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Ash 6 Strongest Pokémon ? (Top)

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
Prior to Journeys, the obvious choices would be Pikachu + the regional ace of each series:

Starter: Pikachu
OS: Charizard
AG: Sceptile
DP: Infernape
BW: Krookodile
XY: Greninja
SM: Lycanroc/Incineroar

Also, each region sort of had a secondary ace as well:

Kanto: Bulbasaur
OI: Snorlax
Johto: Heracross
Hoenn: Swellow
Sinnoh: Gliscor
Unova: Pignite
Kalos: Hawlucha
Alola: Lycanroc/Incineroar


Of course, the JN team trumps everyone based on feats. Prior to Journeys, you have Charizard and Sceptile taking down powerful legendaries. Ash-Greninja applied heavy pressure on Diantha's Mega Gardevoir and Alain's Mega Charizard X, but Greninja never got any actual wins against Elite 4/Champion Pokemon. The rest of Ash's Pokemon took down Frontier Brain Pokemon and/or league conference champion Pokemon, but never actually beat an Elite 4/Champion Pokemon.

The JN team consistently beating these Pokemon basically overshadows any other feat. The only in-universe explanation, IMO, would be that JN Ash has gotten even better from DP/XY/SM Ash to the point that he is now Champion-tier, and therefore any Pokemon he now trains in a region will improve exponentially farther than whatever he did in prior regions, even if that is never shown on-screen. Personally, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. I would expect some of the reserves, especially the more battle-tested and powerful ones, to be this strong at this point, but not the entire JN team except for Lucario (who's meant to be ace of this series).

It's hard to really compare. Here's a thought experiment: If JN Ash didn't capture any other Pokemon, but he only used his reserves this series, would they all have been upscaled? At the end of the day, the writing team wanted JN Ash to become the #1 trainer in the world, so they made his team that level.
 
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I shouldn't have made this thread, it's obvious that all reserves will be scaled to champion level after Journeys.
 

Troo33

Well-Known Member
Heck even Ash-Greninja might be placed too high. JN mons are just too OP and have ridiculous feats
Mmhh why?

He's fine at 2-3. Greninja (Ash'nt according to Flashback) managed to match the power of MCX, it was very close, and that Charizard easily defeated Rillaboom, who defeated sirfetch, dragonite. Okay, I'm not a powerscaler, but according to the anime

MCX > Greninja ≥ BaseZard (Alain) > Rillaboom = Sirfetch = Dragonite = Dracovish.
 

Troo33

Well-Known Member
1. Pikachu
2. Greninja / Mega Lucario
4. Gigamax Gengar
5. Charizard
6. Sirfetch'd / Dracovish / Base Lucario.

Charizard is here because he defeated a Legendary Pokémon, that in itself is a Champion level achievement.
 

Troo33

Well-Known Member
MCX and Alain also then weren't Masters 8 worthy trainers, that's JN making them stronger. That logic really doesn't hold
so now Alain is not worthy just because he lost against Leon lol

It doesn't seem fair to say that Alain is not worthy being the only one who defeated Rillaboom with ease (Diantha had to use 5 Pokémon to get rid of it). Doesn't seem like a very convincing argument on your part tbh, Journeys established that he is champion level so I don't know how to respond to what you said.
 
Mmhh why?

He's fine at 2-3. Greninja (Ash'nt according to Flashback) managed to match the power of MCX, it was very close, and that Charizard easily defeated Rillaboom, who defeated sirfetch, dragonite. Okay, I'm not a powerscaler, but according to the anime

MCX > Greninja ≥ BaseZard (Alain) > Rillaboom = Sirfetch = Dragonite = Dracovish.
That's the reason Greninja and Charizard are 2 and 4 for me, Dragonite is also in position 6 for me because she defeated Haxorus.

There are Pokémon that match Aces of champions and others that are very close

1)Lucario (Duralodon Gmax, BaseChomp)
2)Greninja (It was very close to MCX and Mega Gardevoir)
3)Charizard (vs Articuno)
4)Dragonite (vs Haxorus, although she was very lucky here)
5)Sirfetch ( Thanks to Meteor Assault)
 

Troo33

Well-Known Member
"Not worthy because he lost against Leon"
When did I say that bruh? Yes JN established him, JN
When he battled greninja it was back in XY
He obviously grew between XY and JN
So zero reason to equate his opponents feats against him back then compared to now
Well, it is never mentioned that Alain got better. (Ironically, Ash mentioned that Greninja did).

Alain was already deserving enough in my book, few people endure 9 grueling fights and immediately defeat an E4. Also, few trainers survive to Groudon Precipitate Blades & Mega Rayquaza attacks.

The rest is up to you anyway, JN isnt very good with the powerscaling after all.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Well, it is never mentioned that Alain got better. (Ironically, Ash mentioned that Greninja did).

Alain was already deserving enough in my book, few people endure 9 grueling fights and immediately defeat an E4. Also, few trainers survive to Groudon Precipitate Blades & Mega Rayquaza attacks.

The rest is up to you anyway, JN isnt very good with the powerscaling after all.
Alain got back his mega stone and keystone
I think it should be obvious he's definitely improved
 

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
First Team: Pikachu/Lucario/Sirfetch'd/Dracovish/Gengar/Dragonite

Second Team: Charizard/Greninja/Sceptile/Infernape/Snorlax/Krookodile

Third Team: Naganadel/Bulbasaur/Incineroar/Swellow/Gliscor/Glalie

Fourth/Fifth Team: Corphish/Lycanroc/Talonflame/Hawlucha/Heracross/Gible

Fourth/Fifth Team: Squirtle/Torkoal/Rowlet/Melmetal/Goodra/Noivern

Sixth/Seventh Team: Pignite/Tauros/Torterra/Donphan/Buizel/Staraptor

Sixth/Seventh Team: Quilava/Leavanny/Palpitoad/Noctowl/Boldore/Unfezant

Eighth Team: Bayleef/Muk/Snivy/Oshawott/Scraggy/Totodile

Forgotten Team: Kingler, Aipom, Mr. Mime, Lapras, Primeape, Pidgeot
 
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Pokeshipper_

Well-Known Member
It's impossible to make a top six of Ash Pokémons, it's easier giving Ash different squads based on the match or the region
 

Blood Red

【推しの子】
In no particular order (except Top 2):

Pikachu
Charizard
Sceptile
Greninja
Infernape
Lucario
If they were going to do reserves, it should have been right from the start of the PWC arc. It would be hard to justify giving Ash five new Pokémon that get him into the M8 just to set them aside for the boxed Pokémon at Oak’s or Kukui’s.

Ideally, a PWC arc with reserves would have only given Ash 2 new Pokémon (Lucario and Gengar would have been my choices) and then rotated through his reserves until the Raihan battle when he assembled his ultimate team of Pikachu, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile, Gengar and Lucario.

Yes, I’m picking Infernape over Charizard because it having both would be too many fire types and Infernape is good BDSP marketing.
Mostly agreed except monkey vs lizard. Ideally, they would've had Ash's Charizard develop an early rivalry with Leon's, and given us a Zard vs Zard match to crown 'the strongest Charizard in the world'.
 
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