Are edited TR vs TP episodes a possibility with the new opening?

[AgentPierce]

I hate to say it but i really can't get over the retconning/editing of the TR vs TP situation.

The plot-hole left behind is annoying, but this is the only way we can get the episode. Dogasu, whom I usually don't care for at all, actually summed it up perfectly:

But why even retcon them at all? Why not just air them as-is with a disclaimer telling kids that this is an episode airing out-of-order? That should be enough, right?

The thing is...television networks never do this. Ever. Can any of you guys think of a single instance of a Japanese TV station airing an episode of a serialized children's program out of order, and then admitting it up front? How about any Western TV stations?

You can't, because nobody does that.

Though, I'm not entirely sure he's correct that it would have been impossible for TV Tokyo to just air it out of order and admit to it. I think the problem was with how TPCI is affected.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

The plot-hole left behind is annoying, but this is the only way we can get the episode. Dogasu, whom I usually don't care for at all, actually summed it up perfectly:



Though, I'm not entirely sure he's correct that it would have been impossible for TV Tokyo to just air it out of order and admit to it. I think the problem was with how TPCI is affected.

Hmm i see what he's trying to say, but i really believe if TV Tokyo (or the writers) actually made a feasable attempt at making an exception of explaining why the episodes were airing out of place it could be done. As i've said and plenty of other people have said, a preview at the beginning just simply stating where they were supposed to place (leaving out an disaster information) would have worked fine.

Eh, we've seen what they chose to do.

 

[AgentPierce]

but i really believe if TV Tokyo (or the writers) actually made a feasable attempt at making an exception of explaining why the episodes were airing out of place it could be done. As i've said and plenty of other people have said, a preview at the beginning just simply stating where they were supposed to place (leaving out an disaster information) would have worked fine.

Again, the problem is how TPCI would deal with that, since they were forced to edit the end of BW022 as a result of the episodes' postponing. If TV Tokyo suddenly aired it, disclaimer and all, then how would TPCI air it in the dub? There can't be a disclaimer, since the episodes and their postponement was never advertised at all outside of Japan. They'd just suddenly air, out of context, with Ash and friends suddenly in a helicopter that they were previously edited into not getting into. TPCI didn't want that, and thus we have this result.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

Again, the problem is how TPCI would deal with that, since they were forced to edit the end of BW022 as a result of the episodes' postponing. If TV Tokyo suddenly aired it, disclaimer and all, then how would TPCI air it in the dub? There can't be a disclaimer, since the episodes and their postponement was never advertised at all outside of Japan. They'd just suddenly air, out of context, with Ash and friends suddenly in a helicopter that they were previously edited into not getting into. TPCI didn't want that, and thus we have this result.

As far as i'm aware, the Japanese Raw and TPCI Dub have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Unless the plan all along was to do what they're doing now, and they made an agreement with each other, the TPCI Dub did this blindly by themselves and it's their own fault which they would have to fix (which they clearly don't anyway).

 

[AgentPierce]

As far as i'm aware, the Japanese Raw and TPCI Dub have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Unless the plan all along was to do what they're doing now, and they made an agreement with each other, the TPCI Dub did this blindly by themselves and it's their own fault which they would have to fix (which they clearly don't anyway).

What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!

At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!

I hate it when stuff like this is mentioned. Kids arn't as stupid as everybody makes them out to be. They know if episodes are missing or not. I remember when i was the young audience during the OS and i could piece things together easily (Snow Way Out being a prime example of Charmander/Charizard). The TPCI ALWAYS airs episodes out of order. I can't stress that enough.

At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).

That would work very well, hopefully they don't just fully ignore it which quite frankly i see happening.

 

[AgentPierce]

Kids arn't as retarded as everybody makes them out to be. They know if episodes are missing or not.I remember when i was the young audience during the OS and i could piece things together easily (Snow Way Out being a prime example of Charmander/Charizard). The TPCI ALWAYS airs episodes out of order. I can't stress that enough.

All the episodes that you mention (Snow Way Out, episodes TPCI aired out of order in the past) are stand-alone filler episodes. There's a big difference.

