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Ash, Iris & Trip's Final Battle (753)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Rival Destinies' started by Serebii, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. J Ken

    J Ken RAVE

    Yeah it honestly sucks because Iris isn't in the league yet they chose to focus so heavily on her over Ash.
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  2. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    This was a good episode. It was nice to see Krokorok evolve.
  3. TurtwigFan1

    TurtwigFan1 burning it down

    Great episode to finish the Junior Cup! Sad to see Dragonite lose control after seeming to bond so well with Iris. Looking forward to seeing how Iris and Dragonite develop their friendship over the next few episodes! Georgia and Burgundy were particularly funny during this arc, they're a combination I love to see together.
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  4. Wow, I really feel sorry for Ash not landing one attack.
    I mean, if (this is a massive IF) this was the game, Trip would be those NPC's who annoyingly use something to ether increase their evasion or speed so you have trouble landing any attack.
  5. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    It was similar to BW042 - Ash gets to the final of a 16 trainer competition only to loose to a rival who up to this point in the series has shown Ash very little respect as a trainer. I will make the following observations.

    Ash vs Iris
    Ash has finally beaten Iris in an official battle. It sure took long enough. I would like to think that it would mean that Iris will have to finally admit that Ash is not just a little kid and to stop acting so smug towards him. But it's not really like that because the main reason Iris lost is because Dragonite stopped listening to her. The battle was more a focus on Iris/Dragonite than Ash vs Iris. I liked the fact that Ash was sympathetic towards Iris and didn't rub it in her face. It shows maturity. She did not give him the same grace in the club battle episode. I actually feel very sorry for Iris particulary when Burgundy and Georgia were making fun of her - that's a pity because I wanted Ash's defeat of Iris to have a little bit of vindication in it.

    Arguably the problem is that Ash should have beaten Iris back in the first BW series at the Club battle finale - it should not have taken this long for him to do so and Ash should have been given as cleaner win as Iris had. The fact that the outcome of this battle was at least party due to 1. Krokodile's evolution and 2. Dragonite not listening gives room to question the outcome. In short Ash is a much better trainer than Iris but the fact that the loss was due to dragonite not obeying kind of prevents that fact being displayed.

    Ash vs Trip
    This was just bad. Ash had a massive type advantage over Trip yet he still lost. And yet in BW042 he lost because of a type disadvantage - it's not excatly consistent. I'm starting to wonder if the writer just didn't like Ash. His performance in Unova is mediocre compared with other regions. It's not exactly fair that Ash lost to Trip when Trip is a much less experienced trainer and had been rather rude to Ash in previous episodes when all Ash was trying to do was be his friend. At least Trip wasn't mean to Ash this time - He was just silent. I don't see what's so significant about Trip winning anyway - It just turns the junior cup into a filler arch just like Club Battle. Ash hasn't really gained anything from it.

    Ash compared with Serena
    I can't remember the name of the episode but in XY Serena's first performance sees her suffering a massive humilation due to her Fennekin tripping over a cord and ends with the emotional scene of her bursting into tears and cutting her hair. Rewatching this episode makes that ending seem a little bit silly. Here Ash and his Pokémon despite having worked much harder and put in more effort than Serena ever had suffers a crushing loss to a trainer with less experience and who was rude to Ash at every meeting. Yet we see no crying or hair cutting from Ash - nor did we see it in BW042. Why? Same goes for Pikachu.

    It's sad really because throughout BW Ash and Pikachu do everything right and really do try to do their best yet it's never enough. And Pikachu looses to opponents it should never have lost to. Serena???

    Overall I'm giving this episode 8/10 because it's still a very good episode even if it didn't do what I would have liked it's still decent. And at least it was Pignite who took the beating and not Pikachu. Personally I think Ash should have won the Club Battle tournament and loose to Iris here - Then Iris becomes the one who looses to Trip.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  6. 04n70n10

    04n70n10 Well-Known Member

    Why? simply most of serena trainings are clearly offscreen. That's all. Like ash many times in other series, so many think that ash doesn't training enough his pokemon for the same reason. sometimes writers show the work and training, sometimes not. Like in the last pokemon performance for serena, we dont see her "training" for make pokepuff before, but all in a flashback that show an "offscreen" moment. Even in the "hair-cut" episode, there is a brief flashback.

    honestly too training episodes, even if they build-up the "climax" for the final competition, aren't needed every time, tend to be repetitive and boring. Instead IMO sometimes are better other things like serena confronting her mother or her bursting into tears and cutting her hair, this was a very good idea and a high moment in the anime.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
    Jerimiyah and FullmetalJackie like this.
  7. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I agree with what your saying. There isn't a need for constanlty having training episodes. The mix up is reasonable but I think the show is better when it focuses on the Pokémon rather than the human characters.

    I was simply to drawing attention to the fact that throughtout best wishes and certainly here Ash puts everything in but it's never enough. He made it all the way to the final but lost to Serperior without landing a single hit despite his type advantage. Same in the Club Battle. Ash's loss in both cases is considerably more heartbreaking than Serena's in XY (her first appearence did she honestly expect to win) yet Ash is not given the dramatic scenes of depression that Serena is. Why?

