Are people putting to much emphasis on “Kanto pandering”?

[Dephender]

That was even worse, for once I hated a Lucario(My #1 fav) being around. There was no reason for both it and a Piplup to be around.... if they were with the same character, then sure that's fine! But two non-Kanto natives with Ash, neither are related... and they both happen to be from Sinnoh. Yet Sinnoh remakes didn't happen(Cause Kanto needed it's 5th turn *sigh* )

In a way I was glad that they decided to go with the non-obvious route by showcasing two popular Shinou Pokemon in that movie and not just a bunch of Kanto Pokemon.

Yuyama has explained that Makoto and Soji have the partner Pokemon they have because they're two of the most popular Pokemon out there, and that it wasn't until afterwards that they realized both Pokemon happened to come from the same gen. So that was a pure coincidence.

 

[DatsRight]

Both XY and SM also curiously featured a random Sinnoh Pokemon on the main cast (even if they were the least limelighted in both cases). XY also featured at least three temporary companions consisting of Gen 1, 3 and 4 Pokemon.

It really depends for me, I don't really find the Kanto pandering too overwhelming, it's kind of like, yeah, I'd like other regions to get some love too, but at least ONE of them is now. Stuff like Brock and Misty returning and the Alola forms like Vulpix and Marowak getting a second chance in the limelight were pretty fun.

 

[PokemonKnight]

The anime is pretty good at giving attention to a variety of Pokemon from different regions with XY and SM being the most notable examples.

Now the games are a different story with XY being the worst offender of them all followed by SM (albeit more tolerable because at least the Alolan Pokemon could still stand out like the starters).

The pandering in XY is overblown by the fan base. If anything, they are more tasteful homages, and most of the promotion is easily ignored. I dumped my Kanto starter in the PC, the forest layout is only known because of trivia, Snorlax is just one obstacle, and the Legendaries are optional. The Megas distribution is questionable but Mewtwo and Charizard promotion is more general Pokemon exposure than Gen I.

Unova, actually, has the biggest form of Gen 1 pandering. The entire experience is set up to mimic the Red/Blue experience. Over 150 Pokemon, half the Dex is a copycat of Gen 1 Pokemon, and the anime follows the theme with its cast choices (one Gym Leader and a type specialist).

 

[MockingJ]

Unova, actually, has the biggest form of Gen 1 pandering. The entire experience is set up to mimic the Red/Blue experience. Over 150 Pokemon, half the Dex is a copycat of Gen 1 Pokemon, and the anime follows the theme with its cast choices (one Gym Leader and a type specialist).

I dunno if I'd consider mimicking Gen 1's structure as actual Kanto pandering though. I know that Pikachu and Meowth were the only Kanto Pokemon in BW's first half, but they were still overshadowed by all the Unova Pokemon.

 

[Ignition]

The pandering in XY is overblown by the fan base. If anything, they are more tasteful homages, and most of the promotion is easily ignored. I dumped my Kanto starter in the PC, the forest layout is only known because of trivia, Snorlax is just one obstacle, and the Legendaries are optional. The Megas distribution is questionable but Mewtwo and Charizard promotion is more general Pokemon exposure than Gen I.

Unova, actually, has the biggest form of Gen 1 pandering. The entire experience is set up to mimic the Red/Blue experience. Over 150 Pokemon, half the Dex is a copycat of Gen 1 Pokemon, and the anime follows the theme with its cast choices (one Gym Leader and a type specialist).

I mean ignoring it doesn’t invalidate it as pandering. And considering that Unova’s “copycats” tend to make themselves popular without relying on being compared to their Gen 1 counterparts (most of the popular Gen 5 Pokèmon don’t have Gen 1 copies ironically). Gen 5’s focus on story, characters and world building set it apart enough where I don’t feel the Gen 1 experience at all

 

[PokemonKnight]

I mean ignoring it doesn’t invalidate it as pandering. And considering that Unova’s “copycats” tend to make themselves popular without relying on being compared to their Gen 1 counterparts (most of the popular Gen 5 Pokèmon don’t have Gen 1 copies ironically). Gen 5’s focus on story, characters and world building set it apart enough where I don’t feel the Gen 1 experience at all

Maybe but the idea of Gen 1 pandering in Gen 6 is still greatly overblown by the fan base. The point is, you can journey through Kalos and it is still its own region.

Actually, and I can't believe this slipped my mind, but Johto is the true Gen 1 pandering region. Most, if not all, the landmarks are inspired by Kanto Pokemon. The Gym Leaders only have four Johto Pokemon despite options existing. Kanto is in the game and home to many of the coolest and rarest Johto Pokemon. It is much harder to ignore the pandering because it is so infused in the game's structure. Being handed a Kanto starter is easy to ignore. Stopping TR at Slowpoke's Well right after defeating the Sprout Tower in the previous town isn't.

Well in your own words, Unova's most popular Pokemon aren't expies of Kanto Pokes which is pretty telling.