And kids aren't retarded, but most kids just watch Pokemon every Saturday morning and don't partake in the online fandom or research the Japanese version. They shouldn't be expected to know about two very important but unadvertised episodes that BW022 led into being skipped over. I'm sorry, but the edit to BW022's ending was for the best.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

All the episodes that you mention (Snow Way Out, episodes TPCI aired out of order in the past) are stand-alone filler episodes. There's a big difference.

Forget Snow Way Out then, 4kids/Cartoon Network/TPCI you name it they aired practically every episode going out of order during the OS. Yes this included important episodes that weren't filler.

It wasn't until i discovered the internet that i actually found out the order of the episodes i watched through the years. Luckily i played the games so i knew which Gym Leader battle went before which.

Still didn't stop things as the Whirl Arc being confusing, yet i still knew the general twist of what was going on.

 

[Verdant]

I forgot about this thread:

Sorry, guys. Unlike Dephender (and others) said, I can almost confirm that the episodes Team Rocket VS Team Plasma are officially banned now.

In the past episode, it's confirmed that Looker doesn't met Iris and Cilan before and that anyone except from Looker didn't know Team Plasma are having activities in Unova until last episode. That means only one thing: the episodes are oficially banned from the scheduled now.

And the new Team Rocket vs Team Plasma episodes will be too diferent from the original ones because:
-Team Rocket aren't the level of seriousness that have been in BW. It's going to be more funny each episode it passes. Specially with Wobbuffet back.
-Looker is going to be sided with Team Rocket like the opening says unlike stopping the TR vs TP showdown.
-Team Plasma will appear with the BW2 uniforms.
-Ghetsis, Colress and specially N are going to appear in the retconned big Plasma episodes.
-Pierce and Zager won't re-appear again (specially the former). And Giovanni is by no any means confirmed to appear.
-The Meteonite isn't going to have a big part again.
-And now the Team Rocket mission is going to be catching Ash's Pikachu.

Sorry, guys. Now I can confirmed that the Team Plasma vs Team Rocket episodes that are supposed to air on 17th and 24th March of 2011 are now banned episodes.

Sorry, but an Earthquake that caused 10000-20000 deaths, the second worst nuclear disaster in the history, >1000000 of people without houses, where the electricity has to be cut in the Kanto (real-life) area, and caused an drop of Japan GDP in 2011 were more important that the negative effects that the postponed (now banned) episodes has in the Pokemon franchise. They intented to air later but the disaster was toobig to air the episodes now.

*The big problem witht his epoisodes is that they're suppoosed on March 17th and 24th of 2011. Nintendo/TV Tokyo/Shopro/OLM don't want compleining of Tohoku people.

The only reason they didn't air those episodes is because of a scene in which we saw a lot of destruction in Castelia City which somehow reminded them of the earthquake. With that scene gone there is no reason not to air the episodes.

Also what makes you think Zager will never appear again? There is no conformation on that

 

[cauldronmaster]

I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

They will probably be aired as flashback episodes just before the episode N climax. This would make for a nice ratings boost for the climax itself when it airs.

 

[Nightstar1994]

I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

They will probably be aired as flashback episodes just before the episode N climax. This would make for a nice ratings boost for the climax itself when it airs.

Ahahah. These episodes would get higher ratings than the climax itself. Besides if Pierce doesn't reappear in any shape, then there's no sense to air them.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

With that scene gone there is no reason not to air the episodes.

I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

Incorrect. Looker has officially only just met Iris and Cilan as of BWS2EN - 4.

 

[AgentPierce]

I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

Aside from the most recent episode cancelling that theory out entirely, what would be the point of the Neo-Plasma Grunts with Liepard in the opening then?

Incorrect. Looker has officially only just met Iris and Cilan as of BWS2EN - 4.

And both Ash and co. and the TRio haven't heard of Team Plasma until Looker talks about them.

Besides if Pierce doesn't reappear in any shape, then there's no sense to air them.

If Giovanni could just suddenly return after being last seen in BW022 for Operation Tempest, Pierce can for the retconned two-parter.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

And both Ash and co. and the TRio haven't heard of Team Plasma until Looker talks about them.

Very true, I forgot about that.

---

It's a shame everybody still expects to see these episodes at least retconned. There are so many features/aspects that would need to be edited/estabalished in the current anime episodes.

Established Points:

-Giovanni being in Unova.
-Pierce's absence/reason for returning.
-The Resort Desert emitting crazy signals.
-The Meteonite.
-Junipers return.

