Are we really abusing the term "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" for the Anime characters?

[matt0044]

I was on Bulbagarden where a user, Meron, said that Iris was NOT a Mary Sue on her blog. Here's what it said:

This is NOT a "stop hating over a character I like" post. You can dislike her as much as you want. However, whatever you think of her, DON'T abuse terms. Iris is not a Mary Sue... How many characters do you see fawning over her beauty and skills? Iris is not any more a Mary Sue than Hikari (Kengo liked her) or Haruka (Shuu liked her), or even Kasumi (bunch of dudes liked her) were. People are not constantly telling her how much they admire her, either.

Also, I see people calling Luke a Mary Sue too. Axew's me?

First of all, Luke is a male character. Male characters are NOT referred as Mary Sues. If you have to refer to him as the embodiment of perfectness, at least use the correct term which is Gary Stu. If you don't want to call him Gary for obvious reasons, call him Marty or Larry. I don't see any reason why you'd think Luke is anything near a Gary Stu, though.

Ironically, in my opinion the most Gary Stueish character is Dento. I absolutely love him, by the way.

TL;DR Learn yeh terms right.

Another user commented, saying this:

Really I don't think there's a "right" definition for Mary Sue anymore. It's been so used and abused by everyone and their siblings to mean "Characters whom I think get too much of the story/got together with a character from MY ship/etc" that it's entirely pointless to even use it.

Well, unless you're deliberately trying to be insulting and demeaning. Which I suspect a lot of people who use the term are.

And another said this:

Agreed. I've never used or liked the 'Mary Sue' label, it's pretty stupid especially when it's directed at the females. People who accuse Iris of being that way are basically just saying she possesses some common, female traits.
The most girly girl was Dawn. She was the only one who really cared about her appearance and made the effort to dress up for contests, and the whole, Pokemon fashion thing.
Say what you like about Iris but she's not that way in the slightest as far as I can tell. She actually lets her Kibago live inside her hair..she's never shown any signs of being timid or vain.

Needless to say, I have to agree with Meron and the other two. I don't mean to insult anybody but a lot of us really have been abusing the terms "Mary Sue" and "Gary Sue" when it comes to the characters of the Anime.

A "Mary Sue/Gary Sue" is suppose to a fictional character that's perfect in every way and a representation of the author's dreams in that she/he wants to be perfect. For example, the character has no flaws (perfect body, perfect attitude, etc) and, as a result, isn't compelling, engaging or interesting in any way. I might be missing something but I think I got the gist of it.

So, I ask you, all: WHY ARE WE APPLYING THIS TERM TO ASH AND CO.?

Aside from what was said about, an example I've commonly seen what when Dawn lost the Sinnoh Grand Festival. I was upset but others didn't want Dawn to win as they said the victory would make her a "Mary Sue." Um, how? Dawn might not be a very interesting character to some but since when was she perfect or intended to be a representation of the writer(s)? How would she winning a tournament (on her first go, no less) and taking a giant step towards her goal make her a Mary Sue? This applies to May and Iris as well.

Seriously, while Ash, Misty, May, Dawn, Iris, Brock and Cilan might not be the greatest characters in Pokemon, they barely qualify as Mary Sues/Gary Sues, if you want to get technical.

I could go on but we'd be here all year so just post your replies. I want your honest thoughts so don't make it short.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

It does get over used at times, also Luke is a gary sue not mary sueXD I like Iris, however if [spoil] If she wins the tournament I'm afraid I'm going to have to use this term with her. [/spoil]

 

[matt0044]

It does get over used at times, also Luke is a gary sue not mary sueXD I like Iris, however if [spoil] If she wins the tournament I'm afraid I'm going to have to use this term with her. [/spoil]

How so? Will winning the tournament really make her perfect? Not that I care that much but I don't think Mary Sue would be the right term. Also, how is Luke a Gary Stu?

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

How so? Will winning the tournament really make her perfect? Not that I care that much but I don't think Mary Sue would be the right term. Also, how is Luke a Gary Stu?

