Are people putting to much emphasis on “Kanto pandering”?

[Spider-Phoenix]

In the franchise as a whole, yes, definitely, and people need to stop defending it.

In just the anime, I don't think it's as bad.

Agreed on both points.

As much as I hate the Brock and misty getting two cameos (not a fan of both) they make sense. I don't like it but... It made sense at least.

Now the games are borderline unforgiveable with all that pandering.

Hell no. Talk to me when Charizard and Eevee get a damn break of having major roles.
Brock and Misty appeared TWICE! Only Ash's Kanto Pokemon appeared during the lab episode, and no the brief cameo of Totodile/Corphish does NOT count! No scenes with the XY Pokemon chilling at the lab, none of his Johto, AG, DP, or BW Pokemon interacting with characters/Pokemon.
Eevee.....
No May, Tracey or Serena appearance.... heck even Gary and Oak's Rotom are practically non-existent! But Gary got replaced with a **** friend rival so that's probably why he didn't get an appearance >_<

I don't understand how people can defend Kanto.... games or anime.

Nostalgia.

Honestly, even if I was around when the crazy sucess started, looking back, I've found the weakest generation/series of the franchise. I'm really glad of not being affected by "the first is the only one that matters"

 

[J.Agera]

No

 

[Emelie]

I don't think the problem is that Misty and Brock returned twice but rather the fact that they didn't do anything important during the second cameo.

I think they should have done something that would have affected the overall story or the character development of Satoshi or any of the Sun and Moon characters.

The first cameo was also a little overcrowded even if the Kanto characters got some cool battles.

But then again if a character from any other generation would have returned mabye they would have suffered the same fate due to SM having too many characters?

 

[Power Up]

It’s not so bad in the anime, honestly. Like others have said, there were times when it was unnecessary (like Charizard, but I liked its brief return and it was nice to see him again; at least before XY mind-warped Ash into thinking nothing happened prior to Kalos) but the recent Kanto stuff has been understandable. Brock & Misty returning was cool for the 20th Anniversary, I Choose You and Power of Us- which is more Johto pandering than anything- were the best movies we’ve had since DP, but the Mewtwo movie was definitely overkill. The games are way worse than the anime when it comes to Kanto love; and no, three Gen 5 characters or one Johto reference will never erase that.

Do people like to blatantly lie? Does Alexa not exist?

 

[SandmasterL]

Whether people like it or not, Misty/Brock are simply the most well known companions in the same manner that the original 151 pokemon are the most well known pokemon. Many casual fans barely watched the anime after the OS ended, and of course viewership wise it was at the highest when it started.

Misty is the longest lasting female lead and gets the most cameos, and Brock lasted all the way to the end of DP staying for 4 generations. They'll always be better treated than any companions that came after. Misty also got the most specials, she got multiple specials at Cerulean Gym while the other characters only get 1 special or none at all.

 

[mysticalglacia]

Do people like to blatantly lie? Does Alexa not exist?

Alexa was a Gen VI character who explicitly appeared in BW to promote Gen VI. Of course he’s going to remember her when she was the one link between sagas XY cared to acknowledge. Like the series or not, you can not deny continuity barely existed in it.

 

[Power Up]

Alexa was a Gen VI character who explicitly appeared in BW to promote Gen VI. Of course he’s going to remember her when she was the one link between sagas XY cared to acknowledge. Like the series or not, you can not deny continuity barely existed in it.

" at least before XY mind-warped Ash into thinking nothing happened prior to Kalos "

So are you going to take that back or no?

 

[mysticalglacia]

" at least before XY mind-warped Ash into thinking nothing happened prior to Kalos "

So are you going to take that back or no?

No, I don’t think I have to. A mini hyperbole can go a long way for certain people. That’s all.

 

[Emelie]

I think Satoshi was probably more mind-warped in BW when he made beginner mistakes, lost to Trip's Snivy and came up with stupid strategies during the battle with Elesa. To make matters even worse the anime even recognized this when Pikachu got mad at him so you can't really ignore this (intentional?) flaw.

XY might not have had fun cameos from old characters (except Cilan and a vague mention of Dawn's Piplup) but Satoshi's competence was more on par with his DP self than BW Satoshi which was also weird in terms of countinuity.

I think this kind of countinuity is more important since it affects the overall plot of the (at the time) current anime. Haruka's cameo is the rare exception when an old character is important to the plot of the new series.

 

[Sham]

Can someone explain to me why people continuously bring up Ash losing to Snivy despite the anime actively bringing up how he and his moves were weaken but didn’t bat an eyelash when he lost to a Surskit of the first Gym and actively struggled/matched to Serena’s Braxien at the end of XY

 

[UltimateNinja]

Can someone explain to me why people continuously bring up Ash losing to Snivy despite the anime actively bringing up how he and his moves were weaken but didn’t bat an eyelash when he lost to a Surskit of the first Gym and actively struggled/matched to Serena’s Braxien at the end of XY

Pikachu still had Quick Attack and Iron Tail which worked just fine agains Snivy. I mean Pikachu should be able to beat a Pokemon who just joined a new trainer with two of it's best moves. Also the comparison with the Latios battle doesn't help either.

