Almighty Zard
He has returned.
my favorite moment is still when Ash had Pikachu use Electroweb to tie up Cradily, just because Cynthia and Diantha were shocked, but Leon's smiling, the different reactions in that moment are what seals it.
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Ash Heads Into Battle! VS Steven!! (1207)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
Sham
The Guardian of War
That could be a possibility. She’s already revealed her “secret weapon” so I wonder will she do it twice since Ash and Leon aren’t using the same gimmick. It would be interesting if she realized that Ash now knows she has Mega Evolution and decides to shake it up.
Mr.Munchlax
Great Ball Rank Trainer
Actually, they did have the title flash across the screen since I saw it during a livestream. You probably didn’t see it since the video you watched had to cut it out so YouTube didn’t take the video down since Z-move animations are easier to spot for copyright infringement
I wish May and Max made cameos, but assuming that Ash faces Leon in the final I'm expecting a tear jerker cameo heavy episode. Seeing Paul at home watching the battle warmed my heart. Seeing all of Ash's Pokemon at Oaks lab watching warmed my heart as well. I see you shiny Noctowl lol.
A lot of people will overlook it and laugh at Dracovish, but that fishious rend Metagross took did damage it and force Steven to withdraw Metagross early. I wish Dracovish would have lasted longer, but I had a feeling that he would be the fall guy in this battle lol. Gengar hitting that Will-O-Wisp was key in beating Aggron. Seeing Steven use Cradily was cool. I almost thought that maybe Cradily and Gengar would tie, but I was wrong. Cradily really shined.
Metagross vs Pikachu went how I expected. Mega Metagross dominated. Pikachu took a beating, and then out comes the Z-Move. Game. Set. Match.
I'm in the minority apparently, but I enjoyed the battle.
A lot of people will overlook it and laugh at Dracovish, but that fishious rend Metagross took did damage it and force Steven to withdraw Metagross early. I wish Dracovish would have lasted longer, but I had a feeling that he would be the fall guy in this battle lol. Gengar hitting that Will-O-Wisp was key in beating Aggron. Seeing Steven use Cradily was cool. I almost thought that maybe Cradily and Gengar would tie, but I was wrong. Cradily really shined.
Metagross vs Pikachu went how I expected. Mega Metagross dominated. Pikachu took a beating, and then out comes the Z-Move. Game. Set. Match.
I'm in the minority apparently, but I enjoyed the battle.
AuraKshatriya
Well-Known Member
She seemed pretty shocked by Ash using a Z-Move for some reason despite having watched his battle with Volkner.
Z-Moves in general are hard to predict because the Kahunas and Guardian Deities are in charge of their use, and there's no special unique trinket for them to easily hide - it's a Z-Ring or nothing. It'd be odd if Cynthia went to Alola and cleared the trials some time before Ash just returned there and he was never told, and if she was there before then logically she'd have already cleared all the trials and been mentioned to Ash when he first entered them.
Kommo'o is an argument for having gone there at some point for some reason though. If it's the same explanation as in Masters, she hatched it from an egg she got in Alola and trained it to the point she feels it's equal to Garchomp.
TheNewGuy
Well-Known Member
So, real champions don't attack their opponent, and then cry about losing?
Not sure what the purpose is behind this post but, uh, yes? Any action Iris takes is the action of a "real champion", as she literally, actually is.
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
I enjoyed it too, but the problem is many expect "more" out of these fights, or in some cases refuse to believe his current pokemon sans Pikachu should be fighting in this at all.
It's not the best battle, but it's not like other battles in the past haven't felt similar, ironically most of Ash's fights during AG, the hoenn/bf saga were like that, maybe not so much in pacing, but in terms of being beaten then winning with a good strike kind of like how Pikachu vs Mega Metagross went.
I think Dracovish did ok, if it was able to force Steven to recall Metagross after biting it once then i'd say that's something, better than doing nothing at all, and it can afford a loss no win at this point since that hadn't happened yet.
Twilight-Kun
Pokemon World Champion
Ah yes, the time-honored "the only way to win is not play" strategy
Very bold in a...uh...fighting competition
DayQuil95
Well-Known Member
Ash vs Roark, the first gym battle in Sinnoh with several unevolved Pokemon and an early-series Ash, had more intensity, development, strategy, and strength showcase, than any of these "Masters" 8 battles, and Vs Roark isn't even the best gym battle. Like, what is going with the writers? Isn't Yajima the same excellent writer that is hyped throughout the entire fandom as having written the best battles in the anime? So what is happening here, problems with production? Let me go through a few points on what makes these battles so dull and unbearable to watch, mainly with the hype the anime wants to give you.