[spoil] Yes, cuz its her first real tournament. As it is, she really shouldn't have made it this far but meh I'm ok with it I guess as long as Ash wins. I mean, Ash has done a lot of regions as of now and battled all kinds of villains and even beat elite 4 members for crying out loude. I just think its a little unfair if she wins over a guy who has done all that. Its true this series is kind of like a reset, however due to seeing all that D/P stuff in his room we really can't say it is. Mean-while, here we have a new kid who made it to the top and well I feel its odd for a newbie. [/spoil]

 

[CyberCubed]

Tobias and Richie were the only real major sue's in the anime. Characters with no flaws who were just there so Ash lost.

Harrisson and Tyson had a bit more character to them, so it wasn't as bad with those two.

 

[MidnightMelody]

Hey watch the spoilers goddamn it!

 

[matt0044]

Hey watch the spoilers goddamn it!

You mean the Dawn not winning part? Sorry.

 

[MidnightMelody]

You mean the Dawn not winning part? Sorry.

No I read something about a tournament and a guy named Luke in like the second post.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Hey watch the spoilers goddamn it!

There, I added spoiler tags sorry about that.

 

[deathseer]

The word does get tossed around too much. Much like how people think any Pokemon who battles another has a "rivalry" with it.

As for the flaque Iris gets, it's mostly due to the fact of Ash. Here he is, a Trainer who has competed in 4 Leagues and took out two Legendaries in has last one no less. He has been established as a veteran Trainer and has gone toe to toe with various members of the Elite 4 in different regions, each one commenting on Ash's skills and how much potential he has as a Trainer. Even Cynthia, a Champion, saw that he could be a great Trainer. He has worked with tons of Pokemon and has raised some to be capable of taking down Legendaries (Pikachu, Sceptile) and others who are strong in their own right (Charizard, Snorlax, Infernape).

[spoil]Then we have Iris. A relatively new Trainer whom he have barely even known for a year. She gets some idealized backstory in that she found a Pokemon who managed to beat some noname Trainers,and win a tournament that wasn't even fully examined. It was just a montage of a Drilbur beating 99 weak opponents. But there are some who takes this as it being able to take on some of Ash's strongest.

Said Pokemon has only recently started to listen to her (albeit the thing was stupidly selfish in the first place) and because of that, she was percieved as a noob trainer who pretends to be more skilled than she actually is, explaining why she feels the need to call Ash a "kid". Diminshing his skills makes her feel like she is better, although if she knew Ash's backstory and what he has accomplished so far, I seriously doubt that any sort of insult or teasing would ever leave her mouth. If Brock was still in the series, the moment Iris mentions something like that, he would be the first to correct her, since he's seen Ash through it all. But since he is traveling with two people who don't know him in the slightest, she and Cilan are allowed to get away with it.

Iris' Pokemon also have been shown to not be the strongest or even most talented in the group. Even with Excadrill, it is at the most, as glass cannon. If Excadrill goes down, Iris pretty much loses any battle against any credible Trainer (Ash, Trip). Axew for all intents and purposes is still a baby. Mastering one attack does not make it a viable Pokemon as it is still just one attack. What happens when that attack becomes ineffective? Is it still capable on winning. No it isn't. Unless it becomes insanely plot powered which would only reinforce the negativity that surrounds Iris.

Emonga is a diva would would much rather tag other Pokemon in her place than actually battle. Iris has done nothing to change that instead just shrugging it off, much like she does with her other Pokemon, and yet people belive it can tie with Ash's Snivy, which is laughable at best. Instead of being shown as a lazy glutton who doesn't show the slightest interest in battling, Ash's Snivy has been shown to be one of his premiere Pokemon and one of his strongest on his current roster. But people belive that there is a rivalry there, so that means they have to always battle each other, even though what they has is simply Snivy asserting her maturity in comparison to Ash's other Pokemon, usually stopping Emonga from her ridiculous antics and helping her teammates when they can;t help themselves.