 

[Dragalge]

I dunno if I'd consider mimicking Gen 1's structure as actual Kanto pandering though. I know that Pikachu and Meowth were the only Kanto Pokemon in BW's first half, but they were still overshadowed by all the Unova Pokemon.

Only the Roggenrola, Timburr, & Woobat lines are homages to Gen 1 Pokemon. And even the former is now a lot different thanks to Golem getting a regional variant while the other two are based on different concepts. Otherwise, Unova is the least pandering because BW had little references to the past regions and is the reason why people consider it refreshing among using only the new Pokemon.

Also, XY had Hyper Beam get its Gen 1 sound back, the first encounter of Team Flare being related to fossils like TR in Mt. Moon, a forced Pidgey encounter as your initial one, and Lysandre Labs being a warp tile puzzle place. As for the starters, ignoring the option to use the Kanto starters doesn’t change how they still took away spotlight from the Kalos starters, especially when they got Megas. Sure Greninja got by (both games & anime) but that was only because of its HA kickstarting its popularity.

 

[AznKei]

Maybe but the idea of Gen 1 pandering in Gen 6 is still greatly overblown by the fan base. The point is, you can journey through Kalos and it is still its own region.

Actually, and I can't believe this slipped my mind, but Johto is the true Gen 1 pandering region. Most, if not all, the landmarks are inspired by Kanto Pokemon. The Gym Leaders only have four Johto Pokemon despite options existing. Kanto is in the game and home to many of the coolest and rarest Johto Pokemon. It is much harder to ignore the pandering because it is so infused in the game's structure. Being handed a Kanto starter is easy to ignore. Stopping TR at Slowpoke's Well right after defeating the Sprout Tower in the previous town isn't.

Well in your own words, Unova's most popular Pokemon aren't expies of Kanto Pokes which is pretty telling.

The thing with Johto is that it is really connected with Kanto just like their real life counterparts, so their cultures are the least different compared to other regions like Unova which the 1st region that is truly far away than the 1st 4 regions. I think with Unova, they wanted make a refresh of the franchise in more "American" vibe compared to the previous ones.

 

[UltimateNinja]

Well I can see a lot of gen 1 in both gen 5 and 6. Unova as a region and Pokemon, Kalos in terms of Kanto pandering as Kanto starters and actual references to Kanto like Snorlax. And the BW anime was pretty much OS 2.0.


The least amount of gen 1 pandering I saw in a region was with Sinnoh.

 

[mysticalglacia]

Kalos had bad Kanto pandering, because pretty much of all it was pointless and didn’t need to be in the there at all. There was no reason for the Legendary Birds to be a main attraction, yet they were. I love the games and even I can admit that; the region is 75% Kanto with a French theme slapped onto it.

Unova’s nothing like Kanto aside from the handful of similar Pokémon; which is something relating to the Dex and not the region. The entire theming, structure, aesthetic, and layout of Unova is not even close to being similar- unlike Kalos. The anime is a different entity from the games- on which the OS formatting is very apparent- but that distinction couldn’t be more clear.

Johto suffers from its connection the worst, honestly. It differentiates itself by being more traditional in culture and aesthetic, but it’s hardly ever treated as its own region- more like “a boxed set” with Kanto. It’s unfortunate, because Johto has some of the most interesting lore and culture in the series to me.

 

[Leonhart]

I dunno if I'd consider mimicking Gen 1's structure as actual Kanto pandering though. I know that Pikachu and Meowth were the only Kanto Pokemon in BW's first half, but they were still overshadowed by all the Unova Pokemon.

The very fact that Pikachu and Nyasu were the only mainstay Kanto Pokemon could be taken as evidence of some Kanto pandering during that period, although one could argue that Pikachu and Nyasu had to stay since they're some of the most popular Gen I Pokemon overall and are both essentially mascots.

 

[JLK2707]

Maybe it was just to pamper to all those who are nostalgic when it comes to Gen 1.

 

[game3524]

Kalos had bad Kanto pandering, because pretty much of all it was pointless and didn’t need to be in the there at all. There was no reason for the Legendary Birds to be a main attraction, yet they were. I love the games and even I can admit that; the region is 75% Kanto with a French theme slapped onto it.

Unova’s nothing like Kanto aside from the handful of similar Pokémon; which is something relating to the Dex and not the region. The entire theming, structure, aesthetic, and layout of Unova is not even close to being similar- unlike Kalos. The anime is a different entity from the games- on which the OS formatting is very apparent- but that distinction couldn’t be more clear.

Johto suffers from its connection the worst, honestly. It differentiates itself by being more traditional in culture and aesthetic, but it’s hardly ever treated as its own region- more like “a boxed set” with Kanto. It’s unfortunate, because Johto has some of the most interesting lore and culture in the series to me.

Yeah, the Kanto pandering is pretty bad in Kalos. The legendary birds, Mewtwo, the Kanto starters, Snorlax. It really is just a French lite version of Kanto. Johto relies on Kanto a lot as well, but that region at least has the excuse of being connected to Kanto and the games were really just a sequel to RBY, instead of being their own things like RSE and DP.

