Are Pikachu's feats a good indicator of his strength?

[snorlax512]

I've been rewatching parts of the anime (mainly battles), and something sparked my mind.

Pikachu's two best feats (arguably) would be his heroics against Tobias in the Sinnoh League and Alain in the Kalos League.

However, both feats were only made possible because Pikachu was graced with critically advantageous matchups where his opponents (Latios and Metagross) had short arms which couldn't reach their heads, so the lil mouse could just jump on top and thunderbolt continuously without being hit.

Considering that Pikachu was being dominated by both while fighting head on, do his feats truly live up to his name?

What if Tobias used Darkrai against Pikachu instead? What if Alain's second best pokemon wasn't a Metagross? If scenarios were reversed, Pikachu could have very well lost decisively against Darkrai, and been defeated mid-difficulty by Alain's 2nd pokemon. Would he truly be a cut above other aces like Sceptile and Infernape then?

 

[Genaller]

Well he did have a definitive win over Regice (it was hard fought but not down to the wire) not to mention he was able to make Alain’s E4+ lvl Charizard kneel and would’ve seemingly been able to fight competitively with him if not for his damage/fatigue from battling Metagross. I still think Peakachu belongs in the E4 Ace spectrum though maybe on the lower end of it (S) rather than on the upper end of it (Z-) with the likes of Flint’s Infernape which is where I’m currently rating him as of end of XYZ.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Pikachu is just like many sports teams ie totally inconsistent, in just last battles it take down two legendaries and then in next battle it is losing to far inferior opponents, pikachu from AG onwards has always been inconsistent.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Yes and no,the writers love to tamper with the mouse's power level throughout every series,it would gradually get stronger but then when a new series starts it's power would drop drastically to point of it losing to a Snivy or an Elekid.Some of it's feats against pokemon like Regice and Latios are obvious Deus Ex Machina,but it also has feats that would truly be a good indication of it's strength like against Lucy/Paul/Cameron/Sawyer

 

[snorlax512]

Well he did have a definitive win over Regice (it was hard fought but not down to the wire) not to mention he was able to make Alain’s E4+ lvl Charizard kneel and would’ve seemingly been able to fight competitively with him if not for his damage/fatigue from battling Metagross. I still think Peakachu belongs in the E4 Ace spectrum though maybe on the lower end of it (S) rather than on the upper end of it (Z-) with the likes of Flint’s Infernape which is where I’m currently rating him as of end of XYZ.

Yea vs Regice is the most undisputable evidence for estimating Pikachu's power. I'm still not too convinced by the kneeling feat; I can't imagine any E4 ace-range pokemon being toyed around by Metagross like that after just one low-difficulty fight. Unless Metagross is E4 calibre itself, which I doubt.

 

[Genaller]

Yea vs Regice is the most undisputable evidence for estimating Pikachu's power. I'm still not too convinced by the kneeling feat; I can't imagine any E4 ace-range pokemon being toyed around by Metagross like that after just one low-difficulty fight. Unless Metagross is E4 calibre itself, which I doubt.

Even barring the kneeling Peakachu seemed competitive with Zard and only lost because he couldn’t keep battling with such intensity due to the damage taken from Metagross. I don’t see an issue with Metagross being E4 lvl; obviously not in the E4 Ace spectrum but it definitely could be in the E4 non-Ace spectrum (maybe even at the top end of it).

With regards to the Regice feat we have End of BF Peakachu > Regice >= Dusclops ~ End of BF Zard >= Beginning of BF Zard ~ Articuno, so that still more than confirms that Peakachu belongs in Ash’s TOP 6.

 

[mehmeh1]

Even barring the kneeling Peakachu seemed competitive with Zard and only lost because he couldn’t keep battling with such intensity due to the damage taken from Metagross. I don’t see an issue with Metagross being E4 lvl; obviously not in the E4 Ace spectrum but it definitely could be in the E4 non-Ace spectrum (maybe even at the top end of it).

With regards to the Regice feat we have End of BF Peakachu > Regice >= Dusclops ~ End of BF Zard >= Beginning of BF Zard ~ Articuno, so that still more than confirms that Peakachu belongs in Ash’s TOP 6.

well, metagross could very well be there, seeing as to how easily he beat noivern as a metang

 

[snorlax512]

Even barring the kneeling Peakachu seemed competitive with Zard and only lost because he couldn’t keep battling with such intensity due to the damage taken from Metagross. I don’t see an issue with Metagross being E4 lvl; obviously not in the E4 Ace spectrum but it definitely could be in the E4 non-Ace spectrum (maybe even at the top end of it).

With regards to the Regice feat we have End of BF Peakachu > Regice >= Dusclops ~ End of BF Zard >= Beginning of BF Zard ~ Articuno, so that still more than confirms that Peakachu belongs in Ash’s TOP 6.

Hmm maybe you're right. One thing that concerns me though is straight up overpowering is not usually depicted unless one pokemon is significantly stronger than another (even when factoring in exhaustion). When Pikachu was tired from battling Frosslass in the SL he was still able to match Electivire in power afterwards, which was explicitly noted by Paul - and only lost because of motordrive (an underrated feat imo). Perhaps full-health Pikachu could have put up a fight against base Zard but the result would not be close.

