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Ash going back to Kanto? Can this hint at Kanto in USUM?

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I personally feel BW and BW2 handled HMs the best. They were still HMs no doubt, but you actually didn't need to have any of these HMs in your party to progress through the main story. They were only needed for optional areas and to find items. I'd like a return to that style. I agree about the criticism of Poke Ride, and would like HMs to return, but only if it's like BW.

The problem with this though, is that it dumbs down the overworld. The benefit of HMs is that they really enhanced the exploration and puzzle solving, we lost that aspect of the gameplay the more they nerfed HMs. They definitely needed to do something about HMs, but moving them off the beaten path is a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the actual problem with the HM system. I think they should keep Poke Ride, but expand what Pokemon you can use with it. Essentially, make it work like Ranger's field abilities.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I'd like post-Alola games to handle HMs like I originally thought for the end of HMs: Every pokemon has the ability to learn 4 attacks and 2 field moves. Field moves would be taught by HMs and attacks are learned through TMs, tutors, leveling, and breeding. Field moves are used outside of battle and attacks are used in battle. My Blastoise could have Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse and Aqua Jet for battling, but still able to carry me over the water and up waterfalls out of battle. No more HM slaves mucking up the team or pokemon sacrificing move slots for HM moves, and no rental pokemon or Ride Pager. They don't even have to take away Surf or Waterfall. They could remain attacks and just name the field moves something else. They could also give us back a lot of the effects of field moves we no longer have like headbutt, sweet scent, and Secret Power.

That would certainly be a good compromise. It would still maintain the factor of using your own Pokémon to get past obstacles, and would still require at least some clever team building, while also allowing more freedom with actual moves. The other compromise would simply be to allow Pokémon to have field abilities for each HM they used to be able to learn. Honestly, this probably makes the most sense in the end, as it never made the most sense that a large swimming Pokémon needs to know Surf to allow a trainer to ride on it.

The problem with this though, is that it dumbs down the overworld. The benefit of HMs is that they really enhanced the exploration and puzzle solving, we lost that aspect of the gameplay the more they nerfed HMs. They definitely needed to do something about HMs, but moving them off the beaten path is a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the actual problem with the HM system. I think they should keep Poke Ride, but expand what Pokemon you can use with it. Essentially, make it work like Ranger's field abilities.

Yeah, that's another major problem, and one of the reasons why I'm just upset with Ride Pokémon, they did away with HMs, so the least they could do is bring back the full on HM puzzles now that you don't have people complaining about HMs anymore. It just kind of defeated the purpose of replacing HMs in the first place.
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
Please not more Kanto in the games. And if they are slapped on with ultra sun and moon it'll probably feel as dead as it did in HG and SS. I mean all you did was defeat the gyms and fight red, that was it.
 

Zipper4242

Bewear is the most powerful being in the universe.
I'm not sure if someone else said this but this is my two cents: What if we get to go to Kanto (several years after GSC) in USUM postgame? I mean, it'll satisfy genwunners/all the Kanto references, it makes sense with Ryuki in Vermillion Gym (which could have had a type change or a new gym leader in the years between GSC and USUM since we see a black belt standing there), it'll allow us to get Kanto forms without trading, and, most importantly, Lillie and Lusamine are there postgame.

IMO, BW2 and the region change was one of the best things to happen to the franchise, and, once I patched the game to actually give Kanto a decent difficulty curve (Sacred Gold), HGSS became my favorite games. I absolutely adore going back to a region and seeing what changed and what didn't, and, given the time span difference, if so much changed in three years between BW and BW2, it could be a different region as opposed to the flatness of FRLG/HGSS Kanto.

Maybe it'll be just for the switch edition (when and if it comes out) of USUM.
 

04n70n10

Well-Known Member
I recently played HG: Kanto was really a good post-league content and definitely NOT flat like it was in Gold/Silver.

But, like i said, it's really time-consuming to make another region (properly) in recent games (in the past it was a thing more possible to do). I think it's more possible to have something like sevii islands/Sinnoh's battle zone or an expansion of the current region like in BW2.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I recently played HG: Kanto was really a good post-league content and definitely NOT flat like it was in Gold/Silver.

