Rei-chan101
Member
Both battles are regarded as some of the greatest of all time and have alot of other similarities but which one is superior?
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Ash vs Paul or Ash vs Kukui?
- Thread starter Rei-chan101
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Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
Ash vs Paul.
As great as Ash vs Kukui was, the lack of stakes takes away some of the appeal (not that a battle needs to be an “end all, be all” to be good). Paul also manages to make more of a lasting impact on Ash in DP than Kukui did in SM. It shows when he’s using the same team from their initial full battle to redeem themselves. A lot of people besides Ash and Paul have been a part of their rivalry so it’s just as intense for them as it is for the audience. Finally, I felt as though Paul’s team felt more challenging to Ash than Kukui’s.
Nostalgic bias? Probably. Though Torracat’s evolution gives vs Kukui a lot of weight for me lol
As great as Ash vs Kukui was, the lack of stakes takes away some of the appeal (not that a battle needs to be an “end all, be all” to be good). Paul also manages to make more of a lasting impact on Ash in DP than Kukui did in SM. It shows when he’s using the same team from their initial full battle to redeem themselves. A lot of people besides Ash and Paul have been a part of their rivalry so it’s just as intense for them as it is for the audience. Finally, I felt as though Paul’s team felt more challenging to Ash than Kukui’s.
Nostalgic bias? Probably. Though Torracat’s evolution gives vs Kukui a lot of weight for me lol
Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
Ash vs Kukui for me.
I always thought Ash vs. Paul was one of the weaker full battles in the series. It always bothered me that only two of Paul's Pokemon got wins(I know Aggron and Gastrodon were sacrificial lambs, but still)
I always thought Ash vs. Paul was one of the weaker full battles in the series. It always bothered me that only two of Paul's Pokemon got wins(I know Aggron and Gastrodon were sacrificial lambs, but still)
Ash vs. Paul.
From the lack of stakes with Ash vs. Kukui, to Ash vs. Paul concluding a narrative that started at the front of the series, it's overall the superior battle. I also think Ash vs. Kukui was hurt by shoving Tapu Koko in at the last second, and it shows as Tomioka wrote Parts 1-3 and then Matsui Part 4. For a battle that was supposed to be about family, it kind of ruined its own mission by shoving in something unrelated that should have been its own thing.
Essentially, Ash vs. Paul is better not just because of its tactics but because it is the culmination of its story leading to a point, while Ash vs. Kukui self-defeats its own purpose and is neutered in intensity by having no stakes, and thus not mattering if Ash wins or not.
From the lack of stakes with Ash vs. Kukui, to Ash vs. Paul concluding a narrative that started at the front of the series, it's overall the superior battle. I also think Ash vs. Kukui was hurt by shoving Tapu Koko in at the last second, and it shows as Tomioka wrote Parts 1-3 and then Matsui Part 4. For a battle that was supposed to be about family, it kind of ruined its own mission by shoving in something unrelated that should have been its own thing.
Essentially, Ash vs. Paul is better not just because of its tactics but because it is the culmination of its story leading to a point, while Ash vs. Kukui self-defeats its own purpose and is neutered in intensity by having no stakes, and thus not mattering if Ash wins or not.
Zoruagible
Lover of underrated characters
Ash vs Paul.
Paul was an actual good character for one, the Pokemon had all appeared before, and the finale was perfect. Ash finally overcame Paul and they both became better trainers because of it
Tapu Koko getting shoved in instead of getting it's own episode, and Ash not being the one to showcase Tapu-Z was just awful writing. Not to mention another Alain situation where they just pull Pokemon out of the character's ass. The only good part was Incineroar happening, but that should have happened far earlier.
