• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Anyone else think that the Ash vs Alain Kalos League Final was the best animated 6v6 battle?

mehmeh1

SOBA MASK
The first part of the battle is entirely key animated by Iwane Masa'aki (who did all of the key animation for DP #187-188) with the storyboard and episode direction by Asada Yuuji (Iwane's usual episode director). Part Two was storyboarded and directed by Iijima Masakatsu with Nishiya Yasushi and Koyama Tomohiro as his animation supervisors. The good stuff was by Nishiya. Iwane definitely outdid himself considering how much new animation was used in the episode. I think Oohashi Aito's take on Satoshi versus Shouta two episodes prior was better than Nishiya's episode but it was still a really good episode. I'm looking forward to the staff rotation for the Alola League because I think we're in for something nuts now that the series has access to even more good animators than during XY.
or.......we end up with noriko ito for the most important match and iwane and ohashi do fillers right before the league
 

Kuzehiko

Well-Known Member
To be completely honest, I wasn't even impressed on how the Ash vs Alain fight in the Kalos league was animated. I consider Ash vs Sawyer to be a way better and probably the best animated 6vs6 fight ever in the Pokemon anime.
 
To be completely honest, I wasn't even impressed on how the Ash vs Alain fight in the Kalos league was animated. I consider Ash vs Sawyer to be a way better and probably the best animated 6vs6 fight ever in the Pokemon anime.
AG vs MS probably is equal or better than AG vs MCX but I found that overall the latter's 6v6 was much better
 

Hammad80

Active Member
if only goodra had learned a new move that went with his battle style well..I could see him learning either sludge wave or flamethrower to help him more in certain situations over ice beam
I just wish it’d won against bisharp. They should have ended it at Goodra using bide- it would have been perfect if they did.
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
The Shin'ou and Kalos Leagues had the production staff bend over backward to ensure the quality of the main battles so I don't expect less than two good episodes for the League, one of which will be an Iwane episode and the other an Oohashi Aito episode. Depending on how close to the end of the series the Alola League takes place it's possible for Yasuda, Yamazaki and Nishiya to also be heavily involved.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
The Shin'ou and Kalos Leagues had the production staff bend over backward to ensure the quality of the main battles so I don't expect less than two good episodes for the League, one of which will be an Iwane episode and the other an Oohashi Aito episode. Depending on how close to the end of the series the Alola League takes place it's possible for Yasuda, Yamazaki and Nishiya to also be heavily involved.
You realize this is a series where battles aren't the main focus, right? The most complex battle we've had has been Ash vs. Olivia...over 60 episodes ago. For really tense animation, Ash vs. Misty, 50 episodes ago. I think hoping for fantastic battles at this League is something one had best curb their expectations for.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
The Shin'ou and Kalos Leagues had the production staff bend over backward to ensure the quality of the main battles so I don't expect less than two good episodes for the League, one of which will be an Iwane episode and the other an Oohashi Aito episode. Depending on how close to the end of the series the Alola League takes place it's possible for Yasuda, Yamazaki and Nishiya to also be heavily involved.
I expect the Alola League to go the same as the Unova League, otherwise known as absolute trash.
 

GarchompChain

Well-Known Member
If Ash vs Paul SL is Atsuhiro Tomioka’s magnum opus, then Ash vs Alain KL is Shinzo Fujita’s magnum opus.

I think this battle is especially underrated in how well it was narratively built up throughout the league (in particular XYZ 32 and 36) though since we’re talking visual quality this battle was practically perfect... except for the final scene. MC-X had 1 of the most half-hearted staggers I’ve ever seen in the show and did a horrible job of “selling” the match after it was over (had no visible bruises and showed no sign of exhaustion whatsoever). Compare that to Ash’s Infernape who couldn’t even stand with its own power after the match with Paul; that’s how you sell! I honestly think the animators didn’t have their hearts in it for that scene because of how upset they were that Ash lost (we know that when the episode aired several animators complained about the outcome).