    Why did the XY writers try to turn Serena into a massive Woobie over one loss that was entirely her and Fennekin's fault and yet give Ash the most unfair losses in BW - worse than that they did it to Pikachu also. Similarly if Ash is able to recover so quickly after his loss to Trip - he was upset but Dawn and Cilan cheer him up - does it not make Serena's whole crying and cutting her hair scene seem just too pathetic to be take seriously despite it being a major point in her development. That was the main point of my comparison.
  8. Pikachu979

    Pikachu979 Sinnoh Champion

    Well this was a ok episode Ash gets his revenge on Iris in this tournament but then lost to trip after which is unfortunate.
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  9. Gillachu

    Gillachu Banned

    Lol, revenge? Him winning here wasn't revenge. Y'all act as if he hated Iris all this time just because of that previous loss...
  10. Pikachu979

    Pikachu979 Sinnoh Champion

    Sorry if I made it seem that way. I didnt mean to make it seem like he hated her i just meant he got a win over her thats all
    FullmetalJackie likes this.
  11. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I agree with your sentiment but I don't think it's right to call it revenge. Ash and Iris aren't enemies they're friends; they're not trying to get on on each other. My personal thoughts are that this and the previous battle are mixed up. Ash should have won the first battle and the tournament and Iris should have won this one mainly because Ash was using his strongest Pokémon Pikachu there, whereas Krokodile is a lot more inexperienced. If not a later battle should have rematched Pikachu and Excardill and had Pikachu in the same manner Pikachu has beaten the majority of his defeating opponents in rematches during the XY series. It would have made more sense for Iris to win this battle, because in the first contest she was relatively inexperienced as a trainer, compared with Ash who was in a much stronger position. By this stage in the series she had actually been shown to have trained her Pokémon to a higher level.

    The problem with this episode is any sort of 'revenge' or whatever you want to call it (I know it's not revenge I'm just using the term for lack of a better word) is blunted by the fact that Ash lost so badly to Trip in the final. Arguably Ash shouldn't have lost to Trip either for two reasons. The first is because using Pignite he should have had the type advantage. This is the reason everybody subscribes Iris's victory to in the first battle. If a type advantage can benefit Iris as much as it did against Pikachu who is much stronger than Excadrill, it should benefit Pignite who is either equal to or slightly stronger than Serperior. The second is because it makes the entire 'Junior Cup' arch pointless. This is the third competition Ash's been in, taking up four to five episodes and he still failed to come higher than 2nd place. What exactly has been achieved by this other than a few filler episodes full of battles and a couple of cut scenes of Team Rocket preparing 'Operation tempest.' Having Ash loose to a less experienced trainer for a second time damages him as a character as it makes him look less competent that he actually is or should be, the alleged reboot notwitstanding.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  12. Pikachu979

    Pikachu979 Sinnoh Champion

    I didn't really mean revenge in a malicious way. I didn't expect people to take it that way. I meant that they were even but if there is any confusion for my poor choice of words I apologize.
  13. Mrs. Oreo

    Mrs. Oreo Banned

    I liked seeing Ash's Krokorok evolve against Iris and Dragonite cuz Krookodile's design is so cool ha ha. I was impressed when Krookodile won and I was expecting Ash's Pignite to defeat Trip's Serperior, but o well. :]
  14. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    Meh, Iris deserved to win and she only lost to appease Ash's fans. Trip winning against Ash made me livid, though. His habit of humiliating Ash in every battle had gotten old.
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  15. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    The highlight of this episode was when Satoshi's Waruvile evolved into Waruvial and dominated Iris's Kairyu, which was satisfying because Kairyu needed to taste the bitterness of defeat for once. Shooti winning against Satoshi was expected, unfortunately. Jalorda was clearly much stronger than Chaoboo.
    Jerimiyah and FullmetalJackie like this.
  16. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    I don't see how Iris winning or losing here had anything to do with Ash fans but more of fans of the show in general. It made no sense for her to even be that far going up against two ice type pokemon to face Ash again just to lose. She should have lost to her rival not Ash.
  17. Yeah I wish she did as well. It could have at least help Iris's character development and bond with her dragonite and set up a closure battle against Georgia near the end of BW with her beating Georgia with her obedient Dragonite.
  18. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    She lost to appease the Ash fans who kept *****ing about her beating him in BW's first tournament. And please, since when do Dragons need to fail against Ice types 100% of the time?
  19. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    None. But she defeat two of them when it was disobedient and lost to Ash's just evolve crock when it finally decided to listened. Very odd indeed.
  20. Alloutℯ

    Alloutℯ Banned

    Ash had a great line of stupidity in this episode - telling Pignite that it had the type advantage over Serperior and then immediately using Tackle, the only move Pignite has that isn't super-effective. Of course considering Serperior was somehow fast enough to almost teleport out of the way, it doesn't really matter.
    Jerimiyah likes this.

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