But, like i said, it's really time-consuming to make another region (properly) in recent games (in the past it was a thing more possible to do). I think it's more possible to have something like sevii islands/Sinnoh's battle zone or an expansion of the current region like in BW2.

Even with HGSS' changes, Kanto still felt pretty flat. HGSS just added a bunch of stairs to various areas, but they didn't really make Kanto feel like it had any significant changes in elevation. Like, we've never seen an area like this in Kanto:

800px-Sinnoh_Route_208_DP.png


No dramatic changes in elevation, no paths crisscrossing above or below, the entire region is pretty much all on the same level, give or take a few stairs. These are things that the GBC games never really did (likely because of technological restraints) that make the region design feel a bit more realistic and modern. That's not really addressing the issue with Kanto being too flat all that much.

Now I don't expect them to go crazy making Kanto super mountainous, considering the urban and coastal nature of most of the region it probably wouldn't make sense to in every area. But it would make sense for some of the more mountainous areas to feel a little more like this. Like say, around the Mt. Moon and Rock Tunnel areas (also including Rt. 3, Rt. 4, Rt. 9, and Rt. 10).
 
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Erron Black

The Outlaw
In theory, Alolan forms are exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to see in a Safari Zone. And they're not just going to remove Alolan forms after these games, so they'll be made available outside of Alola at some point or another.

I never said they'd be removed. I'm saying they more than likely wouldn't be available in the 'theorized' Kanto revisit's regional dex. They could definitely make an appearance in other games' regional dexes, for sure. It's not hard to justify that. What I mean by this is these are Alolan adaptations of Kantonian Pokemon so it'd be unlikely to see them available in Kanto.
 

Swagga09

Well-Known Member
Hms are counterproductive and pointless

Why does a water type need to know surf to swim? Why does a pokemon with wings need to know fly?

Hope gamefreak keep them gone
 

i2i

Big Bad Wolf
I pretty much agree with the other posts that state why Kanto arc is not a hint for Kanto in USUM. The only thing could end being related to USUM is if Ash brings back with him one of his older Pokemon or one of his classmates catches a Pokemon and returns to Alola with it that could be a sign for one of these options:

A. a new form for that line
B. a new exclusive Z-move for that line
C. A and B
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Hms are counterproductive and pointless

Why does a water type need to know surf to swim? Why does a pokemon with wings need to know fly?

Hope gamefreak keep them gone

My personal theory has always been that HMs are a sort of equivalent to a driver's licence. Sure, you could ride on the back your Pokémon and do whatever the HM is, but the HM is way of regulating it for safety's sake and making sure only qualified trainers and Pokémon can do so. Think of learning the move as being like taking a driving class for the Pokémon.

I pretty much agree with the other posts that state why Kanto arc is not a hint for Kanto in USUM. The only thing could end being related to USUM is if Ash brings back with him one of his older Pokemon or one of his classmates catches a Pokemon and returns to Alola with it that could be a sign for one of these options:

A. a new form for that line
B. a new exclusive Z-move for that line
C. A and B

I don't know, even that would seem like a stretch. Of course, that's assuming that even happens in the first place, which seems unlikely. This seems like it's just going to be a standalone event for the sole purpose of celebration the anniversary. If that is the case, the odds of it having a lasting impact on either the show or the games is little at best.
 

future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
I never said they'd be removed. I'm saying they more than likely wouldn't be available in the 'theorized' Kanto revisit's regional dex. They could definitely make an appearance in other games' regional dexes, for sure. It's not hard to justify that. What I mean by this is these are Alolan adaptations of Kantonian Pokemon so it'd be unlikely to see them available in Kanto.

If they were to remake Kanto, whether it be a theorized second Region or a remake of the original games with updated everything, it would be extremely plausible to find Alolan Forms of the Kanto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands.
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
If we ever go back to Kanto, I expect a modified Safari Zone whose environment resembles Alola's so you can find the Alola forms.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
If they were to remake Kanto, whether it be a theorized second Region or a remake of the original games with updated everything, it would be extremely plausible to find Alolan Forms of the Kanto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands.

And why's that? Why would Pokémon specifically adapted to living in a specific region also appear that way on some random island chain in a different part of the world?
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
If they were to remake Kanto, whether it be a theorized second Region or a remake of the original games with updated everything, it would be extremely plausible to find Alolan Forms of the Kanto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands.

