Are you happy that the Masters 8 just consisting of Champions?

[Locormus]

Now I don't care about the M8 since it's proven that Infernape and Greninja won't be used, this team that trained off screen is going to blow all those losers calling themselves champions.

Citations?

The Champions are usually regarded as the most powerful people in their regions, and these people have had build-up to establish their power and importance. They're great candidates to make up the top 8.

I wouldn't want Brandon or Paul because Ash beat them when he was much less experienced. There's less hype there. Likewise, Ingo/Emmet, Palmer, and the other Frontier Brains never had as much build-up or felt all that strong in comparison to the Champions. Elite Four are also not that impressive, since they'd be below their Champions.

I really wouldn't want to see some important game character who never debuted, like Benga. I love Benga, but the anime didn't spend years building him up or showing him off, so it wouldn't be as satisfying.

That's why I proposed to introduce Benga as a series long rival.

Until recently both Raihan (gymleader) and Flint (E4) were part of the M8. Having all champions be Master8 by the end feels like a copout to me. Considering the above names, I definitely feel as if Palmer would've worked and we could've had a Barry comeback as well.

They could've added Trace as a Rival in theory. Pikachu vs Jolteon is always nice.

Honestly, ever since Infernape whacked Volkner's Jolteon I really doubt we will ever see a capable Jolteon ever again.

Half of the champions are researchers. I don't have a problem with Gary not being there but if they wanted him, they could have put him there without any problem. Gary at the end of AG showed that he was still keeping up with battling.

Lance: Champion, Dragon-type specialist and international "G-Man".
Steven: Champion and Rock Collector. Not really a researcher.
Cynthia: Champion and interested in Sinnoh Mythology. I wouldn't call her a researcher.
Iris: Dragon-type Master and.. recently become Champion.
Diantha: Champion and Actress
Alola: Ash is the Alola League winner.. he's a research assistant at best...
Leon: Champion and definitely not a researcher.

So I'm assuming you're referring to Steven, Cynthia and Ash as fullblown researchers? That's a reach in my eyes..

Gary literally said: "This was my last championship I'm competing in".. the claims of putting him in Master8 or even making him the Champion over established high rank trainers like Alder, Palmer or simply high ranked E4/BF and 8thGymleaders like Clair, Volkner or heck, Wulfric.

Having Gym Leaders and Elite Four members ranked higher than Champions would make the tournament look illegitimate.

Ash literally kicked a Gymleader out of the Master8 in the very last chance he got. Flint also got kicked recently. Every Master8 entry would obviously be earned as we've seen Ash compete against similarly strong characters.

Gary is still shown to be a relatively strong and competent trainer. He never "Denounced battling". He just decided to stopped battling competitively. If you recall, Gary in Sinnoh defeated Post Battle Frontier Ash (And Ash had competed both in the Hoenn League and also BF before this).

Would you call the PWC a competition? If no.. dafuq. If yes, then how in the heck can you acknowledge that in Johto Photo Finish Gary spoke the words that the Silver Conference was his LAST competition and STILL argue that he would compete in the PWC ánd somehow went out of his way to claim a Champion-status.. by somehow not doing another competition?!?

From an anime perspective, there was literally nothing that suggested at the end of the series that Iris was on her way of becoming the Regional Champion. Her goal was a lot more similar to Misty which was to become an expert in her type.

Hence, the obvious reason why her character was written to be the Regional Champion is because of the connection with the games. (Her anime character has no connection with her in-game character other than using Dragon-type pokemon).

Iris goal was becoming a Dragon-type Master. During Best Wishes, we saw in a flashback that she had a history with Drayden and Opelucid City and that his recommendation was the reason that the Village Elder sent Iris on her journey with Axew and that she could become the Opelucid Gymleader at one point (which definitely was a nod to her BW-game counterpart). After she lost to Drayden the second time, she promises to become stronger and goes on another journey to become stronger and fight other Dragon-type specialists.

So I don't agree with your assesment that there were no signs that she could be a Champion by her next appearance as Drayden already alluded to her achieving bigger things (nodding to game-reference) and her promise to him in Opelucid (potentially a reference to the B2W2 game-reference).

It seems as if you're purposefully looking over moments in the anime that would allude to Iris current status and at the same time purposefully ignore the crucial moment that signifies that Gary wouldn't be interested in competing in a large scale competition.

