Are the pokemon generations getting worse as they go along?

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

To go off the topic, one thing I don't like is how in gen 5 and 6 is how there is the pattern of the first two gyms having 2 pokemon, and then the rest all have 3. In bw2 every gym with three pokemon had one old pokemon and two new pokemon, and in kalos every gym with three had two old and one new. In the elite four all had four pokemon each at basically the exacf same levels. Same with kalos, and each had two old pokemon and two new pokemon. I thought the kalos gyms and elite four were slightly better in variety with the pokemon overall, and with the gym trainers. I loved the variety in older gens, especially with gen 4 and platinum, that you saw with the gym leader amount of pokemon and pokemon themselves. Same with the elite four. Also diantha's team was blegh.

Well, the Pokémon games are never meant to be challenging. Competitive battling is what most people buy the Pokémon games for anyway.

I think the makers of the games realize that, that's why the number of Pokémon gym leaders and elite four members have have been decreased.

 

[yuoke]

Well, the Pokémon games are never meant to be challenging. Competitive battling is what most people buy the Pokémon games for anyway.

I think the makers of the games realize that, that's why the number of Pokémon gym leaders and elite four members have have been decreased.

It doesnt just have to do with the challenge in this case, but even still, the games were already easy as is.

 

[Dew Watatsumi]

Well, the Pokémon games are never meant to be challenging. Competitive battling is what most people buy the Pokémon games for anyway.

I think the makers of the games realize that, that's why the number of Pokémon gym leaders and elite four members have have been decreased.

How have they decreased? It's always been the same number of Gym/Elite 4 members unless you are talking about them changing the members like we had in 5th and 2nd gen.

You could also argue that the games are challenging in its own right. They just gave you the opportunity to make it easy on yourself. I mean, look at the buff the experience share got in X and Y? You would probably be a bit underleveled or still grinding if it kept its old mechanics in previous generations.

 

[Tonguetyd]

I think the makers of the games realize that, that's why the number of Pokémon gym leaders and elite four members have have been decreased.

How have they been decreased?
The number of pokemon has always been 2-4, with the sole exceptions being Juan, Wallace and Giovanni.

 

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

How have they been decreased?
The number of pokemon has always been 2-4, with the sole exceptions being Juan, Wallace and Giovanni.

Before Pokémon Black, the elite four members always had 5 Pokémon on their team.

 

[dirkac]

How have they been decreased?
The number of pokemon has always been 2-4, with the sole exceptions being Juan, Wallace and Giovanni.

Well, so did Winona but when Swablu is one of those Pokémon it's somewhat neglegible.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

i would have loved challenge mode and 6 pokes on each e4 member postgame, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Greekboy]

Thought Id be the first to mention Gen 6 was boring
Imo it was all hype, haven't touched my 3DS since beating the E4 like 4 days after release day

 

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

Thought Id be the first to mention Gen 6 was boring
Imo it was all hype, haven't touched my 3DS since beating the E4 like 4 days after release day

Yeah, the villainous team in that game is very bland.

 

[ultatrainer]

THe real reason that people critesize new gens is because your brain doesn't find it important to remember the bad stuff about the old generations, so I bet in 10 years we will all be like "yah, gen 6 was the best"

 

[Golden_Latias]

THe real reason that people critesize new gens is because your brain doesn't find it important to remember the bad stuff about the old generations, so I bet in 10 years we will all be like "yah, gen 6 was the best"

That's what they call the Nostalgia Filter.

 

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

Sorry, but that is just plain wrong. Most people buy Pokemon because it's Pokemon. The majority of Pokemon's sales come from children, and I hardly think those children are a bunch of competitive people watching the meta.

People who play Pokemon for competitive battling just use Showdown. Well, 95% of them do.

Are you sure most Pokémon fans are kids? Because most Pokémon fans I know are adults, and that's no exaggeration.

Well, ok, maybe I'm wrong when I said most people buy the Pokémon games for the competitive play, but my main point still stands. Nobody buys the Pokémon games expecting a challenge, and that's a fact. Everyone knows that the Pokémon games are easy to beat.