I'm saying it would be extremely unlikely to find them there at all because the only times we saw the Kantonian versions of the Alolan mons in SUMO were through the Tourist battles. Just because they're forms of Kantonian Pokemon doesn't mean they'll be catchable in that region.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I'm saying it would be extremely unlikely to find them there at all because the only times we saw the Kantonian versions of the Alolan mons in SUMO were through the Tourist battles. Just because they're forms of Kantonian Pokemon doesn't mean they'll be catchable in that region.

That doesn't mean they'll always handle it that way, it made sense for them to restrict the Kantonian forms from Alola because they were trying to promote the Alola forms and having them both would discourage people from trying the new Alola forms. In Kanto's case, the dex has severe balance issues and having both forms would be beneficial towards fixing that problem, so from a design standpoint it makes sense to include them while retaining the original Kantonian forms to keep that improved balance and for consistency.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
That doesn't mean they'll always handle it that way, it made sense for them to restrict the Kantonian forms from Alola because they were trying to promote the Alola forms and having them both would discourage people from trying the new Alola forms. In Kanto's case, the dex has severe balance issues and having both forms would be beneficial towards fixing that problem, so from a design standpoint it makes sense to include them while retaining the original Kantonian forms to keep that improved balance and for consistency.

From a design point it makes sense, but from an in-game and a logical point it doesn't. Why would Pokemon native to Kanto need to adapt to it? There's no reason for Alolan versions of Kantonian Pokemon to be encounterable in the wild in Kanto.

Plus they can always add Pokemon in from other Generations, most notably being Johto since they're neighbor regions.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
From a design point it makes sense, but from an in-game and a logical point it doesn't. Why would Pokemon native to Kanto need to adapt to it? There's no reason for Alolan versions of Kantonian Pokemon to be encounterable in the wild in Kanto.

I already mentioned ways they can handle that. They don't need to be catchable in regular Kanto routes to be obtainable in the game, having special encounter methods for Pokemon that are non-native to Kanto or in game trades would allow them to make the Alola forms obtainable without ruining the in game logic behind them. This is not an issue, they've come up with ways to address this in the past (such as the BW post game/BW2 expansion Pokemon being escaped transfer Pokemon or the ORAS post game Dexnav Pokemon having migrated to Hoenn as a result of the massive climate shift in the plot's climax).

Plus they can always add Pokemon in from other Generations, most notably being Johto since they're neighbor regions.

And in order to really fix balance issues, they're going to have to. In fact, they're going to need more than Johto Pokemon since even if they included all 251 Kanto and Johto Pokemon + their cross gen evos, Megas, and regional variants, they'd still have issues with Ghost because the only Ghost Pokemon in that bunch are Gastly/Haunter/Gengar, Misdreavus/Mismagius, and Alola Marowak. So ideally, they'll want Pokemon from various generations. Not just 1st gen. Not just 1st gen + related Pokemon. Not even 1st gen + 2nd gen + related Pokemon. They can't fix the balance period without some completely original 3rd-7th gen families thrown in.
 

future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
It is entirely plausible that Alolan Forms of Pokémon such as Vulpix and Sandshrew could easily be found in Ice Cave on Four Island.

So therefore, it is entirely plausible that GF could very easily insert some reason as to why some Pokémon on the Sevii Islands adapted over time.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
It is entirely plausible that Alolan Forms of Pokémon such as Vulpix and Sandshrew could easily be found in Ice Cave on Four Island.

So therefore, it is entirely plausible that GF could very easily insert some reason as to why some Pokémon on the Sevii Islands adapted over time.

It'd be kind of pointless to put them in the Sevii Islands. They're a post game mini region that's removed from Kanto proper, so putting them there wouldn't really help with balance.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
If I could pick any region to go to post-game, Kanto would be the last.
We've been there in R/B/Y, G/S/C, LG/FR, and HG/SS.
And I've had enough with the Kanto pandering. Kanto got the majority of Megas last generation, only Kanto Pokemon got Alolan formes.... Red and Blue came back but Lance didn't.

Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova could really use some love.
I'd honestly not bother playing postgame Kanto, I'd just leave my character in Alola and act like I can't go anywhere else.
 
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