Locormus
Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Now I don't care about the M8 since it's proven that Infernape and Greninja won't be used, this team that trained off screen is going to blow all those losers calling themselves champions.
Citations?
The Champions are usually regarded as the most powerful people in their regions, and these people have had build-up to establish their power and importance. They're great candidates to make up the top 8.
I wouldn't want Brandon or Paul because Ash beat them when he was much less experienced. There's less hype there. Likewise, Ingo/Emmet, Palmer, and the other Frontier Brains never had as much build-up or felt all that strong in comparison to the Champions. Elite Four are also not that impressive, since they'd be below their Champions.
I really wouldn't want to see some important game character who never debuted, like Benga. I love Benga, but the anime didn't spend years building him up or showing him off, so it wouldn't be as satisfying.
That's why I proposed to introduce Benga as a series long rival.
Until recently both Raihan (gymleader) and Flint (E4) were part of the M8. Having all champions be Master8 by the end feels like a copout to me. Considering the above names, I definitely feel as if Palmer would've worked and we could've had a Barry comeback as well.
They could've added Trace as a Rival in theory. Pikachu vs Jolteon is always nice.
Honestly, ever since Infernape whacked Volkner's Jolteon I really doubt we will ever see a capable Jolteon ever again.
Half of the champions are researchers. I don't have a problem with Gary not being there but if they wanted him, they could have put him there without any problem. Gary at the end of AG showed that he was still keeping up with battling.
Lance: Champion, Dragon-type specialist and international "G-Man".
Steven: Champion and Rock Collector. Not really a researcher.
Cynthia: Champion and interested in Sinnoh Mythology. I wouldn't call her a researcher.
Iris: Dragon-type Master and.. recently become Champion.
Diantha: Champion and Actress
Alola: Ash is the Alola League winner.. he's a research assistant at best...
Leon: Champion and definitely not a researcher.
So I'm assuming you're referring to Steven, Cynthia and Ash as fullblown researchers? That's a reach in my eyes..
Gary literally said: "This was my last championship I'm competing in".. the claims of putting him in Master8 or even making him the Champion over established high rank trainers like Alder, Palmer or simply high ranked E4/BF and 8thGymleaders like Clair, Volkner or heck, Wulfric.
Having Gym Leaders and Elite Four members ranked higher than Champions would make the tournament look illegitimate.
Ash literally kicked a Gymleader out of the Master8 in the very last chance he got. Flint also got kicked recently. Every Master8 entry would obviously be earned as we've seen Ash compete against similarly strong characters.
Gary is still shown to be a relatively strong and competent trainer. He never "Denounced battling". He just decided to stopped battling competitively. If you recall, Gary in Sinnoh defeated Post Battle Frontier Ash (And Ash had competed both in the Hoenn League and also BF before this).
Would you call the PWC a competition? If no.. dafuq. If yes, then how in the heck can you acknowledge that in Johto Photo Finish Gary spoke the words that the Silver Conference was his LAST competition and STILL argue that he would compete in the PWC ánd somehow went out of his way to claim a Champion-status.. by somehow not doing another competition?!?
From an anime perspective, there was literally nothing that suggested at the end of the series that Iris was on her way of becoming the Regional Champion. Her goal was a lot more similar to Misty which was to become an expert in her type.
Hence, the obvious reason why her character was written to be the Regional Champion is because of the connection with the games. (Her anime character has no connection with her in-game character other than using Dragon-type pokemon).
Iris goal was becoming a Dragon-type Master. During Best Wishes, we saw in a flashback that she had a history with Drayden and Opelucid City and that his recommendation was the reason that the Village Elder sent Iris on her journey with Axew and that she could become the Opelucid Gymleader at one point (which definitely was a nod to her BW-game counterpart). After she lost to Drayden the second time, she promises to become stronger and goes on another journey to become stronger and fight other Dragon-type specialists.
So I don't agree with your assesment that there were no signs that she could be a Champion by her next appearance as Drayden already alluded to her achieving bigger things (nodding to game-reference) and her promise to him in Opelucid (potentially a reference to the B2W2 game-reference).
It seems as if you're purposefully looking over moments in the anime that would allude to Iris current status and at the same time purposefully ignore the crucial moment that signifies that Gary wouldn't be interested in competing in a large scale competition.
As for the point about "Dragon Master", the previous commenter was arguing that it would be strange for Gary to join the PWC, when his goal is "Research". So the fact that Iris competed in the Regional League, battled the Elite Four and the Regional Champions "Despite wanting to be the Dragon-type expert" further sets precedence that Gary could also have done something indirect that could've contributed towards his main goal.
You could argue Iris becoming champion and taking part in the PWC indirectly also contributes towards her Goal to be the Dragon Master. A similar situation could also have been written for Gary. (Maybe he wants to Research Mewtwo/Mew and wants to get strong enough to hold his own in battle against this pokemon? )
Iris made a promise to Drayden to become stronger. Gary announced that he would NOT compete in large scale competitions. And yet here we are with you arguing against the characters own words.
It wouldn't necessarily be strange for a researcher to be in the PWC, but this SPECIFIC researcher claimed that he didn't want to compete in large scale competitions. And that's why it makes zero sense for him to be in the PWC or become the Kanto Champion without making up some seriously stretchy headcanons.
I could have seen Palmer here, but this type of formal battle setting really doesn’t seem like Brandon’s speed. Most of the Frontier Brains in AG were kind of inconsequential overall and it would be more of a stretch to bring them back. The rest of them like the other Sinnoh FBs and Benga have never shown up in the anime, so them not participating is just the show choosing characters who have been on the show already.
Hottake: ProjectMew will face/heel-turn and Brandon will show up in that context.
The other AG BF are inconsequential. Like maybe Annabel if they gave her a Mega Alakazam or something, but even that still feels like an UltraClass opponent. I suggested Sinnoh BF Dahlia because she has a cool design and it kinda sucks that that take from Platinum got skipped.
But yeah, fine with the selection we got. Could've seen some Champions be too busy in terms of schedule to open up a slot or two (Lance's international G-Menduties/Diantha's acting career).
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