 

[MockingJ]

Maybe it was just to pamper to all those who are nostalgic when it comes to Gen 1.

I think most people realize that now, it's just that we're salty over that decision because it leaves those of us who didn't like Gen 1 that much high and dry. Where's our Gen 3 pandering?

 

[game3524]

I think most people realize that now, it's just that we're salty over that decision because it leaves those of us who didn't like Gen 1 that much high and dry. Where's our Gen 3 pandering?

ORAS

 

[MockingJ]

ORAS

I mean in the show since this is the Pokemon Anime Discussion section. As far as I can remember, all we got in the show as far as Hoenn hype goes when the remakes came out were two Mega Evo specials, Steven and Sawyer.

 

[PokemonKnight]

Yeah, the Kanto pandering is pretty bad in Kalos. The legendary birds, Mewtwo, the Kanto starters, Snorlax. It really is just a French lite version of Kanto. Johto relies on Kanto a lot as well, but that region at least has the excuse of being connected to Kanto and the games were really just a sequel to RBY, instead of being their own things like RSE and DP.

Kalos is still heavily in its own region. Outside of those events, I never felt like it simulated Kanto. Then again, I love the heck out of Gen 6. It was the generation that returned me to Pokemon after a lengthy sojourn.

The Johto games have to ride that excuse otherwise they are shallow, empty shells relying on Kanto especially as the years progress. Kanto Pokemon run rampant in the fields and in Gym Leaders' rosters, premier Johto Pokemon are either cumbersome to obtain (item/trade and happiness evolution), exist in Mount Silver, or are only found in Kanto. Thanks GSC, instead of pushing the hellhound, you want me to use the small orange dog, track down a generic junior trainer, and wait for his call before I can evolve it. Genius. We know how the phone works. Just sell the stones in Goldenrod. You figured it out in RBY to sell stones in Celadon's Department Store.

That is why the Kanto homages in Kalos never bothered me. Kalos has its own identity so the Kanto homages are just sprinkles on the ice cream cone. Gym Leaders use Kalos Pokemon. I found cool Kalos Pokemon (Aegislash, Hawlucha, Sylevon) early in my journey. Imagine if XY followed GSC's model: Honedge would be a post-game Mon, Hawlucha maybe Victory Road, and Sylveon would take forever to obtain. I guess I have always find it slightly ironic. Hardcore Pokemon fans tend to dislike the focus on Gen 1 and have complained XY & Sun and Moon pander too much to Kanto but the Johto games are beloved but they are more tied to Kanto than Gen 6 and Gen 7 ever were. Nostalgia is a powerful force.

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

Well to me, the Johto games are also extremely enjoyable so people disregard the pandering for the fun of the games. Specifically HGSS, who I and a lot of the fandom, think are some of the best of the main series games.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Kalos is still heavily in its own region. Outside of those events, I never felt like it simulated Kanto. Then again, I love the heck out of Gen 6. It was the generation that returned me to Pokemon after a lengthy sojourn.

The Johto games have to ride that excuse otherwise they are shallow, empty shells relying on Kanto especially as the years progress. Kanto Pokemon run rampant in the fields and in Gym Leaders' rosters, premier Johto Pokemon are either cumbersome to obtain (item/trade and happiness evolution), exist in Mount Silver, or are only found in Kanto. Thanks GSC, instead of pushing the hellhound, you want me to use the small orange dog, track down a generic junior trainer, and wait for his call before I can evolve it. Genius. We know how the phone works. Just sell the stones in Goldenrod. You figured it out in RBY to sell stones in Celadon's Department Store.

That is why the Kanto homages in Kalos never bothered me. Kalos has its own identity so the Kanto homages are just sprinkles on the ice cream cone. Gym Leaders use Kalos Pokemon. I found cool Kalos Pokemon (Aegislash, Hawlucha, Sylevon) early in my journey. Imagine if XY followed GSC's model: Honedge would be a post-game Mon, Hawlucha maybe Victory Road, and Sylveon would take forever to obtain. I guess I have always find it slightly ironic. Hardcore Pokemon fans tend to dislike the focus on Gen 1 and have complained XY & Sun and Moon pander too much to Kanto but the Johto games are beloved but they are more tied to Kanto than Gen 6 and Gen 7 ever were. Nostalgia is a powerful force.

Gen 1 had the most Megas until ORAS introduced 12 new ones for Hoenn, and it's the only region that got dual Megas. Gen II is really just Gen I expanded, and has an actual excuse in that it's connected to Kanto. There's no reason for the birds or Mewtwo to be in Kalos.

 

[Lunalah]

The least amount of gen 1 pandering I saw in a region was with Sinnoh.

That's probably because Sinnoh was focused more on Johto pandering during the last 30% of the region and even a few times before that like right after the Solaceon Town episodes, so there wasn't as much room for Kanto pandering.