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Are Ash's "Weak" Pokemon Really At Fault?

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Nacreous

Fire trainer
Pokemon win,lose...just like in the games.Just because some of them are really strong doesn't mean they'll always win>.>
 

Cazak

When Wings Fly High
Thunderblade has good points. While we do call ash's poke'mon weak, it is because of ash's failed strategy. I guess that every poke'mon is powerful in its own way.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
The problem with Ash and Torterra was that Ash is known for his head on speedy attacks. Even with bulkier pokemon like Snorlax he uses this strategy. Ash couldn't grasp that Torterra didn't have the legs to actually dodge effectively. On top of that knowing Torterra's limits Ash still choose to use Rock Climb to increase Torterra's speed and go for a head on attack. But It gave Drapion the advantage to use its tail to hold off Torterra.

In such a case though it seems as if Rock Climb was unnecessary to learn except that it did give Grotle and Torterra a boost in speed. .

Other than plot power and the writers, its mostly Ash's fault that Torterra is considered weak. Torterra would have come of stronger if Ash choose to go for long range attacks like energy ball and leaf storm.

I think the writers were a little screwed here. I mean Torterra's attack stat is its highest stat in the games (followed by defence), so I can easily see how the problem is loading it with ranged attacks, perhaps they wanted to give it a physical attack to show that its main stat isn't being ignored.

However the problem with that of course is Torterra's speed isn't all that great. Then again Turtwig is faster simply because it is smaller.

They then had to load Torterra with Leaf Storm, and I actually disagreed with that (because it wasn't a ground type move, of course the only real ground type move it could've learned was earth power and we know why Torterra didn't learn that, damn rocket ship evolution). Seed Bomb, is like the physical version of energy ball, had Torterra knew that then it might've been able to show how truly powerful it is and actually might've let Torterra beat Volkner's Electivire.

But then again that whole rock climb has a serious flaw, and Ash can't seem to realize that using rock climb is actually idiotic considering the opponent will just counter attack with ease.

I question the writers giving Pokemon moves if they aren't going to be all that useful in some way (powerful moves are an exception obviously, but I'm talking about weak moves). Like I said before what purpose did giving Buizel sonicboom, I know Buizel is one of the few that can learn it but it did jack squat to any Pokemon Ash battled against. Wake's Quagsire, sonic boom hit like three times and it didn't even cause Quagsire to flinch. And I also question status moves that aren't effective at all like Synthesis. I mean Bulbasaur's leech seed was absolutely perfect in strategy, however none of Ash's Pokemon's other possible status moves are all that effective.
 

pokemonloverXD

Ash's fangirl
For some reason I think none of them are at fault. It's the writers.

Yes, true, writers are ones at fault, if they had cared, Ash's "weak" Pokemon wouldn't have been "weak"
 

poizonsting

Pokemon master
I don't really get your point of what the fandom generally agree on Ash's "strong" Pokemon. Just because they're considered to be "strong" doesn't mean they all have to be flawless and have 100% win record. Otherwise the fandom would expect Ash to use those certain Pokemon in every single battle so he could win, but that's not the case. Yeah I agree some of Ash's Pokemon suffered defeats because of Ash's fail strategy or rookie mistakes, but that doesn't render them as weak or soil their achievements in any way.

On the other hand, Ash's Pokemon that are considered to be "weak" could have shone given the opportunities, right strategy, and more screentime. In any case, none of his Pokemon are at fault. Blame the writers.
 

aipomadvanceshipper

Well-Known Member
Well, a Pokemon is only as strong as its trainer...The Pokemon aren't at fault, it's the trainer.....
Ash doesn't think his moves through, he attacks thinking force and strenght are all that needs to win but its not. Sometimes he lacks strategy, he is creative with his moves i'll give him that, i mean c'mon in the appeal round of the Wallace Cup he made higher then May, Dawn and Zoey.... but he doesn't know how to use his Pokemon to there full potential. I find Ash's Pokemon, with the exception of Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile and Infernape were all stronger before he caught them.
 

TicoPokemonMaster

Well-Known Member
But then again that whole rock climb has a serious flaw, and Ash can't seem to realize that using rock climb is actually idiotic considering the opponent will just counter attack with ease.

.

That flaw could have been fix if rock climb was used in the way it was shown in the first episode it was learned. Grotle climbed the rock wall on its side. Had Ash made Torterra go up on the sides rather than head on I think that it would have allowed for a surpise attack.
 