The Pokémon species themselves are the main reason people buy the Pokémon games. They are amazing creatures, and that's the reason the games sell so well. Maybe they don't buy the games to use them in competitive battling, but you can't deny the fact that Pokémon you can get in those games are the main reason the Pokémon games are selling so well.

 

[fitzy909]

Yes, I'm sure most Pokemon fans are kids. The fans you know are adults (Probably because you are an adult yourself so you don't go around making friends with children). A small group of people doesn't represent the vast majority of a consumer base for a very popular product. Even if you knew 100 adults who played Pokemon, it still wouldn't mean anything considering this series sells millions of copies.

And you're right, nobody expects challenge from a Pokemon game. Why is that? Because they're aimed at children. Not because you're supposed to speed through the game as fast as possible to get to the nitty gritty competitive aspect.

And you're also right with saying that new Pokemon are the reason people buy the games (Most likely why they're slapped all over the box) but I'm fairly certain that's based off designs alone and competitive viability has nothing to do with it. I can't deny that Pokemon are the reason people buy Pokemon, but I don't really see what that has to do with anything.

I think it would be good to select a difficulty at the start, so those of us that are older could have a challenge. Your are right. People wouldn't buy the games if they didn't have new pokemon. It isn't like other RPG series, no other RPG has so many different choices for a team.

 

[YonaNoveau]

The closest you can get is a general agreed opinion about the gens, I guess and even that is pretty subjective. IMO this gen has the best competitive scene given new balances, moves, typing etc. Though plot wise I find it rather weak, and unlike Gen IV and before, it's not because they wanted to make it simple, they tried to make it epic and touching (we have a song with lyrics and all) but felt short. In that regard I thin BW had the best story and also a pretty strong music to go with it.

However, my favorite generation will always be IV.

 

[randomspot555]

Pokemon games are undeniably marketed to children. They're produced in a "toyetic" way, promoted with an animated cartoon that fits right in with all the episodic-teach-a-good-moral-lesson-while-promoting-a-product stuff that children's television usually is, merchandised with toys and cards that are made to be liked by children, and many of the promotional events and such are even done at Toys R Us, which is a huge kids' store.

That adults, even many adults, play Pokemon is nice.

But it doesn't change that they are marketed at children.

 

[Hexin' Wishes]

I find the label of "kids game" to be a cop-out. The reality is the ones keeping it afloat are the adult fans, they not only financially support it but they also pass it down to their children. The story of the inception of PokéBank alone shows that they are pandering to the adult crowd as well. Pokémon has been in the same tone as it has been because that is the world they created it for. I don't see too many people calling Mario just a "kids game" so why so much shade towards Pokémon even within the community?

Back on topic: I don't think they're worse. Each generation has been different enough to stand on it's own and even though the Dex and other improvements remain, not much of the previous Regions are mentioned.
In saying that, aesthetically, Gen VI is the best of them all but it is the absolute worst Pokémon game in terms of story (bar Gen IV because I haven't played DPPt). It's completely vapid and unimpressive. If it wasn't for the 3D, I don't think others would be praising it much to be honest.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I find the label of "kids game" to be a cop-out. The reality is the ones keeping it afloat are the adult fans, they not only financially support it but they also pass it down to their children. The story of the inception of PokéBank alone shows that they are pandering to the adult crowd as well. Pokémon has been in the same tone as it has been because that is the world they created it for. I don't see too many people calling Mario just a "kids game" so why so much shade towards Pokémon even within the community?

Back on topic: I don't think they're worse. Each generation has been different enough to stand on it's own and even though the Dex and other improvements remain, not much of the previous Regions are mentioned.
In saying that, aesthetically, Gen VI is the best of them all but it is the absolute worst Pokémon game in terms of story (bar Gen IV because I haven't played DPPt). It's completely vapid and unimpressive. If it wasn't for the 3D, I don't think others would be praising it much to be honest.

The problem is that nowadays a lot of kids games tend to dumb things down to the point where the games are completely idiotproof. Pokemon did this in 5th gen with the shift towards linear region design, limited trainer rosters, and an overall lower difficulty, and the series hasn't quite been the same since. The shift towards lower difficulty has put off a lot of adult gamers.

 

[5andman]

I played Gens 1 and 2, then started again with 5, went back and played what I missed and then played 6.

