Armored Core: All as One (Discussion Thread)

[TheSequelReturns]

Don't worry Kamotz, I think a lot of people on here have been a bit busy lately, myself included. Real life has to come first after all, and you certainly have a good reason for not being around as much.

I've hit a bit of inspiration with the power armor idea actually, so I'll be ready to go whichever option you choose.

 

[Kamotz]

Regarding the "power armor vs. mini mecha" debate, what do you guys think about this idea: Why not do both? A powered-armor that plugs in and links up with the mini mecha.

I keep coming back to the issue of controlling the machines. The system I used last time (the AMS/aptitude/Irregular-ness) was supposed to link (neurologically) to the machine, but there was no physical connection between the AC and the pilot, it was wireless, I guess...which just seemed...unlikely. Having to rely on wireless signals for such precise, high-speed movements didn't really sit well with me. A more physical connection just felt better (and continues to play into my overarching theme of what makes us human, the whole man v. monster idea, where human ends and machine begins, and our humanity in general). I dunno, does that make sense to you guys?

At the same time, the physical/emotional distance between the pilot and who they're fighting is greater in a mecha. It's a different type of psychology, a bit more naive and more likely to later lead to sudden feelings of guilt and angst. Fighting in a powered armor, the pilot is right there, doing all the fighting, personally. It makes for a (potentially) more hardened character, which I'm not sure is as interesting, but the things you can do with a powered armor (story-wise and scale-wise) are super-fun.

 

[TheSequelReturns]

Huh... I never thought of that option. I don't see why we couldn't do both. It could get a bit disjointed depending on how the focus shifts from mecha to armor and back are handled, but it could work. In that case, the mecha would be more or less like an exo-suit for the armor. The only major downside I can see here is that the powered armor would probably be treated as more of a last resort / stealthy alternative to the actual mecha, which would bring the mecha back into the forefront of any head-on battle. Just not sure how well that would all work together. Sticking with one or the other would give us more focus I think.

I assumed that the pilot suits interfaced with the seats or something in the last one. If we run mecha, it'd be a bit harder to really get intergrated like that unless we go with some sort of helmet-interface in the cockpit. And if we go that route, we could even do some sort of mental control of the mecha, having no need for a physical interface like a keyboard or joystick. With the armor, its a lot easier, just have the helmet of the suit have sensors that touch the head (or even "plug into" the head ala The Matrix) of the pilot.

That's one of the reasons I really like mecha. It gives warfare an almost impersonal feeling, but at the same time the implications of just what a pilot is doing can really come back to haunt them. Makes for some interesting character development. And like I pointed out last time, the armor makes it much more personal. Its like the difference between pulling the trigger of a sniper rifle and hacking someone in two with a sword. There's pluses and minuses to each, but the question is what sort of feel do you want to go for? Do you want to have the story keep the same sort of themes and development as the previous RP or do you want to go for a darker/more personal edge and see where that leads?

Or, if you think doing both would work, how would you balance it? Would there be a bigger focus on the armor or the mechas?

In reference to the humanity vs machine theme, what if cybernetic implants were required to interface fully with AMS-capable mechs/armor? So when you pilot a mecha/suit, you literally plug into it. Some people would see that as becoming one and the same with the machine. Going the armor route, that could even open such things as the pilot feeling physical pain when their suit gets damaged, as though it were their body. Going the mecha route, that could open things such as having a person capable of killing an entire city block with but a thought. Power like that has to get to you. Then there's the implications of impersonally killing people with the ease of thinking about it. Just some idea to think about.

I'll be re-using Kotomi either way, but I don't think I'll pull Beatrice and Theo back if we go the armor route. It just doesn't suit them. I've got another character or two in the works for the armor route.

 

[storymasterb]

Hm, I'll probably either go for Seth again, or invent a whole new character, possibly leaning towards the latter. I do have a concept image which I'm basing the design of the armor/mecha on, namely this: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110925214525/warhammer40k/images/d/d7/O%27Shaserra3.jpg

As for the armor/mecha debate, I do kind of like the idea of the armor acting as the interface, but as Sequel says, that would effectively reduce the armor to the flight suits of original All as One most of the time. And again, it depends on the psychology you're going for. With mecha, it's more detached, more impersonal, but you get to really look at how power can affect a person. When you control a machine which can lay waste to whole stretches of city and kill thousands of people with ease, that can get to your head and twist you into something else, something monstrous. Whereas with power armor it's up close, personal and much more brutal. There's a fair amount of scope for guilt and angst there, and possibly the same sort of themes as the mecha route regarding power and how it can corrupt.

I will most likely get involved either way, but my character will likely depend on which route we go for. I can use the battlesuit from the image as a design inspiration either way, but with regards to Seth, he probably fits the mecha route better than the armor route, at least in my eyes.

 

[Kamotz]

In reference to the humanity vs machine theme, what if cybernetic implants were required to interface fully with AMS-capable mechs/armor? So when you pilot a mecha/suit, you literally plug into it.

That was my idea, though it isn't so much cybernetics as it is an evolution of modern medical techniques used to connect amputees to prosthetic limbs. The idea this time around would be that the powered armor/suits began as an advanced prosthetic before being scaled to a military project.

I'll be re-using Kotomi either way, but I don't think I'll pull Beatrice and Theo back if we go the armor route. It just doesn't suit them. I've got another character or two in the works for the armor route.

This makes me sad. Beatrice and Theo were some of my favorites.

Yeah...I'm just not sure how I want it to go...The tactile feeling of the armor over the mech is just so...alluring to me.

