Ash being a bad trainer is the biggest meme talking point of this community

[GGuitarGuy95]

With the Anime community, it’s all or nothing if Ash wins a League or not. It doesn’t matter how well he does. His achievements of winning the Orange Island League, and Battle Frontier doesn’t matter as much. It’s all about the games League. Even when he did win, ppl were dismayed about it.

On closer inspection, his feats are actually pretty impressive looking back at it.

Johto League - Fisnished Top 8.

Hoenn League - Finished Top 8 again, but lost in a last hit situation against the guy who later went on to win the League.

Sinnoh League - Finished Top 4. Ash was the only Trainer to beat Tobias Darkrai, but also his Latios as well.

Unova League - Finished Top 8. Yeah his loss was embarrassing, but still managed to place Top 8.

Kalos League - Finished Top 2. Lost in a last hit situation against Alain, who was arguably on the lvl on an E4 member.

All in all, he consistently top 8 Regional Tourneys and ppl seem to forgo his impressive feats within the Leagues.

 

[lolipiece]

People always focus on how Ash typically loses Leagues, but since they're tournaments he actually has more wins.

 

[Decidueye23]

With the Anime community, it’s all or nothing if Ash wins a League or not. It doesn’t matter how well he does. His achievements of winning the Orange Island League, and Battle Frontier doesn’t matter as much. It’s all about the games League. Even when he did win, ppl were dismayed about it.

On closer inspection, his feats are actually pretty impressive looking back at it.

Johto League - Fisnished Top 8.

Hoenn League - Finished Top 8 again, but lost in a last hit situation against the guy who later went on to win the League.

Sinnoh League - Finished Top 4. Ash was the only Trainer to beat Tobias Darkrai, but also his Latios as well.

Unova League - Finished Top 8. Yeah his loss was embarrassing, but still managed to place Top 8.

Kalos League - Finished Top 2. Lost in a last hit situation against Alain, who was arguably on the lvl on an E4 member.

All in all, he consistently top 8 Regional Tourneys and ppl seem to forgo his impressive feats within the Leagues.

Honestly at this point anyone who questions Ash's calibre is just blind to obvious facts. Yes some of his losses have been embaressing, and the only loss that felt like a wtf moment was the cameron one. Every othet losss is fine. Even the kalos one. Alain went head on with a Zygarde 50% with M charizard X so i am not suprised Ash lost. But people fail to notice how close he came to winning. Despite winning the Alolan league, i would say that the battle he put up with Alain was much superior to the one against gladion. And we all know if Ash really uses a team full of his strongest mons, he will be one of the strongest trainers in the world. Its jsut Marketing prevents him from doing, and as a long PM fan i have made peace with it.

 

[pacman000]

Shoot, in the Indigo series Ash finished in the top 16. Even starting out, slacking off, exploring instead of training, going by instinct alone, he was better than most of the trainers in Kanto.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

To be honest I feel like things like the Orange League and the Battle Frontier are more important accomplishments than winning a regional league especially when it comes to Ash's goal as a Pokemon Master.

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

Well there's no reason to take him seriously when the results aren't there. It's become very easy to make fun of him when we've all grown up and he's still right where we left him, largely inconsistent with little progress in terms of winning.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I love me some Ash love, especially when it's not about one specific series Ash but him in general (Coz he is one character throughout). People always downplay him for the memes but it's always those people who don't even watch the series anymore. Him having unevolved mons can be frustrating I get but isn't it more impressive for him too achieve his feats without evolving them, esp when those mons don't want to evolve and he helps them win without evolution. Ash Is also so smart, every series even BW has shown that aspect of him during battles even if he has his dumb moments. He can easily adapt to the current circumstances and quickly come up with a strategy to win. Hes quite intuitive in battles and can always come up with the wackiest ways to snatch victory, people often times give so less credit to this ability of his, instead saying he only wins thanks to plot armour. And yes, him winning the things he won is impressive as hell, but so is the performances where be didn't reach all the way through. Like cmon, top 8 is such a good position when you think about it.
Current Ash with all his powerhouses would sweep Game red and honestly Manga Red too. Maybe origins red would be better coz he has a Mewtwo, but then again that Mewtwo was weak as hell lol.
Like even when he becomes world champion in JN and canonically the strongest trainer, people would still make their own loopholes to undervalue him, it sucks. I wish people would love him for who he is before wanting to mature him up

Well there's no reason to take him seriously when the results aren't there. It's become very easy to make fun of him when we've all grown up and he's still right where we left him, largely inconsistent with little progress in terms of winning.

His development has been inconsistent since DP but you can't tell me JN Ash isn't a grown and more mature version of not only OS Ash but also DP Ash. It's not anything to write home about and they could and should do more with his character rn and he can be wildly inconsistent, but he's also definitely shown growth and progress.

 

[Almighty Zard]

To be honest I feel like things like the Orange League and the Battle Frontier are more important accomplishments than winning a regional league especially when it comes to Ash's goal as a Pokemon Master.

The OI i don't agree as much, but the BF I will with all the hype it had gotten.

Problem is the BF accomplishment was really only brought up once...and boy did it trigger Paul.

Well there's no reason to take him seriously when the results aren't there. It's become very easy to make fun of him when we've all grown up and he's still right where we left him, largely inconsistent with little progress in terms of winning.

Results that occured because they decided to keep Ash around and not retire him and pikachu, we had to put up with 5 regions worth of resets and 1 extreme case where Pikachu got nerfed as well, but that ain't the case right now thanks to alola.