As for the point about "Dragon Master", the previous commenter was arguing that it would be strange for Gary to join the PWC, when his goal is "Research". So the fact that Iris competed in the Regional League, battled the Elite Four and the Regional Champions "Despite wanting to be the Dragon-type expert" further sets precedence that Gary could also have done something indirect that could've contributed towards his main goal.

You could argue Iris becoming champion and taking part in the PWC indirectly also contributes towards her Goal to be the Dragon Master. A similar situation could also have been written for Gary. (Maybe he wants to Research Mewtwo/Mew and wants to get strong enough to hold his own in battle against this pokemon? )

Iris made a promise to Drayden to become stronger. Gary announced that he would NOT compete in large scale competitions. And yet here we are with you arguing against the characters own words.

It wouldn't necessarily be strange for a researcher to be in the PWC, but this SPECIFIC researcher claimed that he didn't want to compete in large scale competitions. And that's why it makes zero sense for him to be in the PWC or become the Kanto Champion without making up some seriously stretchy headcanons.

I could have seen Palmer here, but this type of formal battle setting really doesn’t seem like Brandon’s speed. Most of the Frontier Brains in AG were kind of inconsequential overall and it would be more of a stretch to bring them back. The rest of them like the other Sinnoh FBs and Benga have never shown up in the anime, so them not participating is just the show choosing characters who have been on the show already.

Hottake: ProjectMew will face/heel-turn and Brandon will show up in that context.

The other AG BF are inconsequential. Like maybe Annabel if they gave her a Mega Alakazam or something, but even that still feels like an UltraClass opponent. I suggested Sinnoh BF Dahlia because she has a cool design and it kinda sucks that that take from Platinum got skipped.

But yeah, fine with the selection we got. Could've seen some Champions be too busy in terms of schedule to open up a slot or two (Lance's international G-Menduties/Diantha's acting career).

 

[SatoSereFan224888]

I’m happy. At least when Ash wins, it would feel satisfying because he beat some of the best trainers in the world. 8 seems like the perfect number. Anything more would make it feel less special because having 8 makes it more of an elite group.

 

[Jangobadass]

I kind of saw it coming, but I would've like a little more variety.

I can understand a Champ for (almost) each region because of the Anniversaries...but it feels a little predictable. Some other really strong trainers beside Champions would've been a treat, or at least for me.

 

[Sham]

I loved that Iris kept her promised especially since this series is funny with “promises”

Also I can’t believe me being an Iris stan caused all of this chaos.

But that is a good point; where is Barry? As much Sinnoh/DP promotion we got with Cynthia, Paul, Flint, Team Galatic and Brock (yes I’m counting him since he’s apart of the DP group) and Barry couldn’t appear? Is his voice actor unavailable?

I kind of saw it coming, but I would've like a little more variety.

I can understand a Champ for (almost) each region because of the Anniversaries...but it feels a little predictable. Some other really strong trainers beside Champions would've been a treat, or at least for me.

Not sure if I said this but I guess Alain and Diantha both being on those roaster at the very least means that they’re on equal footing or one of them is slightly stronger than another.

Does this mean that it’s possible that people in other regions can be just as strong as the Champion? You might be right.

 

[Zweilous]

That's why I proposed to introduce Benga as a series long rival.

You could introduce any character in the series and build them up, sure. But unlike new faces, the other characters all had years of build-up, much more prestige in and out of the anime, are more recognizable, and would be a bigger deal if Ash beat them. It makes more sense to go with them. Yeah you COULD develop newer faces, but that means shafting characters who deserve it more, and fans would most likely prefer.

Until recently both Raihan (gymleader) and Flint (E4) were part of the M8. Having all champions be Master8 by the end feels like a copout to me. Considering the above names, I definitely feel as if Palmer would've worked and we could've had a Barry comeback as well.

How is it a copout? Those two were strong and manages to break through briefly, but they placed very low in the ranks and were were weeded out. And since the Champions bar the newcomers were highly-ranked, they were likely never touched by Raihan and Flint.

I can see Alain being switched out for Palmer, but I wouldn't enjoy it. Palmer only appeared in two episodes of DP, beat Ash in a casual match, and never had any major impact. Even his son was unimportant in the long run. Alain's way more deserving and he's a less predictable choice.

 

[WaterShuriken]

Not sure if this is related to the topic of this thread, but I feel like what could happen is that Alain might challenge Ash to a battle outside of the tournament since PWC participants are allowed to battle those within their own class like Raihan and Flint did against Leon.

This would give Ash more room to challenge the other champions during the Tournament and still exact his Kalos League victory revenge match and utilize Greninja.