1. The fields are dull, don't allow for any advanced strategy, and are the same generic thing. Look at leagues like Hoenn and Kalos, they all had different types of fields that allowed Ash and his rivals to pull some crazy strategies that were visually stunning and showed just how tremendously powerful the Pokemon battling is, from Sawyer's Aegislash literally slicing through a whole forest like butter, to Pikachu splashing a huge body of water in order to stop Tyranitar's Sandstorm and further power-up his electric moves, that is the kind of field that a Pokemon battle of such leagues should have, and if a bunch of dudes nowhere close to champions fighting in a league could have it, then why not the 8 strongest trainers in the world?
2. Choreography is middling. It's almost like they don't know what to do with certain types of Pokemon during a battle, in earlier series you would see even Torracat's bell having a considerable role to play during a battle, but here they insist on utilizing the same superficial aspects of a Pokemon while in a battle, and refuse to showcase any proper thinking and pre-planning when it comes to legitimately write the struggle, as in one course of action doesn't directly lead to another planned action that was intended to happen so the opponent could showcase a banger strategy, you want an example? Pikachu kicks a lot of wood into the sky, which Sawyer then reacts by ordering Aegislash to slice through the woods, sparking in Ash the idea to run through them, and pretending to attack Aegislash, who then changes form, which allows Ash to have Aegislash stuck in its attacking form, granting Pikachu the W via a direct Thunderbolt that decimates Aegislash.
In Journeys, however, Dracovish starts attacking Metagross, and both engage in a Psychic vs Fishious Rend clash, this sounds cool, will Dracovish use its tremendously powerful Jaws in combination with its also strong legs, which are actually noted characteristics from the species by the lore itself, in order suspend Metagross in the air and then try delivering another attack, causing Steven to come with some banger counter attack that completely cancels Ash's strategy, which in turn leads to Ash having to think out-of-the-box as to surpass the more experienced champion? No, Metagross uses Psychic, Dracovish has dropped away, fires a Water Gun which misses, and then Aggron decimates him... Cool, it's not like Ash is always in his top game when it comes to strategy, some Pokemon tend to job like that... But like, they then act like Cradily's Power Whip trapping Gengar for like 2 minutes straight is some type of ungodly strategy that Ash has never had to deal with, and they have the brilliant solution to have Ash do nothing other than a Sludge Bomb for these entire 2 minutes, other than try overpowering the clearly stronger Meteor Beam after all of that time, without any strategy in mind, bravo! They could easily have Gengar fire Sludge Bomb at the Power Whip in order to weaken it, as it's a Poison attack hitting a Grass part of Cradily, which in turn should be super-effective by anime logic, but no, let's just try overpowering Cradily and then take an L.
Ohoho boys, now it's getting interesting! Pikachu is going crazy against Cradily in one of its spectacular moments that showcase its agility, speed, and power, and this part was legitimately well done, in both terms of animation and choreograph- And there it goes again, Pikachu is getting its ass kicked by Mega Metagross and Ash can't think of any strategy to deal with a fast Metagross that is dodging Pikachu's attacks and has superior firepower, not like he had to face a Latios with a similar fighting style and 3 other Metagrosses before, right? Nah, let's just overpower the Mega Metagross entirely with 10MV, which for some reason the writers thought was brilliant to keep hidden like it was something unexpected and that Ash couldn't have used before Pikachu was beaten harder than Rocky Balboa fighting Clubber Lang for the first time in Rocky 3, the 10MV then weakens Metagross enough for it to be one-shot by Iron Tail... Alright, nice. Do you see what I'm talking about here? They don't seem to have any planned script in mind for the battles other than attacking, attacking, and attacking over and over again until they decide to one-shot the opponent, this feels like something straight out of the games, and I detest how they have been doing it ever since Ultra Class started, the anime was unique because it was a new take on the battling system of the game, something that could take inspiration from it and made it more unique by showing banger strategies that the player wasn't used to, this, Journeys, isn't the reason the anime is good for, this is just an utterly pathetic production that is basically the Sonic 2006 of the Pokemon anime when it comes to quality.
3. The constant appeal to fan service. I'm happy that they are finally choosing to give the fans a treat when it comes to older characters appearing and better connecting the world of Pokemon, but in practice, it's nothing more than a cheap way to try giving the episodes more substance, when the writers clearly know they're lacking in terms of writing, storytelling, and characters interactions, so they know the fans will take everything into their mouthes and swallow it whole, which is the reason for these 2 seconds frames of characters appearing every episode, they got a formula that is cheap production-wise, easy to create, and effective, and now they're capitalizing on it rather than try doing anything with proper effort, I love fan service, as long as it's done with a proper course of logic in mind, and not this garbage.