Peaka is obviously Top 6 (between blaze ape and Charizard for me), but idk if he's on the E4 ace spectrum. Flint's Infernape could manhandle Tier 1's with ease and whilst he's probably the strongest E4 trainer, you gotta be able to do something at least remotely comparable to make the spectrum. The way BW Charizard dominated Dragonite is the closest thing I have seen to that, which is probably why I think he's the closest to that title.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

well, metagross could very well be there, seeing as to how easily he beat noivern as a metang

Metang didn't beat noivern easily, it was a very close match with metang also taking a lot of damage even alain commented that little more damage and it could have gone either way, plus noivern was just recently evolved pokemon at that time.

 

[Genaller]

Hmm maybe you're right. One thing that concerns me though is straight up overpowering is not usually depicted unless one pokemon is significantly stronger than another (even when factoring in exhaustion). When Pikachu was tired from battling Frosslass in the SL he was still able to match Electivire in power afterwards, which was explicitly noted by Paul - and only lost because of motordrive (an underrated feat imo). Perhaps full-health Pikachu could have put up a fight against base Zard but the result would not be close.

Maybe it would be something like an A-G vs MS battle in terms of difficulty required for Zard to win (so hard fought but decisive).

Peaka is obviously Top 6 (between blaze ape and Charizard for me), but idk if he's on the E4 ace spectrum. Flint's Infernape could manhandle Tier 1's with ease and whilst he's probably the strongest E4 trainer, you gotta be able to do something at least remotely comparable to make the spectrum. The way BW Charizard dominated Dragonite is the closest thing I have seen to that, which is probably why I think he's the closest to that title.

The way Blazeape specifically was dominating Luxray and Electivire would comfortably put him in the E4 Ace spectrum though Infernape can only be in Special Blaze when his health is =< 1/3rd which is why overall Infernape wouldn’t be rated so high.

 

[snorlax512]

Maybe it would be something like an A-G vs MS battle in terms of difficulty required for Zard to win (so hard fought but decisive).

Yea I could see that happening.

The way Blazeape specifically was dominating Luxray and Electivire would comfortably put him in the E4 Ace spectrum though Infernape can only be in Special Blaze when his health is =< 1/3rd which is why overall Infernape wouldn’t be rated so high.

Yea I meant overall Infernape < Pikachu < AG. Just out of curiosity where do you place base Greninja? Since it had the upper hand to base Zard in the league and also held his ground against MCX for a short while (in their second battle I think)

well, metagross could very well be there, seeing as to how easily he beat noivern as a metang

Hmm I find it hard to believe that Alain, whose goal is to be the strongest ME trainer (and virtually only uses his Charizard) would have an E4 level pokemon just chilling in his roster. Even if he did, it probably be a a pokemon he had for a long time, and Metagross evolved not that long ago.

 

[Genaller]

Yea I meant overall Infernape < Pikachu < AG. Just out of curiosity where do you place base Greninja? Since it had the upper hand to base Zard in the league and also held his ground against MCX for a short while (in their second battle I think)

At a bare minimum Base Greninja ~ Sawyer’s Base Sceptile ~ Paul’s Base Electivire ~ Base Infernape though he could possibly be as high as Overall Infernape. Note that the increase from the A-G form seems to be even higher than that of any standard ME.

Hmm I find it hard to believe that Alain, whose goal is to be the strongest ME trainer (and virtually only uses his Charizard) would have an E4 level pokemon just chilling in his roster. Even if he did, it probably be a a pokemon he had for a long time, and Metagross evolved not that long ago.

To be fair Evolution boosts are very inconsistent in this show. Also we know that Alain collected 8 gym badges since XYZ23, so maybe he used Metang/Metagross a lot during his badge quest.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

If you resign yourself to the fact Pikachu gets reset at the start of every series and stopped saying things like "How did Pikachu go from barely taking down a lower-tier legendary pokémon to losing to a Snivy that was ready to evolve?" then you'd probably have less of a headache trying to figure out how powerful Pikachu is

As of SM101, Pikachu has once again reached Mythical Pokémon power levels since he's able to keep up with Zeraora's speed

Pikachu is however strong the plot demands, whether it's being able to survive an onslaught by an Elite Four pokémon while using Volt Tackle repeatedly, or getting OHKO'd by an Eevee playfully touching him

 

[mehmeh1]

If you resign yourself to the fact Pikachu gets reset at the start of every series and stopped saying things like "How did Pikachu go from barely taking down a lower-tier legendary pokémon to losing to a Snivy that was ready to evolve?" then you'd probably have less of a headache trying to figure out how powerful Pikachu is

As of SM101, Pikachu has once again reached Mythical Pokémon power levels since he's able to keep up with Zeraora's speed

Pikachu is however strong the plot demands, whether it's being able to survive an onslaught by an Elite Four pokémon while using Volt Tackle repeatedly, or getting OHKO'd by an Eevee playfully touching him

yeah, I mean, this is the show in which pikachu can beat a mega and within 10 episodes get outperformed by a recently evolved middle stage mon or immobilized by a scientist's psychic type mons, or fight evenly with a mythical and then get bodied by a normal pokemon 3 episodes later