I don't think individual battles are possible anymore since the Masters Eight are locked in. If Ash had beaten Raihan before the final promotion match took place and had time to do a single match against anyone from #2-7 like Alain, that would have been possible.

Actually, if Ash beat Raihan earlier and was #8 and then challenged Alain if he was #7, their ranks would have switched and Alain would have had to battle Paul in the final promotion match and we would have been able to see a match against Ash's two strongest rivals.

 

[Rune Knight]

I don't think individual battles are possible anymore since the Masters Eight are locked in. If Ash had beaten Raihan before the final promotion match took place and had time to do a single match against anyone from #2-7 like Alain, that would have been possible.

Actually, if Ash beat Raihan earlier and was #8 and then challenged Alain if he was #7, their ranks would have switched and Alain would have had to battle Paul in the final promotion match and we would have been able to see a match against Ash's two strongest rivals.

Yeah, it is mostly wishful thinking on my part.

Sadly, this would mean that we will not get to see Ash challenge all opponents, which is weird in the sense that in one opening shot we see this:

Spoiler

Probably wasn't meant to be taken literally. Regardless, I'm happy that the series has come this far and do not expect the writers to exceed beyond what is possible, and look forward to however Ash's time in the Master Class is handled.

 

[AJ97]

Citations?



That's why I proposed to introduce Benga as a series long rival.

Until recently both Raihan (gymleader) and Flint (E4) were part of the M8. Having all champions be Master8 by the end feels like a copout to me. Considering the above names, I definitely feel as if Palmer would've worked and we could've had a Barry comeback as well.



Honestly, ever since Infernape whacked Volkner's Jolteon I really doubt we will ever see a capable Jolteon ever again.



Lance: Champion, Dragon-type specialist and international "G-Man".
Steven: Champion and Rock Collector. Not really a researcher.
Cynthia: Champion and interested in Sinnoh Mythology. I wouldn't call her a researcher.
Iris: Dragon-type Master and.. recently become Champion.
Diantha: Champion and Actress
Alola: Ash is the Alola League winner.. he's a research assistant at best...
Leon: Champion and definitely not a researcher.

So I'm assuming you're referring to Steven, Cynthia and Ash as fullblown researchers? That's a reach in my eyes..

Gary literally said: "This was my last championship I'm competing in".. the claims of putting him in Master8 or even making him the Champion over established high rank trainers like Alder, Palmer or simply high ranked E4/BF and 8thGymleaders like Clair, Volkner or heck, Wulfric.



Ash literally kicked a Gymleader out of the Master8 in the very last chance he got. Flint also got kicked recently. Every Master8 entry would obviously be earned as we've seen Ash compete against similarly strong characters.



Would you call the PWC a competition? If no.. dafuq. If yes, then how in the heck can you acknowledge that in Johto Photo Finish Gary spoke the words that the Silver Conference was his LAST competition and STILL argue that he would compete in the PWC ánd somehow went out of his way to claim a Champion-status.. by somehow not doing another competition?!?



Iris goal was becoming a Dragon-type Master. During Best Wishes, we saw in a flashback that she had a history with Drayden and Opelucid City and that his recommendation was the reason that the Village Elder sent Iris on her journey with Axew and that she could become the Opelucid Gymleader at one point (which definitely was a nod to her BW-game counterpart). After she lost to Drayden the second time, she promises to become stronger and goes on another journey to become stronger and fight other Dragon-type specialists.

So I don't agree with your assesment that there were no signs that she could be a Champion by her next appearance as Drayden already alluded to her achieving bigger things (nodding to game-reference) and her promise to him in Opelucid (potentially a reference to the B2W2 game-reference).

It seems as if you're purposefully looking over moments in the anime that would allude to Iris current status and at the same time purposefully ignore the crucial moment that signifies that Gary wouldn't be interested in competing in a large scale competition.



Iris made a promise to Drayden to become stronger. Gary announced that he would NOT compete in large scale competitions. And yet here we are with you arguing against the characters own words.

It wouldn't necessarily be strange for a researcher to be in the PWC, but this SPECIFIC researcher claimed that he didn't want to compete in large scale competitions. And that's why it makes zero sense for him to be in the PWC or become the Kanto Champion without making up some seriously stretchy headcanons.



Hottake: ProjectMew will face/heel-turn and Brandon will show up in that context.