The move interactions we got in MC-X vs A-G were Flamethrower vs Double Team, Dragon Claw vs Water Shuriken, Dragon Claw vs Aerial Ace, Flamethrower vs Cut, Blast Burn vs Water Shuriken, Dragon Claw vs Cut, Thunder Punch vs Water Shuriken (this was my favorite) and Final Blast Burn vs Giant Water Shuriken. I think the match should’ve gone longer to give it a more drawn out feel with additional move interactions like Thunder Punch vs Cut and Thunder Punch vs Aerial Ace. In addition to this if MC-X had properly sold how grueling the match was then honestly I’d have put Ash vs Alain KL on the same pedestal as Ash vs Paul SL.

As far as a comparison to Ash vs Sawyer goes the vs Alain “non-(Ace vs Ace)” battles were hands down superior though A-G vs MS was the superior climax and quite frankly the GOAT 1 vs 1 in terms of pure visual quality eventhough A-G vs MC-X had more of a “big fight feel” to it. I know I’m being critical of it, but that’s only because I think MC-X vs A-G had significant room for improvement despite how great it was.
Did the animators really complain? Why did the writers decide this outcome then?

The animation was definitely great at this league. The lack of battles and the ending just make it a Unova level league.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Did the animators really complain? Why did the writers decide this outcome then?

The animation was definitely great at this league. The lack of battles and the ending just make it a Unova level league.
This league is not even close to a Unova-level league. The last 2 battles are two of the greatest battles in the history of the show. Conversely, Unova was the first league since Indigo to feature NO actual 6on6 battles (Cameron was 6on5), had only one good battle (Ash vs. Stephan), and that good battle doesn't even rank amongst the top tier of 3on3 battles in the history of the show.
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
Did the animators really complain? Why did the writers decide this outcome then?

The animation was definitely great at this league. The lack of battles and the ending just make it a Unova level league.
Nobody's complained that I've heard of. Series Director Sutou Norihiko and Series Composer Tomioka Atsuhiro and Episode Writer Fujita Shinzou probably decided the Kotetsu battle's outcome as a joke. Satoshi isn't allowed to win and he's spent the entire series making dumb decisions in his battles so having him lose like he did was in-character and a pretty hilarious way for the League to end.
 

mehmeh1

SOBA MASK
Nobody's complained that I've heard of. Series Director Sutou Norihiko and Series Composer Tomioka Atsuhiro and Episode Writer Fujita Shinzou probably decided the Kotetsu battle's outcome as a joke. Satoshi isn't allowed to win and he's spent the entire series making dumb decisions in his battles so having him lose like he did was in-character and a pretty hilarious way for the League to end.
pretty sure garchompchain was referring to ash vs alain
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Did the animators really complain? Why did the writers decide this outcome then?

The animation was definitely great at this league. The lack of battles and the ending just make it a Unova level league.
Yeah when XYZ 38 aired there were members of the animation staff complaining about it on twitter. My main point was that it didn’t seem like the animators put effort into the final scene of Ash vs Alain where MC-X staggers and A-G faints and then being upset about the result could be a possible explanation.
 

Kintaro

Banned
I do remember people saying Iwane said on his twitter, "I don't think the main protagonist losing all the time is a good idea" after the Kalos league ended. But I don't know if that's really true or someone just made it up and spread it online. You can probably dig through Iwane's tweets from 2016 to see if it's real.
 

AuraChannelerChris

It's potion time!
I do remember people saying Iwane said on his twitter, "I don't think the main protagonist losing all the time is a good idea" after the Kalos league ended. But I don't know if that's really true or someone just made it up and spread it online. You can probably dig through Iwane's tweets from 2016 to see if it's real.
I'm never getting my hopes up during this saga in particular; the saga that hasn't made Ash look like he deserves to win this league when he had two perfect chances in the past.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Top