So Iris isn't a Mary Sue like people try to claim. What she is, is incredibly contrived, with the writers trying to portray her as a super Trainer, when she is really the equivalent of Ash starting his journey in Kanto. Iris beating Ash in anything battle related would just spit on everything he worked to achieve up to this point.[/spoil]

 

[Kameinu]

A Mary Sue/Gary Stu is determined by their personality and actions. If all they do and are is be perfect, they are a Sue/Stu. NONE of the anime characters are Sues and Stus. They have their faults, and that's what makes me like them.

Even Dawn, who was surrounded by the likes of Kenny and Zoey, wasn't perfect. She sometimes even beated herself up for no performing as she'd like in contests.

The fact that Iris isn't a great as she thinks also makes her a not sue.

People should STOP calling them that. NONE of them are.

As Cybercubed said, only Ritchie and Tobias. And thank Arceus they're gone.

 

[Caseydia]

I don't really get the real meaning behind the terms. But it really needs to stop though.

 

[matt0044]

I don't really get the real meaning behind the terms. But it really needs to stop though.

I suggest you search for the term "Mary Sue" on TV Tropes to get more details. Careful as you might get addicted to the site.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

I always thought if she {New character} won some thing out of the hat she'd be considered a mary sue, no? If she doesn't than we can talk.

 

[matt0044]

I always thought if she won some thing out of the hat she'd be considered a mary sue, no? If she doesn't than we can talk.

Iris winning a tournament out of the hat would not make her a Mary Sue. The whole thing would just be contrived as previous said. I suggest that you look into this term Mary Sue a bit more to enlighten yourself.

 

[JennaJayfeather]

I think we are abusing it ^^; I'm not trying to read this TOO much because this is one of those things that I get rather TICKED off about if I read the wrong thing ^^; but I see people go calling them a Gary Stu/Mary Sue when really Pokemon isn't that DEEP of an anime in the first place. I could maybe understand with other characters, but isn't Mary/Gary Stu mainly used for OC's anyways?

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Iris winning a tournament out of the hat would not make her a Mary Sue. The whole thing would just be contrived as previous said. I suggest that you look into this term Mary Sue a bit more to enlighten yourself.

Its not just that, she was a new character that suddenly went [spoil] To the top in a tournament. [/spoil] That's not apart of mary sue?

 

[matt0044]

Its not just that, she was a new character that suddenly went [spoil] To the top in a tournament. [/spoil] That's not apart of mary sue?

Do I have to repeat myself?

A Mary Sue is a female character who people hate because she's perfect in every way conceivable (sorta like Cilan without anything likable about them). Iris has her fair share of flaws and people here (like you) like her.

Also, a single event like a character winning a tournament when he/she shouldn't have can't make the character a Mary Sue/Gary Stu (snap!) like that? The character needs to be perfect and flawless from the start of the story. Was Iris perfect from the start? NO!

 

[An00bis]

People need to visit their local TVtropes more.

I think what we're seeing here is that people recognize that the cast fits into certain sterotypes and occassionally has their actions or achievements practically given to them by the writers for the sake of progression. Since they are unfamiliar that there are several standard roles that a written character can fall into they tend to mislabel them as a Mary/Gary-Su. Without a doubt the anime uses standby sterotypes for writing their characters, but most characters are fleshed out enough to dodge the Mary/Gary bullet.

 

[JennaJayfeather]

Honestly this stuff only fits for characters that aren't main characters. I don't know about you guys, but when I think of a Mary Sue I think of someone perfect, beautiful, people like them for no reason, and (most importantly) BLAND. None of the main characters fit in there because they all have their character quirks. I won't call them "flaws" because I don't think that's the right thing to call all of them.

As for a Gary Stu I think it's the same thing (but switch beautiful with "hot") I don't even think Dento fits in there because he's pretty much a dork. He's talented, cute, his fanbase loves him but he doesn't have the same "vibes" I think Dento fits more into a bishounen stereotype than a Gary Stu =/