The other AG BF are inconsequential. Like maybe Annabel if they gave her a Mega Alakazam or something, but even that still feels like an UltraClass opponent. I suggested Sinnoh BF Dahlia because she has a cool design and it kinda sucks that that take from Platinum got skipped.

But yeah, fine with the selection we got. Could've seen some Champions be too busy in terms of schedule to open up a slot or two (Lance's international G-Menduties/Diantha's acting career).

Every single thing you mentioned about Iris could also be tied to Misty. She too was a type specialist who was focused on being the best at her type, attached to a specific gym, etc. Yet, we don't see her as the new Kanto Champion, do we?

The reason Iris is the Regional Champion is because of the connection of the game. So are you saying, if Black/White 2 didn't exist, Iris would've been randomly written as the new Regional Champion (Anime exclusive)?

So based on this, since Gary does have ties to Blue his game counterpart, they could've also written him as the Kanto Champion if they really wanted to.

People change their minds. They could've pretty much said Gary missed battling and decided to get back to it. Or maybe he realised he wanted to get stronger to help his research and decided to battle competitively, to get stronger.
Take Alain for example. The guy collected 8 badges and the took part in the regional League Primarily to get a battle against Ash. Sure he also said there was the additional motivation of getting Mega evolution energy to save Chespin, but he didn't give a damn about competing or winning the title etc Now we see that Alain has also taken part in the PWC and went all out to get to the Master Class. We don't even know the real reason he even bothered to enter the PWC.

So are you gonna hold Gary to something that was said a decade ago? I'm pretty sure Ash also said he'd come back for Pidgeot and Primape at one point.

 

[AJ97]

Honestly, we barely ever see these individuals doing something so of course they have other interests while also maintaining their Champion status. All we know is that they always accept battles from random people who request it.

You literally just answered the very same argument you’re against. Why Gary won’t be in the Masters 8 or return as Kanto Champion? Gary is still shown to be a relatively strong and competent trainer. He never "Denounced battling". He just decided to stopped battling competitively.

Gary retired from Pokémon Gyms. He got his 10 badges from Kanto, wisened up to discovering he wants to follow in his grandfather’s footsteps and become a Pokémon Researcher, and has since, stuck to it. He has no desire to become a Pokémon Champion, could’ve been offered the position but refused, and would rather continue traveling and studying on whatever he’s trying to learn more about. His past returns emphasized on that. Iris on the other hand, her goal was to defeat Drayden. She didn’t want to claim the title Gym Leader (just as Misty didn’t but ultimately accepted it) nor did she want to strive to be like the Elder in her village. She’s always had a talent for battling, has a history of having a winning streak, and it doesn’t surprise me that she would eventually climb up the ranks to becoming the strongest Trainer in her region. She’s very deserving of the title but was introduced in a saga that devolved battling.

And her goal of becoming Dragon Master is more similar to Ash’s dream than Misty. Their only similarity is wanting to be the strongest type Trainer yet we barely, if ever, saw Misty train her Pokémon or do more than just capture Water Type Pokémon and swim with them which is also why her status as the Cerulean Gym Leader fits her.

Iris has shown time and time again what she means by being a Dragon Master. She wants to understand, touch, and calm the hearts of Dragons. There have been episodes that depicts her using her skills and building experience. And hasn’t she shown to place herself into battling tournaments and travel the world battling other Trainers to get stronger. It really isn’t a far fetched idea that Iris eventually became Champion. You’re debating about a character with a lengthy history of battling interest when Brock spent one episode realizing he wants to be a Pokémon Doctor (excusing that he does have experience nursing Pokémon back to health.)

1) Gary decided to stop battling competitively after Johto League. Not after Kanto. Even if he did, he could absolutely go back to it if he wanted to. There are 100 possible ways a convincing scenario could've been written. Just Like Alain entered the Kalos League Primarily to battle Ash and to get Mega Evolution Energy for Chespin, maybe Gary felt in order to research Legendary Pokemon like Mewtwo better, he'd need to get stronger so why not start battling competitively again?

2) Are you serious about Misty lol? Did you even see the rematch between Misty and Ash during the Sun and Moon series? If anything, Misty arguably gave Ash the strongest fight out of all his travel companions ("Until of course, Iris returned in Journeys"). Everything you say about Iris could very well be said to Misty. Yes one could argue Iris in general was better and was shown to be much more talented (No Argument there). That said, the only reason she's a Regional Champion is because of the tie to her games "PERIOD".

