Ash going back to Kanto? Can this hint at Kanto in USUM?

[Orphalesion]

barring the effects that time might have had on Kanto; where you see that as a problem, I see that as one of if not the only real appeal of the idea

Don't understand me wrong, I think IF Kanto was to return (which I don't think it should) it definitely should change a lot, but I suspect that would upset a lot of people who want to go back to Kanto.

he same could be said of why people might want remakes

I'm not a fan of the remakes in general. I'm mildly interested in Sinnoh remakes because I have never played a Sinnoh game, and even so I'd only buy it if they'd include new Sinnohan forms. Kantonian forms are much, much less likely than Sinnohan forms.

 

[Akashin]

Don't understand me wrong, I think IF Kanto was to return (which I don't think it should) it definitely should change a lot, but I suspect that would upset a lot of people who want to go back to Kanto.

It depends what they want out of it, I suppose. If people want another remake of the games, then yeah, I suspect that seeing Kanto vastly changed would be disappointing. But another remake of those games is vastly more pointless than simply returning to Kanto, and I can't really think of any good reason for that (and like I said, getting to see what the region is like 10+ years later would be the primary appeal for seeing it done in another fashion).

 

[Excitable Boy]

just play Gen I on VC already

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Well as I alluded to in the General Speculation thread, Kanto really hasn't aged well because of how much more fleshed out the gameplay mechanics, region design, Pokedex, extra content, and storyline is from successive generations and hardware upgrades. So I wouldn't mind Kanto getting the BW2 treatment, even when it's easily been the most revisited region in the series, it hasn't really been improved per se. But I don't think this is the game that's going to do it, this game has only been in development for a year after SM and likely only has minimal changes, and they haven't really shown an interest in making dual region games besides GSCHGSS. So it's highly unlikely we'll see any kind of second region in this game.

 

[Bguy7]

just play Gen I on VC already

There is a massive difference between going to a newly re-envisioned Kanto in a new game, and playing an antiquated and outdated game.

 

[Wulava]

I seriously doubt it.

If anything, it could potentially hint at cameos. Or PWT in USUM if people really want that.
...or, it's just for the anime.

 

[Orphalesion]

it hasn't really been improved per se..

It has never been improved (aside from a graphical upgrades), arguably whatever that was in GS/HGSS was a downgrade if anything, considering all the things that were cut out or simplified (more so in Gen II, than in Gen IV, but still).
I know most of those cuts were made because of size restrictions on the cartridges, but wouldn't it be the same issue with randomly tacking Kanto onto the end of US/UM?

Two further issues I can think of:

1) People talk of "upgrading" and "improving" Kanto, of bringing it on par with the newer regions. That would be a massive undertaking for GF with relatively little gain. And, again it would piss off the Kanto purists.
2) What would be the storyline for this new Kanto? Just another Team Rocket resurgence? Again a completely new storyline on par with the more recent ones would be too much effort for little gain.

So a post Alola Kanto would just, again, end up pretty empty.

I'd also mention the atrocious type spread, but that would only really be an issue of it was a remake rather than a post game area.

 

[Excitable Boy]

There is a massive difference between going to a newly re-envisioned Kanto in a new game, and playing an antiquated and outdated game.

Just because it's not railroading the player through cutscenes doesn't mean it's unplayable

 

[Darthlord7]

I doubt it. Ash going back to Kanto is more like a thing to celebrate the 20th anniversary and acknowledge continuity in the main show plus it's only for a couple of episodes. Imho, Kanto is unneeded in USUM.

 

[Bguy7]

Just because it's not railroading the player through cutscenes doesn't mean it's unplayable

There's a lot of differences that make Red and Blue vastly inferior to modern games. There's mechanics that have improved over the years, graphics, Pokémon availability, general game design, etc. Not to mention, there's also the experience of seeing an old region upgraded to modern standards. Really, the only reason there is to play Red and Blue today is nostalgia. It's not that it's unplayable on it's own merit, it's just that so much has changed and improved since it's release, that it's been rendered obsolete.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I know most of those cuts were made because of size restrictions on the cartridges, but wouldn't it be the same issue with randomly tacking Kanto onto the end of US/UM?

It would, which is why I don't think they would do it. If they want to modernize Kanto, they'll probably give it a game to itself.

1) People talk of "upgrading" and "improving" Kanto, of bringing it on par with the newer regions. That would be a massive undertaking for GF with relatively little gain. And, again it would piss off the Kanto purists.

I doubt the Kanto purists will be as up in arms. Some of them would probably complain but most of them would probably still buy it if the game is legitimately improved. And the kids would be much more willing to play a modernized Kanto than an antiquated version of Kanto that was designed before they were even born.

