs, so SM's art shift was right up my alley. I'm more interested in how characters move in a scene than I am by how on model they are or attractive their designs are.

    I get the resistance to it because Ash's appearance is integral to people's impression of the character. So when his look changes so abruptly, that association disappears and it's like he's a whole new character. In general, Pokemon's look was so consistent (for better and worse) that fans were conditioned into expecting it'll always be the same, when in reality change will happen at some point.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020

Share This Page