They let him win the alola league, even if one wants to contest how it was done, it was the region's first league and they all got to start somewhere, and by doing so they didn't pull the reset trigger on Ash this time, cause he's getting to battle at a level he should be at, instead of having to struggle with fresh newbs that have to be raised from scratch. He's actually capturing and using pokemon that reflect what his skill level should be instead of being put under restrictions.

Plus he's already beaten Iris who became a champion, and more powerful opponents (E4's and champions) could be on the path to Leon.

 

[AlolaKanto007]

I think it is due to 4 reasons

-After DP, Ash constantly changes his personality (especially in SM) so people don't take him seriously

-He became a bad trainer in BW

-Manga protagonists become masters in a few years

-He's a bad character overall

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Well there's no reason to take him seriously when the results aren't there. It's become very easy to make fun of him when we've all grown up and he's still right where we left him, largely inconsistent with little progress in terms of winning.

Name another Trainer who has successfully raised teams of rookies to the level of the regional conference more than twice. Oh right, you literally can't, because the only other Trainer who has even appeared in multiple League Conferences is Gary, and he only showed up in two before retiring. Winning a League isn't the only form of results, no matter how many people unintelligently think that.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Most people who downplay Ash are the folks who grow up with KANTOOOOOOOOO and kind of ignore later series because MAH NOSTALGYAAAA so I just write off as their opinion and keep enjoying the show.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Name another Trainer who has successfully raised teams of rookies to the level of the regional conference more than twice. Oh right, you literally can't, because the only other Trainer who has even appeared in multiple League Conferences is Gary, and he only showed up in two before retiring. Winning a League isn't the only form of results, no matter how many people unintelligently think that.

Ok I know you don't like Paul but he also did it.

Also, this "Ash being a bad trainer" is as old as BW, because in the later series XY-SM-JN, Ash was showed to be stronger, facing stronger opponents and actually winning even against a champion (in this case, Iris).

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Ok I know you don't like Paul but he also did it.

Also, this "Ash being a bad trainer" is as old as BW, because in the later series XY-SM-JN, Ash was showed to be stronger, facing stronger opponents and actually winning even against a champion (in this case, Iris).

I only consider legitimate Trainers, not things like that which abuse their Pokemon yet fail to suffer any sort of actual consequence for it, like their Pokemon failing to get stronger or outright refusing to disobey them or leave.

 

[ZarudeSandstorm]

you forgot alola league he beat strongest trainer there kukui.
that's still big achievement way bigger than orange island achievement and even some his other league achievements like in kanto johto and hoenn( and definitely unova)
maybe even brandon since brandon used newly caught regice, i mean guardian and 10mv was epic and much stronger and even without them.

 

[GGuitarGuy95]

you forgot alola league he beat strongest trainer there kukui.
that's still big achievement way bigger than orange island achievement and even some his other league achievements like in kanto johto and hoenn( and definitely unova)
maybe even brandon since brandon used newly caught regice, i mean guardian and 10mv was epic and much stronger and even without them.

I was only counting his achievements prior to his Alola win.

 

[XY Rules]

I only consider legitimate Trainers, not things like that which abuse their Pokemon yet fail to suffer any sort of actual consequence for it, like their Pokemon failing to get stronger or outright refusing to disobey them or leave.

Fun fact: Paul only abused Chimchar. And that was an actual consequence for it as Chimchar only got stronger under Ash.

The more you know.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Fun fact: Paul only abused Chimchar. And that was an actual consequence for it as Chimchar only got stronger under Ash.

The more you know.

You consider that a consequence? I like Paul but seeing Bede's arc in the games I agree he should have gotten some real life consequence for literally abusing a mon rather then it being handwaived as a 'different technique'

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Fun fact: Paul only abused Chimchar. And that was an actual consequence for it as Chimchar only got stronger under Ash.

The more you know.

Fun fact: That's not true! See: how he treats his other Pokemon in general. Chimchar merely got the worst of it.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Fun fact: That's not true! See: how he treats his other Pokemon in general. Chimchar merely got the worst of it.

I dunno about that.

Yes he was tougher on his pokemon than most other trainers, but you could clearly tell he was pushing chimchar beyond the threshold to the point where it could easily be seen as abuse to force out it's unnatural blaze but decided to give up when he couldn't do it.

The Tag tournament arc was the biggest evidence of this, cause he beat chimchar to the point where Ash was forced to step in and stop it, Brock and Nurse Joy both tried to convince Paul to let Chimchar rest, but did he? Nope he sent it out in the next match half beaten. Even Team Rocket was appalled by his actions.

yet in the following round after he and ash fought Brock and Holly, he had his Torterra which had really only taken like 1 good hit from Brock's croagunk, healed up by Nurse Joy almost immeadiently.

it's pretty obvious what he was doing when it came to chimchar compared to the rest of his pokemon.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I dunno about that.

Yes he was tougher on his pokemon than most other trainers, but you could clearly tell he was pushing chimchar beyond the threshold to the point where it could easily be seen as abuse to force out it's unnatural blaze but decided to give up when he couldn't do it.

The Tag tournament arc was the biggest evidence of this, cause he beat chimchar to the point where Ash was forced to step in and stop it, Brock and Nurse Joy both tried to convince Paul to let Chimchar rest, but did he? Nope he sent it out in the next match half beaten. Even Team Rocket was appalled by his actions.

yet in the following round after he and ash fought Brock and Holly, he had his Torterra which had really only taken like 1 good hit from Brock's croagunk, healed up by Nurse Joy almost immeadiently.

it's pretty obvious what he was doing when it came to chimchar compared to the rest of his pokemon.

And that's supposed to excuse him? "Oh look he abused one mon but all his other mons don't mind his tough love and and like him, hes a great guy and is just using different techniques"