2) What would be the storyline for this new Kanto? Just another Team Rocket resurgence? Again a completely new storyline on par with the more recent ones would be too much effort for little gain.

Team Rocket's problem is that their motivations aren't really fleshed out, which is the issue with Kanto's story in general. They just do bad things for the sake of doing bad things. Giving them more detailed motivation and characterization would do wonders even if they're still just Team Rocket. An actual overarching plot instead of just random skirmished wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Erron Black]

I doubt it. Ash going back to Kanto is more like a thing to celebrate the 20th anniversary and acknowledge continuity in the main show plus it's only for a couple of episodes. Imho, Kanto is unneeded in USUM.

Basically this. It's the 20th anniversary of the anime and it makes sense to revisit where it started for that reason. For the main series games we got RBY on virtual console to celebrate.

I doubt it'll be in USUM, but if it is I won't complain.

 

[pokedigijedi]

Maybe, but like some people have said it's probably just for its 20th anniversary.


Besides, whether or not Kanto is in the game or not depends on how data they can put on the 3DS cartridge

 

[Orphalesion]

There's mechanics that have improved over the years, graphics, Pokémon availability, general game design, etc. Not to mention, there's also the experience of seeing an old region upgraded to modern standards.

Both of those things would be pretty challenging with Kanto and would require extensive reworking of the region. I'd be cool with that RBY/FRLG/SG/HGSS Kanto is, as I said, boring, bland and barren.

1) With the Pokemon availability we'd have to include more mons than the 150 that originally populated Kanto. By modern standards the Kanto dex is atrocious, especially when it comes to type availability. There's some Fairy types and two lines of Steel types, but no Dark types at all, the only ghost line is part Poison and there's also only one Dragon line. The only Ice Pokemon that aren't part water are a legendary and Nicky Menaj (available only through trade)

2)Not just the graphics, but level design was still much more primitive in Red/Blue. The layouts of routes and cities, the re-use of the same building sets in every city.... To get places as varied, beautiful and spectacular as, let's say, Poni Canyon, Konikoni Town, Reflection Cave and even Skyarrow bridge, would require extensive redesign.
It's not as simple to as just transliterating the existing maps to 3D environments, Kanto would have to be given a completely new identity, face and flavour in order not to seem bland in comparison to the newer regions. This would possibly entail expanding both existing locations and adding new ones.
Then there's there's the question about whether anything should be done about the design "quirks" Kanto had; should the gigantic underground dungeons with their millions of Zubats swarming you and the murderous water routes with their hordes of Tentacools be reworked to be less ridiculous (I think so) Oh and there's also no way I'm going back to HM slaves, so something needs to be changed there as well...

Especially 2) would be beyond simply adding the region as a post-game feature, even if one ignores the data constraints and the fact that a complete story would have to be added to, again, not make Kanto bland and lifeless in comparison to Alola. So it would be more the province of (yet another) remake rather than a bonus feature.
And considering that the last remake did absolutely nothing to improve upon Kanto during the storyline itself (except the graphical update) and even went out of the way to prevent you from getting any Pokemon beyond the arbitrary 151 Kanto mons (no your Golbat can't evolve right now, even though it's nearly exploding with love for you, because you don't have the Pokedex upgrade) I'm not looking forward to another Kanto remake if it ends up like FR/LG.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

1) With the Pokemon availability we'd have to include more mons than the 150 that originally populated Kanto. By modern standards the Kanto dex is atrocious, especially when it comes to type availability. There's some Fairy types and two lines of Steel types, but no Dark types at all, the only ghost line is part Poison and there's also only one Dragon line. The only Ice Pokemon that aren't part water are a legendary and Nicky Menaj (available only through trade)

Overhauling the regional dex wouldn't really require that much work. You can decide on the Pokemon added and where to find them in a matter of days.

Also, they can help alleviate this a bit by making cross gen evos, Megas, and Alola forms available as well, as those also help with the poor variety. Add all of those in and the variety looks slightly better (although still flawed). Ice would have Glaceon and Alola Sandslash/Ninetales. Ghost would have Alola Marowak. Dragon would have Mega Charizard X, Kingdra, and Alola Exeggutor. Dark would have Umbreon, Mega Gyarados, Alola Raticate, Alola Persian, and Alola Muk. Steel would have Steelix, Scizor, and Alola Sandslash. Fairy would have Sylveon and Alola Ninetales. Still not great, as that would put it roughly on par with Hoenn and DP Sinnoh, but a definite improvement from the original.

2)Not just the graphics, but level design was still much more primitive in Red/Blue. The layouts of routes and cities, the re-use of the same building sets in every city.... To get places as varied, beautiful and spectacular as, let's say, Poni Canyon, Konikoni Town, Reflection Cave and even Skyarrow bridge, would require extensive redesign.
It's not as simple to as just transliterating the existing maps to 3D environments, Kanto would have to be given a completely new identity, face and flavour in order not to seem bland in comparison to the newer regions. This would possibly entail expanding both existing locations and adding new ones.