Paul was an actual good character for one, the Pokemon had all appeared before, and the finale was perfect. Ash finally overcame Paul and they both became better trainers because of it
Tapu Koko getting shoved in instead of getting it's own episode, and Ash not being the one to showcase Tapu-Z was just awful writing. Not to mention another Alain situation where they just pull Pokemon out of the character's ass. The only good part was Incineroar happening, but that should have happened far earlier.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Ash vs Kukui
As much as I loved ash vs Paul and DP in general, I'll have to go with Ash vs Kukui. All of ash's Pokemon got to shine in that battle (yes even lycanroc) instead of Pokemon getting shafted for infernape in ash vs Paul (I get that it was for story reasons but still). Also for me Ash vs Kukui was Ash's peak as a trainer and it had two amazing climatic battles (Torracat vs Incineroar and Pikachu vs Tapu Koko). Ash vs Paul may have had higher stakes but these things makes ash vs Kukui > Ash vs Paul for me. Also the animation was so good in ash vs kukui
As much as I loved ash vs Paul and DP in general, I'll have to go with Ash vs Kukui. All of ash's Pokemon got to shine in that battle (yes even lycanroc) instead of Pokemon getting shafted for infernape in ash vs Paul (I get that it was for story reasons but still). Also for me Ash vs Kukui was Ash's peak as a trainer and it had two amazing climatic battles (Torracat vs Incineroar and Pikachu vs Tapu Koko). Ash vs Paul may have had higher stakes but these things makes ash vs Kukui > Ash vs Paul for me. Also the animation was so good in ash vs kukui
Leonhart
Imagineer
Satoshi versus Shinji is my vote. I just felt that it had the most build-up out of the two options, and overall better execution. There was proper tension during that match, and the writers having three episodes to work with really helped. My only gripes about the match were some of Shinji's Pokemon choices.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Is this a joke?
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Considering you probably haven't even watched ash vs Kukui and you're a DP fanboy in general, I'm not surprised by that shade
Sceptile Leaf Blade
Nighttime Guardian
Ash vs Kukui for me. Way more fun and with two trainers that both actually want to make it a fun battle and enjoy it. Kukui and Ash bounce off each other more naturally to create excitement, while Paul is just too pre-occupied with being an arrogant narcistic jerk to make that interaction interesting. Ash vs Paul also cuts away to Paul's brother way too often in an attempt to make Paul look powerful by making his brother talk bullshit on him. Kukui doesn't need others spouting nonsense about him to appear strong, he appears strong because he actually battles well.
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PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Man people got low standards,when it comes to balance and strategy Ash vs Paul @ Sinnoh League is #1.DP Ash showed the most strategy out of all the versions of Ash and Paul is literally the most skilled trainer in the entire series.Ash vs Kukui is decent I guess but would I call it the greatest battle?No.I rate battles on tactics and how balanced they are.
For a full battle I was disappointed by Ash vs Kukui for the fact that it's being considered the greatest pokemon battle in the entire series.But yet again it's apart of the worst series in Sun & Moon,the same series where people praised Ash vs Guzma so much.SM fans claimed it was better than Ash vs Katie and Ash vs Conway which obviously wasn't the case.I know people love hyping up something just because it's new or more recent but that doesn't always mean it will be better than what was shown in the past.Give it 5 years and see if you still think it's the greatest.
For a full battle I was disappointed by Ash vs Kukui for the fact that it's being considered the greatest pokemon battle in the entire series.But yet again it's apart of the worst series in Sun & Moon,the same series where people praised Ash vs Guzma so much.SM fans claimed it was better than Ash vs Katie and Ash vs Conway which obviously wasn't the case.I know people love hyping up something just because it's new or more recent but that doesn't always mean it will be better than what was shown in the past.Give it 5 years and see if you still think it's the greatest.
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Rei-chan101
Member
I knew the reaction towards Ash vs Kukui wasn't that positive here compared to anywhere else but damn.
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
People mostly liked Ash vs Kukui here. Everyone makes it so they argue about which season is better for the umpteenth time instead respectfully debating the topic at hand
ash&charizardfan
Humans are tools
Ash vs Paul was better battle whereas kukui was much tougher opponent since he was strongest trainer in alola and much stronger than paul.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
^Imagine thinking Ash vs Katie or Ash vs Conway was better than Ash vs Kukui LOL. And people talk about standards here 
I could understand people placing ash vs Paul above but claiming that Ash vs Kukui is ****, SM is worst series and the fans who like it have low standards is just straight up bs and idiotic
I could understand people placing ash vs Paul above but claiming that Ash vs Kukui is ****, SM is worst series and the fans who like it have low standards is just straight up bs and idiotic
Dragalge
"Orange" Magical Girl
Yeah hardly anyone is saying they dislike the Kukui battle. Faaaaar from it. They just prefer Paul's more!