Oh. OKAY! I think I've got a sort of coherent idea forming, let's see...

Idea: What if we start out like we did before. All we have are the Armored Cores, emphasizing the "mini" in the "mini mecha." This helps scale down the conflicts and battles to more believable levels. The machines would probably be no taller than 15-20 feet (4.5-6.0 meters for you metric folk). They're kind of cramped and uncomfortable. I can work in a way to play with the interface: something like...it is done wireless. The flight-suit connects to certain nerve-clusters (which the basis for AMS Aptitude - certain people have more concentrated/developed of these certain, specific clusters, which allows them to interface) through the skin (not puncturing, just through close contact - like with modern prosthetics), amplifying the signal.

That's what we'd be using for the first half of the RPG. Then, however, after the midpoint crisis that "changes everything", we go the armor-interface idea. This is the same time that we get the second iteration of our machines. The more advanced ACs need more precise and powerful signals to be piloted well, creating the need for the armor, which links up more sturdily with the AC. This way I think we get the best of both worlds. The main weapon is still the AC, but we have the option to use the powered armor as a backup/last resort/life support/covert stealth option.

 

[TheSequelReturns]

Ah, gotcha.

I was looking at how I could try to re-work Beatrice to fit the armor, but it was just against her personality to want to pilot an armor suit. And Theo and Bea kind of come as a pair.

I actually really like that compromise. The Code Geass Knightmare Frames were approx 25 feet (the standard ones anyway), so that would be a decent frame of reference for sizing. The machine taht stomps us into the ground during the "crisis scene" can be one of those new deals with the armor unit core, thus giving us a reason to upgrade. And best of all, it lets me keep Bea and Theo in the game. ^^

I vote for this option.

 

[Kamotz]

Plus, it gets the best of both world when it comes to the different character interactions with the machines. We get the detached pilot's-seat kind of naivete and eventual angst, and then we get the potential for the violent realization once they use the powered armor to fight and actually kill with their own hands.

 

[TheSequelReturns]

And naturally, some people will take to the change better than others. The more I think about the transition, the more I like the idea.

 

[Kamotz]

So now that this idea is settled, what do you guys think about the RPG? Do we continue from where we left off? Or do we try and restart it?

 

[storymasterb]

I'd say restart. Due to the armor concept, which is a fairly large change in the mechanics of the ACs. Plus that gives people more scope to create and bring in new characters if they want to.

 

[Kamotz]

Yeah, but the armor wouldn't exist until the second "season".

 

[storymasterb]

Oh. Misunderstood that part. Thought we started with the armor and then upgraded to full mecha in the second 'season'. Sorry.

Hm. I still think it's better to do a clean restart for the purposes of new characters. People will have likely moved on, it's been a fair while since we did anything with All as One, and so it may just be best to start afresh.

 

[Kamotz]

Okay, so you're voting for the restart. What about Sequel and niedude? The beginning is likely to play out very similarly either way, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.

 

[Billy Mays]

I say restart, since I wasn't in the previous version. Plus as already stated some of the dynamics of the RPG would be changing so it'd probably be best just to do a do over.

 

[TheSequelReturns]

Perhaps do a bit of both? Maybe restart, but have our first mission as part of the recent back-story or something? I don't know.

So... we could technically restart, with the team coming together and all that, but maybe move the plot/story up a bit?

Or, since we have new characters, maybe things won't play out quite the same... Not sure honestly. I'm good either way.

 

[Kamotz]

One question I had forgotten was the pseudo-psychic preternatural powers. What is everyone's opinions on those? They wouldn't be full-grade Jean Grey Phoenix powers, of course, but sort of limited psychic-like abilities. Abilities related to the mind, influencing such things as will, thought, memory and perception.

 

[Billy Mays]

Personally I don't think it should exist at all. The RP is about battles between mechs and the people who ride them, not people with psychic powers that happen to travel around in Power Ranger zords. The whole psychic power thing seems pointless.

 

[TheSequelReturns]

If we did something like that, I don't think it should hit Code Geass levels. Maybe something more along the lines of the Newtypes from Gundam. Which would include things like heightened awareness, a "danger-sense" (see also: "Spider-sense"), heightened response time, even an awareness of the presence of other "Newtypes". Perhaps as a side effect of the armor systems?

If we do go that route, it shouldn't come in until much later, after the armor systems have begun to set in. For the initial phase we can stick with the AMS-aptitude thing we had going from the last one. That should work fine I think.

 

[storymasterb]

I'm with Sequel. While I think the powers could be interesting, keeping them as passive effects rather than anything we can really influence is probably the best way to go about things. If we keep them as slight extensions of human ability, then it keeps things a bit more tidy and realistic while also defining why pilots with AMS aptitude are better than pilots without. There's a difference in tone between a story with more passive psychic abilities which are just extensions on human traits, and a story in which we have such a badly-defined and abusable ability as the LIVE Geass. With the former, we can keep the pilots more human, since even with 'spider sense' and increased reaction, physically there are still things it's impossible for humans to react to in time.

And yeah, they should probably show up later.

 

[Kamotz]

Personally I don't think it should exist at all. The RP is about battles between mechs and the people who ride them, not people with psychic powers that happen to travel around in Power Ranger zords. The whole psychic power thing seems pointless.

But the RPG is really about neither of those things. It's more about people who happen to ride around in mechs. The idea of the psychic power is that it's a power that manifests differently in each individual, related to their inner desires and personality. And that's what the RPG is really about; those inner desires and personalities growing in people who just happen to be mech pilots.