KibaLG8

Well-Known Member since the DP Series.
I was going to say The past is over with and you should just move on but you gotta wonder some things:

1. Why was Totodile captured? It had a horrible battle recording, only winning 2 battle and losing in like 5, no character development really, Misty should have just won the battle and kept it.

2. Muk was different, since it was pure Poison but a little more battle screentime wouldn't hurt.

3. Torkoal had good potential, only beat a Slakoth, Shiftry, tied to a Tropius lost to a Manectric, Golduck, Steelix, Registeel, and Darkrai. Though it proved its strength against Registeel, bravo Torkoal.:)

4. Then there's Torterra. Started off well As Turtwig but after its win against Reggie's Bibarel.... Turtwig went downhill. Losing to Paul twice more, against Honchkrow. Even as a Grotle it was no match, defeated Candice's Sneasel, lost to Palmer's Rhyperior...... evolved into Torterra, lost to Bertha's Hippowdon, Volkner's Electivire, and Paul's Drapion. I gotta wonder where the writers were going with this. Were they just really stupid this saga?
 

Cazak

When Wings Fly High
I am staring to think that the writers deliberately made Torterra the fall guy because they didn't want two powerful Torterras. Paul's starter must undoubtedly be his most powerful poke'mon, and if Ash's Torterra was also shown to be a powerhouse, it might've complicated some things. Such as it would lead to a Torterra vs Torterra battle in the league, and no matter which Torterra won, it would've caused lots of criticism. So maybe they thought, just make him a loser from the start.
 

hell

Banned
KibaLG8,You are a liar,because Totodile captured was the best thing ever,it had a great battle record and it didn't lose 5 battles mister retard lying,Misty didn't need to have Totodile since he fits Ash alot better then Misty and Totodile had good battle like maybe 4,it had great development,Torkoal didn't really put up that much of a fight against Registeel and it lost in a few seconds,Charizard would have done a much better job against Registeel then Torkoal.
 

Nightlingbolt

AKA Nightlingbolt
IGNORING THE OBVIOUS "PLOT POWER" EXCUSE, A LOT OF THESE EXAMPLES CAN BE RATIONALIZED QUITE EASILY.

Now that I have your attention, Squirtle was one of Ash's original Pokemon, and therefore was bound to be one of the strongest he had access to at the time. Now, obviously, Electric beats Water every day of the week, but in its work with the Squirtle Squad, it puts its life in real danger every day, as opposed to relatively tame Pokemon battles. Now, which would Squirtle have a better chance of surviving: a real live fire, or a Pokemon's Thunder? Compared to the former, the latter was probably nothing.

As for Cyndaquil, there's no denying Gym Pokemon are strong, but any Pokemon that's competing in a freaking League is stronger still. Besides, A: Magneton primarily used Electric-type attacks, and B: Team Rocket cheats. It's in the job description.

Charizard would definitely have beaten Dusclops if Ash wasn't stupid enough to try Seismic Toss on a Ghost-type.

Buizel got lucky with the rain activating Swift Swim. That's all I have to say about that, other than I will concede that it was a bit too convenient.

While I agree sending out Noctowl against a Steelix was a boneheaded move, Ash has always been a bit of a maverick when it comes to type matchups. It did defeat two of Conway's Pokemon, so I'm pretty satisfied with it.

So Taillow lost a couple battles. It was still relatively new, and in its base form to boot, so I can forgive that.

My point? While wins and losses may be up to the writers, ultimately, there's a reason for each one that has significance in the development of a Pokemon's character. Calling "Plotkai" all the time is just ignorant. Some would say so is making sense of a kids' show, but I like to think the writers know what they're doing battle-wise.

I am staring to think that the writers deliberately made Torterra the fall guy because they didn't want two powerful Torterras. Paul's starter must undoubtedly be his most powerful poke'mon, and if Ash's Torterra was also shown to be a powerhouse, it might've complicated some things. Such as it would lead to a Torterra vs Torterra battle in the league, and no matter which Torterra won, it would've caused lots of criticism. So maybe they thought, just make him a loser from the start.

I just want to mention I was against Grotle evolving from the start. I would've loved to see it defeat Paul's Torterra in the League and maybe evolve upon getting that victory, but there's no changing the past.
 
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J-boogie200

Well-Known Member
This thread is brillaint, and long overdue! I don't believe they're at fault. Why? Because, those who the writers want to shine, shine. Those who they don't, don't. However, each pokemon by Ash holds a purpose, and isn't useless. If they were useless, they wouldn't be Ash pokemon because he never considers his pokemon useless.
 
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