At least these battles, the Team Flare arc, and the third Brandon battle all ended their respective series in a nice manner (even if the latter hasn't aged well lol). Whereas BW's climax was a bunch of filler islands...
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Ash vs Paul of course. Ash vs Paul for me was a battle from DP002 until DP188, like everything they went through as trainers, their differences everything up until point of SL battle. Ash vs Paul was felt like hero vs big boss fight.
Ash vs Alain is for me second best because Alain wasn't really Ash's friend, he was more just thrilled to battle Ash.
And there goes Ash vs Kukui.
Sidenote: if Ash battled Gladion in 6 on 6, that battle wouldn't beat Ash vs Paul but would beat Ash vs Alain.
Only battle that would surpass Ash vs Paul is if Ash meets as bad as or worse person than Paul. That's why Paul is the best rival(Gary would be second if he appeared more...),Gladion is neutral. He is not complete opposite of Ash like Paul and Gary but he is not like Sawyer, Morrison. I'd say that Gladion is my second favorite rival. That's why Silver from the games is the best rival(Blue would be second).. I like rivals who are kinda of evil, unlike rivals who are like: Hi Ash, I like you, you're amazing, you're great! etc.
Ash vs Alain is for me second best because Alain wasn't really Ash's friend, he was more just thrilled to battle Ash.
And there goes Ash vs Kukui.
Sidenote: if Ash battled Gladion in 6 on 6, that battle wouldn't beat Ash vs Paul but would beat Ash vs Alain.
Only battle that would surpass Ash vs Paul is if Ash meets as bad as or worse person than Paul. That's why Paul is the best rival(Gary would be second if he appeared more...),Gladion is neutral. He is not complete opposite of Ash like Paul and Gary but he is not like Sawyer, Morrison. I'd say that Gladion is my second favorite rival. That's why Silver from the games is the best rival(Blue would be second).. I like rivals who are kinda of evil, unlike rivals who are like: Hi Ash, I like you, you're amazing, you're great! etc.
Poke'fan68
Well-Known Member
Ash vs Kukui is better since unlike Ash vs Paul. All of Ash's Pokemon got to show how strong they were. Another thing Ash vs Kukui has above Ash vs Paul is that unlike Paul who only had two Pokemon who did damage to Ash's team all of Kukui's Pokemon got to show there strength even Empoleon who didn't get a win forced Ash to switch out Pikachu. Lucario had a intense battle vs.
Naganadel And Tapu Koko had a epic z move battle vs Pikachu. The biggest problem with Ash vs Paul for me is that Paul didn't use the Pokemon he constantly beat Ash with instead he used 5 random Pokemon only keeping Electivire, I wouldn't have mind Paul replacing 1 or 2 Pokemon but not 5 Ash's Battle vs Paul would have been my all time favorite if Paul would have used his Pokemon he used to always beat Ash but because he used 5 random Pokemon. Ash vs Paul it's just good to me not great good. I think Ash vs Paul had a good rivalry but there last battle wasn't as good as it should have been
Naganadel And Tapu Koko had a epic z move battle vs Pikachu. The biggest problem with Ash vs Paul for me is that Paul didn't use the Pokemon he constantly beat Ash with instead he used 5 random Pokemon only keeping Electivire, I wouldn't have mind Paul replacing 1 or 2 Pokemon but not 5 Ash's Battle vs Paul would have been my all time favorite if Paul would have used his Pokemon he used to always beat Ash but because he used 5 random Pokemon. Ash vs Paul it's just good to me not great good. I think Ash vs Paul had a good rivalry but there last battle wasn't as good as it should have been
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