Enough ranting from my side, I don't want to further spread negativity in these forums about the anime, and if you like Journeys, then go on buddy, all power to you, I'm not here to try changing anyone's mind, and I'm not here to repeatedly **** on something I know other people like, so I will just give up on Journeys up until the Leon battle, which is where I will come back for the anime, gonna try focusing on other parts of the forum that seem more interesting than hitting the same wall over and over again, because it's not like we need more bashing on the anime than the fandom is already giving it... or do we?
1. The fields are dull, don't allow for any advanced strategy, and are the same generic thing. Look at leagues like Hoenn and Kalos, they all had different types of fields that allowed Ash and his rivals to pull some crazy strategies that were visually stunning and showed just how tremendously powerful the Pokemon battling is, from Sawyer's Aegislash literally slicing through a whole forest like butter, to Pikachu splashing a huge body of water in order to stop Tyranitar's Sandstorm and further power-up his electric moves, that is the kind of field that a Pokemon battle of such leagues should have, and if a bunch of dudes nowhere close to champions fighting in a league could have it, then why not the 8 strongest trainers in the world?
2. Choreography is middling. It's almost like they don't know what to do with certain types of Pokemon during a battle, in earlier series you would see even Torracat's bell having a considerable role to play during a battle, but here they insist on utilizing the same superficial aspects of a Pokemon while in a battle, and refuse to showcase any proper thinking and pre-planning when it comes to legitimately write the struggle, as in one course of action doesn't directly lead to another planned action that was intended to happen so the opponent could showcase a banger strategy, you want an example? Pikachu kicks a lot of wood into the sky, which Sawyer then reacts by ordering Aegislash to slice through the woods, sparking in Ash the idea to run through them, and pretending to attack Aegislash, who then changes form, which allows Ash to have Aegislash stuck in its attacking form, granting Pikachu the W via a direct Thunderbolt that decimates Aegislash.
In Journeys, however, Dracovish starts attacking Metagross, and both engage in a Psychic vs Fishious Rend clash, this sounds cool, will Dracovish use its tremendously powerful Jaws in combination with its also strong legs, which are actually noted characteristics from the species by the lore itself, in order suspend Metagross in the air and then try delivering another attack, causing Steven to come with some banger counter attack that completely cancels Ash's strategy, which in turn leads to Ash having to think out-of-the-box as to surpass the more experienced champion? No, Metagross uses Psychic, Dracovish has dropped away, fires a Water Gun which misses, and then Aggron decimates him... Cool, it's not like Ash is always in his top game when it comes to strategy, some Pokemon tend to job like that... But like, they then act like Cradily's Power Whip trapping Gengar for like 2 minutes straight is some type of ungodly strategy that Ash has never had to deal with, and they have the brilliant solution to have Ash do nothing other than a Sludge Bomb for these entire 2 minutes, other than try overpowering the clearly stronger Meteor Beam after all of that time, without any strategy in mind, bravo! They could easily have Gengar fire Sludge Bomb at the Power Whip in order to weaken it, as it's a Poison attack hitting a Grass part of Cradily, which in turn should be super-effective by anime logic, but no, let's just try overpowering Cradily and then take an L.
Ohoho boys, now it's getting interesting! Pikachu is going crazy against Cradily in one of its spectacular moments that showcase its agility, speed, and power, and this part was legitimately well done, in both terms of animation and choreograph- And there it goes again, Pikachu is getting its ass kicked by Mega Metagross and Ash can't think of any strategy to deal with a fast Metagross that is dodging Pikachu's attacks and has superior firepower, not like he had to face a Latios with a similar fighting style and 3 other Metagrosses before, right? Nah, let's just overpower the Mega Metagross entirely with 10MV, which for some reason the writers thought was brilliant to keep hidden like it was something unexpected and that Ash couldn't have used before Pikachu was beaten harder than Rocky Balboa fighting Clubber Lang for the first time in Rocky 3, the 10MV then weakens Metagross enough for it to be one-shot by Iron Tail... Alright, nice. Do you see what I'm talking about here? They don't seem to have any planned script in mind for the battles other than attacking, attacking, and attacking over and over again until they decide to one-shot the opponent, this feels like something straight out of the games, and I detest how they have been doing it ever since Ultra Class started, the anime was unique because it was a new take on the battling system of the game, something that could take inspiration from it and made it more unique by showing banger strategies that the player wasn't used to, this, Journeys, isn't the reason the anime is good for, this is just an utterly pathetic production that is basically the Sonic 2006 of the Pokemon anime when it comes to quality.