Against Surskit, the field was frozen without any help of rocks to move around Surskit, so Pikachu was slowed down while Surskit got faster. And comparing a gym leader Pokemon with more experience to a beginner trainer's one also isn't clever. Pikachu struggled against Braixen, but here again, Braixen probably had more experience than Snivy either. But yeah, Pikachu shouldn't had any struggle against Braixen.

 

[Power Up]

No, I don’t think I have to. A mini hyperbole can go a long way for certain people. That’s all.

I mean, you're literally being factually inaccurate. Whatever floats your boat I guess. You're statement was blatantly wrong

 

[DuquÊ?]

Can someone explain to me why people continuously bring up Ash losing to Snivy despite the anime actively bringing up how he and his moves were weaken but didn’t bat an eyelash when he lost to a Surskit of the first Gym and actively struggled/matched to Serena’s Braxien at the end of XY

Because these fights aren't comparable to each other.

Viola is a gym leader, so it doesn't matter how much of a fodder her pokemon looks like, is well trained and Ash just had started in Kalos. Yeah, I'll give you Ash himself is a king of the out-of-box tactics and he did already put and deal with weirder things than Viola's trick, but, I think everyone knows by now he can't steamroll the gyms as a walk in the park, nor keeps any of his old tricks. What depends on the writers' memory, after all, greninja pulled against Wulfric and abomasnow the same trick chimchar used against Candice and...well, abomasnow.

Serena spent a whole region watching closely Ash's battles and she already commanded pikachu effectively in battle herself. It isn't too much of a stretch she's at least savy about what wait from Ash and pikachu.

 

[SandmasterL]

Can someone explain to me why people continuously bring up Ash losing to Snivy despite the anime actively bringing up how he and his moves were weaken but didn’t bat an eyelash when he lost to a Surskit of the first Gym and actively struggled/matched to Serena’s Braxien at the end of XY

Pikachu loses to new unevolved pokemon at the beginning of every saga. In the second episode of Johto, Pikachu was struggling against Casey's brand new Chikorita after it just defeated Drake's Dragonite in the Orange League.

The writers obviously do this so Pikachu doesn't dominate its battles early in a region. As for Viola, she was a skilled Gym leader, an unevolved pokemon as we know doesn't make it weak.

 

[Sham]

@UltimateNinja Along with Pikachu’s electric moves being weakened, Pikachu was weakened. He wasn’t as strong as he usually was.

@DuquÊ? It’s a huge stretch when the former just competed in the Kalos league and the latter was in three-four unfinished battles yet in all they were made to look like they were on equal ground. Watching Ash=equal battle experience. They literally made Braxien’s scratch cancel Pikachu’s Iron Tail.

 

[SandmasterL]

]It’s a huge stretch when the former just competed in the Kalos league and the latter was in three-four unfinished battles yet in all they were made to look like they were on equal ground. Watching Ash=equal battle experience. They literally made Braxien’s scratch cancel Pikachu’s Iron Tail.

Because its a training battle and pokemon often are able to go toe to toe with more experienced pokemon.

This is no different than Ash battling Dawn and her Quilava in her BW cameo, her Quilava was still technically a baby pokemon without much experience, it was going toe to toe with Pikachu. Hell even before that I remember her baby Cyndaquil giving Ash's Grotle some trouble during a training match.

 

[Sham]

Because its a training battle and pokemon often are able to go toe to toe with more experienced pokemon.

This is no different than Ash battling Dawn and her Quilava in her BW cameo, her Quilava was still technically a baby pokemon without much experience, it was going toe to toe with Pikachu. Hell even before that I remember her baby Cyndaquil giving Ash's Grotle some trouble during a training match.

They never said it was a training battle, it was just called a battle. Quilava was in established battles prior to battling Pikachu in BW.

 

[DatsRight]

I guess it was easier to buy Dawn giving Ash a hard time since she had some legit training and competent battles. No one bats an eye to Ash using rookie Pokemon competently due to his own experience level for example.

Braixen's case looked more spurious because her trainer had barely been in anything but spam battles yet Serena was guiding her very fluently here. Hell her whole battle style was defensive heavy in that spar and yet it was a recurring thing that Serena was completely a glass cannon and you knew the battle would be DEMed or called off the moment she took a single hit back. Where was that stick-fu in development during earlier episodes?

 

[SandmasterL]

Braixen by the end of XY was pretty competent, Pikachu was not losing and they just had a quick friendly fight. I swear people make a big deal out of nothing.

 

[DatsRight]

I think it was kind of the same issue as with Lana in SM, with them wanting to boost Serena as a pseudo female powerhouse despite rarely having her battle competitively, and even when they did, having a 'don't hit girls' rule on most of the time which nulls out the ability to have them learn defensive tactics. Even Lana could arguably be given more leeway since she was shown training and growing something of a battle style through her non-battle abilities more than Serena was with her performing. As said the stick combat and defensive manoeuvres kind of came out of nowhere for that one last episode, while stuff like Lana's resourcefulness with Primarina's bubbles and Sophocles' with Vikavolt's flying were always a recurrent thing. It kind of felt like with Serena they just the counted the episode number and assumed she should be experienced by now despite barely getting anything but TR curb stomps and plot armour moments. Well she almost never LOST I suppose.