She would not have been written as a Regional Champion if it weren't for the same. Strictly from an anime perspective, Trip narratively had a greater chance of being the Regional Champion given the fact that he was written as Ash's main Rival who was talented and had strong aspirations to defeat Alder.

The simple fact is, if Iris could be written in as the Regional Champion due to her tie with the games, the exact same could be done with Gary.
I mean, they don't even have to make Gary the champion but they could've still included him in the PWC if they really wanted.

In fact, most people actually expected this and even thought that Gary was going to be the one who defeats Ash in the Hyper Class.
You don't need to take part in the PWC just to win. Like for example, Ash's motivation in the PWC was not to be the Strongest Trainer or win the title, it was mostly to challenge the Strongest Trainer in an official battle.

Gary could've entered the PWC to get stronger for personal reasons.

Your whole point about claiming Gary shouldn't be in the PWC cause of something said back after the Johto League, is just plain silly.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Again, where’s a source to that? Even then Palmer & Brandon are clearly above their peers in the same way Volkner/Raihan are above their fellow Gym Leaders and the Champions are stronger than their E4. And if Iris can come back as a Champion tier character, why can’t any of these characters? If we can say an E4 like Flint and Gym Leader like Raihan can rival Champions, why can’t Frontier Brains?

Considering where Ash was at DP, where he was significantly stronger than his level at BF, and he was still way weaker than champions, it just would feel so unsatisfying narratively to have his BF bosses he conquered be there instead of literal champions who were treated untouchables throughout the series
Not having any of the Champions just wouldn't feel right, therefore we really only had one wild card slot entry and they chose Alain which lets be honest, if it wasn't for the leaks was really unpredictable and most didn't expect it to happen.

 

[Sham]

1) Gary decided to stop battling competitively after Johto League. Not after Kanto. Even if he did, he could absolutely go back to it if he wanted to. There are 100 possible ways a convincing scenario could've been written. Just Like Alain entered the Kalos League Primarily to battle Ash and to get Mega Evolution Energy for Chespin, maybe Gary felt in order to research Legendary Pokemon like Mewtwo better, he'd need to get stronger so why not start battling competitively again?

2) Are you serious about Misty lol? Did you even see the rematch between Misty and Ash during the Sun and Moon series? If anything, Misty arguably gave Ash the strongest fight out of all his travel companions ("Until of course, Iris returned in Journeys"). Everything you say about Iris could very well be said to Misty. Yes one could argue Iris in general was better and was shown to be much more talented (No Argument there). That said, the only reason she's a Regional Champion is because of the tie to her games "PERIOD".

She would not have been written as a Regional Champion if it weren't for the same. Strictly from an anime perspective, Trip narratively had a greater chance of being the Regional Champion given the fact that he was written as Ash's main Rival who was talented and had strong aspirations to defeat Alder.

The simple fact is, if Iris could be written in as the Regional Champion due to her tie with the games, the exact same could be done with Gary.
I mean, they don't even have to make Gary the champion but they could've still included him in the PWC if they really wanted.

In fact, most people actually expected this and even thought that Gary was going to be the one who defeats Ash in the Hyper Class.
You don't need to take part in the PWC just to win. Like for example, Ash's motivation in the PWC was not to be the Strongest Trainer or win the title, it was mostly to challenge the Strongest Trainer in an official battle.

Gary could've entered the PWC to get stronger for personal reasons.

Your whole point about claiming Gary shouldn't be in the PWC cause of something said back after the Johto League, is just plain silly.

he was written as Ash's main Rival who was talented

Now, see this is where I have to sound the alarm because you had a point until this.

Okay you’re really dragging this at this point. How did Trip have a better chance of defeating Alder when he lost every single tournament (besides literally the last one) relatively early but Iris won the very first one? How the F is Trip more likely to become regional Champion but was immediately knocked out in the league? This man was knocked out by Cilan and Bianca relatively early. He got knocked out in his first matches (like the Unova league) and lost early in those tournaments. How sway? He never even made it into the semi finals in none of those tournaments. Explain how this makes sense.

You’re arguing that her ties to the game influenced her becoming the Champion. Nobody is arguing against that. What’s being argued is that you’re simultaneously trying to discredit Iris for being Champion because she’s tied to the game but uplifting Gary like this makes sense. You have cognitive dissonance. It’s possible that Iris COULD of been the regional Champion based on what we’ve seen and admit she became Champion because of the games. Nobody is denying this. In fact you’re arguing BLUE’S role in the game should make Gary Champion. What’s the difference?