3. The constant appeal to fan service. I'm happy that they are finally choosing to give the fans a treat when it comes to older characters appearing and better connecting the world of Pokemon, but in practice, it's nothing more than a cheap way to try giving the episodes more substance, when the writers clearly know they're lacking in terms of writing, storytelling, and characters interactions, so they know the fans will take everything into their mouthes and swallow it whole, which is the reason for these 2 seconds frames of characters appearing every episode, they got a formula that is cheap production-wise, easy to create, and effective, and now they're capitalizing on it rather than try doing anything with proper effort, I love fan service, as long as it's done with a proper course of logic in mind, and not this garbage.
Enough ranting from my side, I don't want to further spread negativity in these forums about the anime, and if you like Journeys, then go on buddy, all power to you, I'm not here to try changing anyone's mind, and I'm not here to repeatedly **** on something I know other people like, so I will just give up on Journeys up until the Leon battle, which is where I will come back for the anime, gonna try focusing on other parts of the forum that seem more interesting than hitting the same wall over and over again, because it's not like we need more bashing on the anime than the fandom is already giving it... or do we?
Aryash Bajaj
Say I'm fat again!
Very good point. The attacks barely have a noticeable impact on surroundings. Pikachu using Z move vs Tapu Koko ripped the ground. Infernape blew up the battlefield to remove TSpikes. Ash Greninja cracked the ground around MCX's feet to stop it from using Blast Burn. Apart from Infernape blowing up the field, these things were not treated specially and were just one of the many ways terrian was used to highlight intensity/ There are many more examples but JN is clearly lacking a major part of battles.
TheNewGuy
Well-Known Member
Well she's standing there and has commanded her Pokemon to use a move, so she has. Also does nothing to dispel the previous point.
Not sure what you have against Iris or what this is about but this is the wrong discussion.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
>People arguing over whether Steven, Iris or Wallace was Ash's first win against a Champion
> Me knowing Kukui with Tapu Koko was the first
> Me knowing Kukui with Tapu Koko was the first
Kaye Cruiser
Well-Known Member
This fight was pretty great with a nice back and forth at every turn and 10M Volt TB pretty much worked exactly like I was thinking it should. The traditional helm splitter Iron Tail to KO Metagross, like every other time, was a nice touch. Liked Mezase playing as Ash's big victory theme, too.
Good episode. Enjoyed it very much. And, pfft. C'mon. Like Pikachu was ever gonna lose to a Metagross, Mega or otherwise. Steven's fate was sealed the moment he sent it out first instead of saving it for last and he let Dracovish get that hit in.
Good episode. Enjoyed it very much. And, pfft. C'mon. Like Pikachu was ever gonna lose to a Metagross, Mega or otherwise. Steven's fate was sealed the moment he sent it out first instead of saving it for last and he let Dracovish get that hit in.
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Almighty Zard
He has returned.
there's always going to be one aspect of a battle that makes someone angry, be it animation, pacing, or story telling.
masdog
What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Initial episode thoughts - It was good. I’ll wait to comment more until I have a better understanding.
It feels like a lot of posters blame the anime staff for breaks when its not usually in their control.
I wasn’t intending to single that break out. I misread @Kuzehiko’s original post. It was 7AM my time when I posted that, and I only had 3 hours of sleep last night and no caffeine.
It feels like a lot of posters blame the anime staff for breaks when its not usually in their control.
Twilight-Kun
Pokemon World Champion
Drake: Am I a joke to you?>People arguing over whether Steven, Iris or Wallace was Ash's first win against a Champion
> Me knowing Kukui with Tapu Koko was the first
Except she didn't attack her opponent
Ya know, that thing you need to do to win?
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
That is.......acceptable
TheNewGuy
Well-Known Member
Still not relevant to the point. Happy to do this all day.
Illusio
No words, only rage
She's the youngest Champion of the bunch, tied with Ash, and just had a big loss in a tournament she wanted to go farther in. Why would she not cry? Ash is the same age and still got visually upset when he lost his tournaments and nearly lost against Hau, why can't Iris who just had her first?So, real champions don't attack their opponent, and then cry about losing?
Her crying doesn't make her stop being a Champion. She has some growing to do, but she's ten, she's allowed to.
Blue Saturday
Violet Prince❤️
It was such a missed opportunity to not see the organic fossil Pokémon face off against the one that is essentially Frankenstein.
Iris finding Unonoragon cute but Yuradle cringey was a cute little parallel.
Iris finding Unonoragon cute but Yuradle cringey was a cute little parallel.