What has gotten better:
-Battle mechanics
-Graphics (duh)
-Depth of pokemon. I find the idea of IVs/EVs etc to be very appealing, granted I hate how you obtain good IV pokemon atm.
-Quality of life things like the Pokedex actually having uses (finding Zapdos post game was kinda neat).
-Mini games (not all but some). I think the EV super-training is a solid addition, so is the berry farm.
-New pokemon seem to be given much more attention than older new batches (lol ice cream cone pokemon)

What has gotten worse:
-Story. Yeah it has to be a kid's game too, but that doesn't mean to story needs to be borderline mouth-breather style. I recently watched Pokemon Origins, and while I felt it was rushed and albeit predictable, I felt how the characters interacted, and their motivations were much more authentic than what we have today visa vie the games; and the catch is that mini-series didn't have anything that would be unacceptable/not entertaining to children. Make the villains actually seem villainous, you can accomplish this without having them do gruesome/terrible things in-game... essentially they need to seem competent and have a non-moron objective (see team flare).

-Difficulty. This one is sooooo easy to solve, simply put different settings in at the start of the game. Easy (what X and Y are now). Normal (No exp share, slower leveling, smarter AI for trainers). Hard all of what I just mentioned + very punishing pokemon load outs for Gym Leaders/Trainers, make catching all the pokemon that you encounter on your journey serve a gameplay purpose and not just a "well if I wanna fill up my dex post-game I might as well get all the wild route pokemon outa the way".

-Level design. Its just too linear, I enjoyed the aesthetic of the Gyms + a few of the caves, but I had no actual choice in how I wanted to progress through the game. Given how easy the Gym Leaders are in its current incarnation there is no reason why it can't be a bit more open world. I don't think this would add to "confusing" the younger player base either, everyone knows you need 8 badges, simply labeling which cities on the map have gyms + maybe their level range would be sufficient.

-HMs. Why are these still ingame? Why can't my water pokemon swim without me giving it some PITA hard to remove TM? Why can't my Machamp move a bolder?

-Over focus on the legendary pokemon. I prefered the legendary pokemon being rare encoutner or dungeons; it feels forced that it's always intertwined with the incompetent Team lol.

X and Y are def going in the right direction. Their online features are very well thought out (minus the fact that it got burdened with Nintendo's FCs, but that isn't really gamefreak's fault). Most of the changes they could make easily (minus the story as I suppose they are contractually obliged to keep it kinda close to the anime).

 

[Hidden Power]

The problem is that nowadays a lot of kids games tend to dumb things down to the point where the games are completely idiotproof. Pokemon did this in 5th gen with the shift towards linear region design, limited trainer rosters, and an overall lower difficulty, and the series hasn't quite been the same since. The shift towards lower difficulty has put off a lot of adult gamers.

I don't know why you kept repeating about the linear design, but personally I don't associate linearity of the game's pathway with level of difficulty, which is mostly the result of decreased number of Pokemon and increased ease of training. Think of it like the early Fire Emblem series; the storyline is linear, but the difficulty comes from playing the turn-base strategy battles. All non-linearity does in Pokemon games is to spice up your route options, which again, does not correlate with difficulty.

And like someone mentioned earlier, the game isn't programmed to adjust the gym's difficulty according to your route of choice; if you go against a later, tougher gym you end up overleveling for the earlier ones. Unless of course they pull off something like Pokemon Origins, the gym leaders react accordingly to the number of badges you've obtained.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I don't know why you kept repeating about the linear design, but personally I don't associate linearity of the game's pathway with level of difficulty, which is mostly the result of decreased number of Pokemon and increased ease of training. Think of it like the early Fire Emblem series; the storyline is linear, but the difficulty comes from playing the turn-base strategy battles. All non-linearity does in Pokemon games is to spice up your route options, which again, does not correlate with difficulty.

And like someone mentioned earlier, the game isn't programmed to adjust the gym's difficulty according to your route of choice; if you go against a later, tougher gym you end up overleveling for the earlier ones.

It's related to difficulty in terms of how you explore the region, a linear region like Unova and Kalos takes away all of the decision making in how you explore the region, the game is holding your hand and telling you where to go and when you can go there instead of having you explore and discover things for yourself.