You’re arguing about hypothetical power levels because Gary defeated Ash’s Pikachu way back in BF as if that means something and as @Panky.. said that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things because he’s a glass canon. The entire point of Gary winning that battle was to get Ash to express interest in Sinnoh.

Misty was never on Iris’ level and this was based on their arcs during the series they were on. And this isn’t a “Iris was better than Misty thing” every single girl after Misty was stronger. Granted this is because of how OS was written but until SM Misty wasn’t the best. He wasn’t arguing that Misty was weak now, he was comparing OS Misty to BW Iris which you insisted on doing. Now you’re moving goal post and comparing SM Misty to BW Iris.

 

[Psajdak]

I just don't see Iris being above Gary.


Also, tired of Cynthia.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Nope, the lineup is kind of boring and predictable (and it doesn't help some of these Champions were never shown battling in the PWC before). The anime basically can't repeat the same stunt ever again for anything, not even that alluded Champions League (if it was real).

Doesn't help that half of these battles are surely going to be skipped over, so the hype is much less of an impact but actually a shove.

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

Would have switched around the rankings but good otherwise.

 

[Sham]

Nope, the lineup is kind of boring and predictable (and it doesn't help some of these Champions were never shown before). The anime basically can't repeat the same stunt ever again for anything, not even that alluded Champions League (if it was real).

Doesn't help that half of these battles are surely going to be skipped over, so the hype is much less of an impact but actually a shove.

Which Champions were “never shown before”?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Which Champions were “never shown before”?

Should have said that better. I meant Steven, Diantha, and Alain not showing up during the PWC until now. We can easily tell which of them are getting booted out before Ash can get to them.

 

[Sham]

Should have said that better. I meant Steven, Diantha, and Alain not showing up during the PWC until now. We can easily tell which of them are getting booted out before Ash can get to them.

Ah. So you would of preferred that the Master 8 would of not been a secret?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Ah. So you would of preferred that the Master 8 would of not been a secret?

Yeah. It's also incredible that no one reported that all the freaking regional (and a league) champions were participating in the first place. How does one even not point it out before the final battles?

 

[Sham]

Yeah. It's also incredible that no one reported that all the freaking regional (and a league) champions were participating in the first place. How does one even not point it out before the final battles?

I think that has a an explanation. Iris was revealed to already be competing (plus we already knew she was there) and just started. We knew Cynthia, Lance and Leon were there and Alain isn’t a Champion. I think the only outliers here are Steven and Diantha tbh. I do get your point though.

 

[Ignition]

I loved that Iris kept her promised especially since this series is funny with “promises”

Also I can’t believe me being an Iris stan caused all of this chaos.

But that is a good point; where is Barry? As much Sinnoh/DP promotion we got with Cynthia, Paul, Flint, Team Galatic and Brock (yes I’m counting him since he’s apart of the DP group) and Barry couldn’t appear? Is his voice actor unavailable?

Barry actually has the same VA as Raihan (and Flint in Masters funnily enough) Tatsuhisa Suzuki but lost a lot of his roles after rumors of an affair with his wife. For his most recent role as Raihan, he played up until episode 45.

Considering where Ash was at DP, where he was significantly stronger than his level at BF, and he was still way weaker than champions, it just would feel so unsatisfying narratively to have his BF bosses he conquered be there instead of literal champions who were treated untouchables throughout the series
Not having any of the Champions just wouldn't feel right, therefore we really only had one wild card slot entry and they chose Alain which lets be honest, if it wasn't for the leaks was really unpredictable and most didn't expect it to happen.

Don’t think he was significantly stronger in DP then he was at BF. There’s never been some big jump in strength in him from one series to its successor aside from BW which has been bashed to death. And, again, not asking for all the Frontier Brains to show up so it’s not he’s going through another gauntlet of them. I specifically point out Brandon (who Ash barely beat with his strongest Pokémon at the time) and Palmer (who he didn’t beat). As I said before, if a Gym Leader and Elite 4 can be up there with Champions, there’s nothing stopping them from adding a Frontier Brain who’s at least on par with the latter. Every Champion being there wouldn’t have been unsatisfying because he’s likely not going to fight them all anyway. Alain is a really easy choice to predict once you realize that Alder was likely not coming back after Iris took his place and Wallace wasn’t a champion as of XY (plus it’s more Charizard shilling).

Regardless of how you feel about it, saying that someone wanted otherwise just for gimmicks or for the sake of it is being willingly ignorant after people have said otherwise.