Yeah, this would probably be what they would spend most of their time on. And even then, you're kind of exaggerating how much time it would probably take. Considering that they're still working off an existing map design, 2 years should probably be enough.

Then there's there's the question about whether anything should be done about the design "quirks" Kanto had; should the gigantic underground dungeons with their millions of Zubats swarming you and the murderous water routes with their hordes of Tentacools be reworked to be less ridiculous (I think so)

This would be tied to dex variety. What else can they really put in caves and oceans besides Zubat and Tentacool? It's no coincidence that the regions that are the worst with this tend to be the ones that have poor dex variety in the first place.

Oh and there's also no way I'm going back to HM slaves, so something needs to be changed there as well...

So keep Ride Pokemon, problem solved. Pretty sure no one wants them to go back to HMs.

And considering that the last remake did absolutely nothing to improve upon Kanto during the storyline itself (except the graphical update) and even went out of the way to prevent you from getting any Pokemon beyond the arbitrary 151 Kanto mons (no your Golbat can't evolve right now, even though it's nearly exploding with love for you, because you don't have the Pokedex upgrade) I'm not looking forward to another Kanto remake if it ends up like FR/LG.

Remakes themselves have also taken more and more liberties as time's gone on. A new Kanto game would be more comparable to ORAS than FRLG. And a Kanto game designed even with an ORAS mentality would still be an improvement, because then you would actually have a fleshed out storyline that fully explains its plot elements, new features and content to flesh out the gameplay, and at the very least cross gen evos and new forms to help with the variety. If they remade Kanto yet again it wouldn't be like FRLG, creating another Kanto game would pretty much be an admission that FRLG isn't really enough of an improvement to satisfy a modern audience. And hell, considering their approach towards wanting unique games if they were to make another Kanto game they'd want something that doesn't really replace FRLG anyway. A sequel would help with that.

 

[Wryteous]

No chance of a Kanto inclusion. I see it merely to be a fanservice to the viewers. Misty and Brock getting Mega Evolutions is a great addition to the nostalgia- but it's made redundant by how hideous I find the SM's anime art style and character concepts.

 

[Bguy7]

Both of those things would be pretty challenging with Kanto and would require extensive reworking of the region. I'd be cool with that RBY/FRLG/SG/HGSS Kanto is, as I said, boring, bland and barren.

Well, that's kind of the point. I said this in an earlier post, but there's no way that Kanto, as is, could ever fit well into a modern 3D game. Bringing it back, whether it be as a second region, remake, sequel, reboot, etc, would mandate a complete overhaul. They were able to get away with a simple Kanto in Heart Gold and Soul Silver, but back then regions were a lot less complex in design. They just couldn't do the same today.

 

[Erron Black]

Overhauling the regional dex wouldn't really require that much work. You can decide on the Pokemon added and where to find them in a matter of days.

Also, they can help alleviate this a bit by making cross gen evos, Megas, and Alola forms available as well, as those also help with the poor variety. Add all of those in and the variety looks slightly better (although still flawed). Ice would have Glaceon and Alola Sandslash/Ninetales. Ghost would have Alola Marowak. Dragon would have Mega Charizard X, Kingdra, and Alola Exeggutor. Dark would have Umbreon, Mega Gyarados, Alola Raticate, Alola Persian, and Alola Muk. Steel would have Steelix, Scizor, and Alola Sandslash. Fairy would have Sylveon and Alola Ninetales. Still not great, as that would put it roughly on par with Hoenn and DP Sinnoh, but a definite improvement from the original.

Alolan forms are more than likely exclusive to Alola, hence the title 'Regional Variant'. So if this were to happen, Alolan forms would more than likely be unavailable in the region.

 

[Akashin]

Alolan forms are more than likely exclusive to Alola, hence the title 'Regional Variant'. So if this were to happen, Alolan forms would more than likely be unavailable in the region.

In theory, Alolan forms are exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to see in a Safari Zone. And they're not just going to remove Alolan forms after these games, so they'll be made available outside of Alola at some point or another.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

In theory, Alolan forms are exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to see in a Safari Zone. And they're not just going to remove Alolan forms after these games, so they'll be made available outside of Alola at some point or another.

This. There's going to be generations that don't feature Alola, so Alola forms will need to show up in other regions in some way. They can come up with several different distribution methods to justify Alola forms showing up outside of Alola, a Safari Zone type of place, some type of hidden encounter method like Pokeradar/Dexnav/Island Scan, an NPC from Alola that trades/gifts them to you.