Edited Points:

-Team Plasma -> Neo Team Plasma.
-Ash's current party during BW022-25 being turned into his current team as of Episode N.
-Any introduction from Looker to Iris and Cilan being removed.
-Team Rocket's Clothing.

---

Eh, there's probably a tonne more I just can't think off the top of my head.

 

[LizardonX]

I wouldn't mind Ash and TR and looker breaking into the Genesect lab in Castelia city, then 5 lucky pokemon can all get a mega win. The most deserving are in order

Charizard
Pignite
Krookodile
Amoongus
Dragonite
Crustle
Palpitoad
I Cbfd to go on.

 

[AgentPierce]

-Giovanni being in Unova.
-Pierce's absence/reason for returning.

Neither of which necessarily have to be explained. Again, Giovanni returned to Unova before with no reason given for his absence.

-The Resort Desert emitting crazy signals.
-The Meteonite.
-Junipers return.

The bottom two can be explained prior to the two-parter, and the first doesn't need to happen again, as it'd start up while Ash, Juniper and the others are in the Desert Resort anyway.

-Team Plasma -> Neo Team Plasma.
-Ash's current party during BW022-25 being turned into his current team as of Episode N.
-Any introduction from Looker to Iris and Cilan being removed.
-Team Rocket's Clothing.

The first is a given, and there's been more than enough time for it to be made so.
The second may not be an issue; he may have not ever used any Pokemon but Pikachu in the episodes.
The third is easily cut, and the fourth is also easily managed through digital painting.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

Neither of which necessarily have to be explained. Again, Giovanni returned to Unova before with no reason given for his absence.

I can agree with Giovanni to an extent, although his last appearance made it much more prominent that he was done with Unova now. So something would have to explain such a special occasion.

Pierce on the other hand, the fact he's been gone for so long with no explainable absence makes it difficult to make his return look normal. Giovanni we know was busy under unknown circustances, but Pierce, no mention has been made since his last appearance.

The bottom two can be explained prior to the two-parter, and the first doesn't need to happen again, as it'd start up while Ash, Juniper and the others are in the Desert Resort anyway.

Ah very true, the latter however would need to be explained in the episode prior why they are travelling there again.

The first is a given, and there's been more than enough time for it to be made so.
The second may not be an issue; he may have not ever used any Pokemon but Pikachu in the episodes.
The third is easily cut, and the fourth is also easily managed through digital painting.

True, true.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!

At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).

This is one of the VERY few times I agree with an action TPCi has taken with respect to the anime. It was honestly a wise move on their part.

 

[AgentPierce]

Fer92 trying to accuse someone of acting like they know everything....wow. The hypocrisy is staggering.

I never pretend to know everything, I only base assumptions on any facts that I have to go by. That's more than I can say for you, Fer92.

Ash's Charizard has to not appear before the episodes.

Er, why not? Ash can very well get Charizard before the two-parter and just not use it in the episodes.

Pierce on the other hand, the fact he's been gone for so long with no explainable absence makes it difficult to make his return look normal. Giovanni we know was busy under unknown circustances, but Pierce, no mention has been made since his last appearance.

Seeing as he first appears in the episodes standing along with the TRio, Zager, and an army of Grunts, it could just be left to assume he came with the Grunts.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

For starters, there's confirmed a Plasma plot on Castelia City who will likely take more than 1 episode where Team Rocket will appear. And that will have plots for the Castelia Sewers and Genesect (eehhh, Gene) But not nothing more apart from that.

If the skipped would pseudo-air*, it will be:
-Without sensitive scenes.
-Team Rocket TRio don't have the Meteonite, if anything, other TR members will.
-Team Rocket Trio being white and Team Plasma being with different uniforms. (TR is easy but TP).
-Colress and N will appear.
-Evolved pokemon or unexisted pokemon in BW23-24 timeline will appear. Ex: Iris' Dragonite.
-The Meowth ballon will appear, the motto will change and the TRio will blast off in the end.

Those episodes aren't going to be the original episodes, but a heavily modified version o this episode because the writers needed a lot of $$$$ to make the episode. And for the fan complaints.

EDIT: When I edited the post, I edited to evade a banning but I won't update a post that's is a few days old with new information.